Does Flipping the Magnet Flip the Phase?

[Drak]

So, I mix a lot of pickups in builds, always have.
And occasionally, I'll have to flip the hot/grounds on a pickup to get it phased right with another pickup.

But I'm flipping magnets in HB's more and more often lately.
If I ran into a situation where I already knew the pickup was OOP with its neighbor...
And I wanted my wiring to be 'normal'...
Can I just flip the magnet instead of flipping hot/ground leads?
Does it work like that?
Or is there something else affecting the situation, i.e. wind direction or something?
Thanks.

 

[DavidRavenMoon]

Re: Does Flipping the Magnet Flip the Phase?

Yes, it reverses the polarity. Same as switching the hot and ground leads. I never flip magnets. I always switch the wiring.


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[Drak]

Re: Does Flipping the Magnet Flip the Phase?

If I wasn't already 'in there', I'd flip wiring too, that's what I normally do anyway.
But If I was in there swapping magnets, why not just flip it while I'm in there swapping?

 

[VinceT]

Re: Does Flipping the Magnet Flip the Phase?

Yup. Flip top to bottom (looking at the magnet as it sits in the HB)


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[Chistopher]

Re: Does Flipping the Magnet Flip the Phase?

The only reason to ever flip a magnet is if you also change the polarity using the wires so that a slug coil with a slug coil or a screw coil with a screw coil can be in phase and noiseless.

 

[Bowtomecha]

Re: Does Flipping the Magnet Flip the Phase?

Reversing the pickup and the wiring does the same right?

 

[Mincer]

Re: Does Flipping the Magnet Flip the Phase?

The only reason to ever flip a magnet is if you also change the polarity using the wires so that a slug coil with a slug coil or a screw coil with a screw coil can be in phase and noiseless.

This would be why I've done it. I wouldn't do it if I was going for something that isn't splitting specific coils.

 

[Chistopher]

Re: Does Flipping the Magnet Flip the Phase?

Reversing the pickup and the wiring does the same right?

The only difference is that flipping when two coils are reversed (reversed wound) they cancel hum, whereas when they have different magnetic polarity (reverse polarity) they do not. If both coils have the same magnetic and electric polarity, they are in phase but do not cancel hum. If the wiring is opposite, it's out of phase but noiseless, if the magnet is opposite, it's out of phase but with noise. If both or opposite, it's in phase and noiseless.

 

[Artie]

Re: Does Flipping the Magnet Flip the Phase?

Hey Christopher: I hope you don't mind if I clarify one thing. The magnet has nothing to do with noise-canceling, per se. That's purely a function of the how the coils are wound and connected together. For example, as Duncan does it, both coils are wound the same direction, (CW or CCW), and then connected reverse polarity. Another manufacturer could wind them opposite directions and then connect them "in-phase", so to speak. Both will be hum-canceling. The polarity of the magnet then, affects the actual signal that you want to keep. So, flipping a magnet would change the polarity of the signal you want, and have no affect on the noise you don't want.

I may have just said the same thing you did, in a different way.

 

[DavidRavenMoon]

Re: Does Flipping the Magnet Flip the Phase?

The way a humbucker works is the two coils are wired with reverse polarity. Since most humbuckers are wound in the same direction that means start to start, or finish to finish.

Any signal entering both coils with the same phase gets nullified. That’s your 60Hz magnetic field noise that we call hum.

Because each coil has opposite magnetic polarity it “sees” the vibrating strings out-of-phase. Because the two coils are wired with reverse polarity it sums those two signals in phase.

The interference doesn’t rely on the magnets to be inducted into the coils, so it cancels out.

If you flip the magnet the two coils still have opposite magnetic polarity. But now the composite signal is reversed compared to another pickup. That’s the same as reversing the + and - leads. But it can be helpful if you are splitting the pickup and want one of its coils to hum cancel with another split coil.

Two side notes: that high pitched buzzing you sometimes hear when you remove your hands from the strings is electrical field noise. It doesn’t get canceled by humbuckers and you need shielding to help block that.

The reason why Fender reverse wind the middle pickups are instead of just reversing the wires is so that the start of the coil is connected to ground. The first wraps are in close contact with the magnets, which are not grounded. So if you touch a magnet the induced noise is shunted to ground.

Reverse winding the two coils on a humbucker doesn’t have any advantages.




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[AlexR]

Re: Does Flipping the Magnet Flip the Phase?

Flipping the magnet is also the only way to reverse phase easily with braided outer as the grounded conductor.