Does anyone make a HB with mismatched coils....
- Thread starter gimmieinfo
- Start date
Dave Locher
New member
Re: Does anyone make a HB with mismatched coils....
Then i think you are down to buying an EQ pedal, replacing the pickup, or your proposed surgery. I assume you don't want an eq pedal, and you already said no replacement, so start unwinding that sucker. I will be very curious about your results.
Then i think you are down to buying an EQ pedal, replacing the pickup, or your proposed surgery. I assume you don't want an eq pedal, and you already said no replacement, so start unwinding that sucker. I will be very curious about your results.
blueman335
Mojo's Minions
Re: Does anyone make a HB with mismatched coils....
In the Fred I had, there was a big difference in resistance, don't remember the details, but one was something like 2K more than the other. Didn't notice the wire gauge.
In the Fred I had, there was a big difference in resistance, don't remember the details, but one was something like 2K more than the other. Didn't notice the wire gauge.
Teleplayer
Active member
Re: Does anyone make a HB with mismatched coils....
Yes I measure 1.4k to 1.5k. Also my estimation of the turns might not be exactly right. I have two Freds with resistance as follows:
Old Fred. Bridge coil = 6.02k, Inside coil = 4.52k
2016 Fred. Bridge coil = 6.05k, Inside coil = 4.65k
What resistance would you expect with 5,700 turns of 42awg, or 43awg?
Yes I measure 1.4k to 1.5k. Also my estimation of the turns might not be exactly right. I have two Freds with resistance as follows:
Old Fred. Bridge coil = 6.02k, Inside coil = 4.52k
2016 Fred. Bridge coil = 6.05k, Inside coil = 4.65k
What resistance would you expect with 5,700 turns of 42awg, or 43awg?
gimmieinfo
Active member
Re: Does anyone make a HB with mismatched coils....
I believe i will, tho i'm in no hurry with other things on my plate. But eventually i'm going to. Not sure what i want to unwind it to tho....anyone have opinions on how much i can go before it might become something no one would want to hear? They are 7k/per coil so I suppose I'd have to go down to probably 4k in order to decrease output a good amount.
I believe i will, tho i'm in no hurry with other things on my plate. But eventually i'm going to. Not sure what i want to unwind it to tho....anyone have opinions on how much i can go before it might become something no one would want to hear? They are 7k/per coil so I suppose I'd have to go down to probably 4k in order to decrease output a good amount.
PicoRiveraTele
New member
Re: Does anyone make a HB with mismatched coils....
Here's the actual patent https://www.google.com/patents/US4501185
Here's the actual patent https://www.google.com/patents/US4501185
PicoRiveraTele
New member
Re: Does anyone make a HB with mismatched coils....
Pretty much what you think will happen will happen. You reduce the inductance by some amount, so the pickup will become brighter, the same as if both coils had been underwound, but the difference here is that he coil that you take the winds away from will contribute less voltage than the coil you leave alone. It makes a bigger difference which coil you choose to underwind for the bridge pickup than it does for the neck pickup, since the harmonics change more noticeably the closer the pickup/coil is to the bridge of the guitar.
Pretty much what you think will happen will happen. You reduce the inductance by some amount, so the pickup will become brighter, the same as if both coils had been underwound, but the difference here is that he coil that you take the winds away from will contribute less voltage than the coil you leave alone. It makes a bigger difference which coil you choose to underwind for the bridge pickup than it does for the neck pickup, since the harmonics change more noticeably the closer the pickup/coil is to the bridge of the guitar.
Discharged
New member
Re: Does anyone make a HB with mismatched coils....
/Peter
The DC readings of the Freds indicate 6,000 turns of #42AWG min-nom wire and #43AWG max-nom wire in both the old and the newer one.
/Peter
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gimmieinfo
Active member
Re: Does anyone make a HB with mismatched coils....
Did it. Unwound the bridge side coil to 5k from 7.4k. The result wasn't great. I accomplished 2 things i wanted, more brightness when i roll down the volume and a more harmonically complex tone when on 10 with OD. It does much of what the 59/custom hybrid does in that latter regard. What it didn't do was lower the output to a degree thats even notable. And it just made the overall tone and feel not "right" for lack of a better description. So the good means nothing with the bad. Next step will be to unwind the other coil to the same 5k, maybe 4 and unwind the other one more too so they;re both 4k for a 8k pickup. I just wonder tho, i never hear of lower output HB's with ceramic so i wonder if theres a negative reason for that. And the mag shape is not like typical so it would be hard to fit a alnico in there. Anyways,m worse comes to worse i have another stock one if i want to go with that. I'll tell you this tho.....the way it is right now it breaks into feedback at the drop of a hat even without much gain and at low volume ! It's crazy. This along with my experience with the 59/custom makes me think this whole unbalanced coil thing is a matter of causing havok with a humbucker and must be designed just right to make it work. Even the duncan seems on the verge of being not right but just manages to keep from going off the deep end, if that makes any sense. With balanced coils it seems most any design is usable and tamer. But the unbalancing act seems to bring some unique goodness to the table but along with it some bad things, and the trick is finding the right balance that allows the good while keeping the bad down to a negligible degree.
Did it. Unwound the bridge side coil to 5k from 7.4k. The result wasn't great. I accomplished 2 things i wanted, more brightness when i roll down the volume and a more harmonically complex tone when on 10 with OD. It does much of what the 59/custom hybrid does in that latter regard. What it didn't do was lower the output to a degree thats even notable. And it just made the overall tone and feel not "right" for lack of a better description. So the good means nothing with the bad. Next step will be to unwind the other coil to the same 5k, maybe 4 and unwind the other one more too so they;re both 4k for a 8k pickup. I just wonder tho, i never hear of lower output HB's with ceramic so i wonder if theres a negative reason for that. And the mag shape is not like typical so it would be hard to fit a alnico in there. Anyways,m worse comes to worse i have another stock one if i want to go with that. I'll tell you this tho.....the way it is right now it breaks into feedback at the drop of a hat even without much gain and at low volume ! It's crazy. This along with my experience with the 59/custom makes me think this whole unbalanced coil thing is a matter of causing havok with a humbucker and must be designed just right to make it work. Even the duncan seems on the verge of being not right but just manages to keep from going off the deep end, if that makes any sense. With balanced coils it seems most any design is usable and tamer. But the unbalancing act seems to bring some unique goodness to the table but along with it some bad things, and the trick is finding the right balance that allows the good while keeping the bad down to a negligible degree.
Re: Does anyone make a HB with mismatched coils....
^ The part about any pickup design is to make the right balance.....and there are plenty of symmetrical humbuckers that fail at that as there are mismatched ones.
Bear in mind the pickup outcome is bad because of your opinion and nothing more. I did a C/JB hybrid and found it completely lacklustre. If I'd been a blase about my thought process as yours I would have assumed the 2 didn't match at all. But plenty have tried that very combo and found it killer.
The feedback thing is probably you not assembling it right after unwinding the coil. I have the c/59 hybrid as well as a C/jazz and neither want to break into feedback any more than any other pickup.
^ The part about any pickup design is to make the right balance.....and there are plenty of symmetrical humbuckers that fail at that as there are mismatched ones.
Bear in mind the pickup outcome is bad because of your opinion and nothing more. I did a C/JB hybrid and found it completely lacklustre. If I'd been a blase about my thought process as yours I would have assumed the 2 didn't match at all. But plenty have tried that very combo and found it killer.
The feedback thing is probably you not assembling it right after unwinding the coil. I have the c/59 hybrid as well as a C/jazz and neither want to break into feedback any more than any other pickup.
gimmieinfo
Active member
Re: Does anyone make a HB with mismatched coils....
I'm not talking about microphonic feedback. The pickup is assembled correctly. I'm talking about acoustic feedback, the good kind. It sustains and breaks into a higher harmonic much easier then typical. I notice the same thing with the 59/custom.
I'm not talking about microphonic feedback. The pickup is assembled correctly. I'm talking about acoustic feedback, the good kind. It sustains and breaks into a higher harmonic much easier then typical. I notice the same thing with the 59/custom.
gregory
New member
Re: Does anyone make a HB with mismatched coils....
The sensible thing to do at this point is to pull no more than about 1k off the other coil before giving it an audition.
The 600 ohm reduction on one coil using a pickup from the Custom family that I recommended isn't an insignificant amount. 7.4k down to 5k, on the other hand, is a pretty heavy-handed decrease!
The sensible thing to do at this point is to pull no more than about 1k off the other coil before giving it an audition.
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gimmieinfo
Active member
Re: Does anyone make a HB with mismatched coils....
Yeah, but i would just pass on tying it altogether if i had to do that. I don't have the energy or patience at my age and it's all i can do to muster the energy to do it once let alone 2-3 times at 1k per shot. Besides, the result showed me that any less and there wouldn't be any advantage because It's still a little too hot as is. So 1k would have been nothing. Like i said, i'll likely pull the other coil to 5k at some point but like i said i don't have the patience or energy right now, so back to the other pickup. It ain't easy being old. Few years ago i'd have done it all in one shot and thought nothing of it.
Yeah, but i would just pass on tying it altogether if i had to do that. I don't have the energy or patience at my age and it's all i can do to muster the energy to do it once let alone 2-3 times at 1k per shot. Besides, the result showed me that any less and there wouldn't be any advantage because It's still a little too hot as is. So 1k would have been nothing. Like i said, i'll likely pull the other coil to 5k at some point but like i said i don't have the patience or energy right now, so back to the other pickup. It ain't easy being old. Few years ago i'd have done it all in one shot and thought nothing of it.
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Zhangliqun
Questionologist
Re: Does anyone make a HB with mismatched coils....
I've measured 2 or 3 Burstbuckers coil by coil and the difference between coils is negligible to the point that it could easily be accounted for by my hand warming one coil slightly more than the other just by holding the pickup a few seconds -- about 0.05k max. Andecdotal, these few could be just anomalies so take this info for whatever it's worth.
I've measured 2 or 3 Burstbuckers coil by coil and the difference between coils is negligible to the point that it could easily be accounted for by my hand warming one coil slightly more than the other just by holding the pickup a few seconds -- about 0.05k max. Andecdotal, these few could be just anomalies so take this info for whatever it's worth.
blueman335
Mojo's Minions
Re: Does anyone make a HB with mismatched coils....
Zhang: Missouri?
Zhang: Missouri?
PicoRiveraTele
New member
Re: Does anyone make a HB with mismatched coils....
That distinction doesn't exist. I think by "acoustic feedback" you mean where the changing air pressure coming out of your speakers feeds back with the moving guitar strings, leading to sympathetic vibration, similar to how an ebow works. That type of feed back doesn't have to do with wax potting, it has more to do with the volume, specifically at the frequency of sympathetic vibration, gain, and how you have you guitar angled in relation to the speaker. If a pickup is itself microphonic, it will just make terrible squealing noise, as parts within the pickup resonate at some ear piecing frequency.
That distinction doesn't exist. I think by "acoustic feedback" you mean where the changing air pressure coming out of your speakers feeds back with the moving guitar strings, leading to sympathetic vibration, similar to how an ebow works. That type of feed back doesn't have to do with wax potting, it has more to do with the volume, specifically at the frequency of sympathetic vibration, gain, and how you have you guitar angled in relation to the speaker. If a pickup is itself microphonic, it will just make terrible squealing noise, as parts within the pickup resonate at some ear piecing frequency.
Zhangliqun
Questionologist
Re: Does anyone make a HB with mismatched coils....
You can't get 6k worth of 42 on a standard humbucker bobbin. Gotta be at least 42.5, probably 43. With the same number of turns -- or to be more precise, the same length of wire -- 42 will read roughly 25% higher, meaning a 6k coil of 43 is equivalent turn count-wise to about 4.7/4.8k. Which means, assuming the bigger coil is 43 and not 42.5, the turn count disparity between your Fred coils is not nearly as much as the DCR would otherwise suggest.
You can't get 6k worth of 42 on a standard humbucker bobbin. Gotta be at least 42.5, probably 43. With the same number of turns -- or to be more precise, the same length of wire -- 42 will read roughly 25% higher, meaning a 6k coil of 43 is equivalent turn count-wise to about 4.7/4.8k. Which means, assuming the bigger coil is 43 and not 42.5, the turn count disparity between your Fred coils is not nearly as much as the DCR would otherwise suggest.
Zhangliqun
Questionologist
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