Does the Does the Dimarzio Liquifire match well with the Norton?

[JOEBACCA]

I bought a Fernandes Vertigo Deluxe (Mahagony Neck and Body, Rosewood

Board) and I'm looking to Install a Dimarzio Norton in the Bridge ( been

wanting to try it for some time). I joined a New Band a few Months back

called "Coyle". We play Melodic Hard Rock/Metal Originals tuned to Drop

C..... I primarily stay on the Bridge Pickup for Clean Arpeggiated Intro's that

shift instantly into High Gain... hence why I prefer the versatility of Medium

Output Pickups so that my Cleans stay relatively clean on the Bridge Pickup

and still retain nice definition and chunk on the Gain Channel. The Norton

should fit the bill nicely. However I hear mixed reactions on Neck Pickups

that Pair Up EQ wise with the Norton. Quite a few guys on the Dimarzio

Forum say the Air Classic N or 36th Ann. N work well, others say Air Norton

or Paf Pro. I myself have also been curious about the Liquifire- "Its treble

response is warmer and smoother while bass response is tighter and

brighter. The total sound has a more focused voice which works equally well

for highly overdriven solos and complex, clean chords". To me that sounds

perfect on paper. Anyone try this combo??

 

[MetalManiac]

Re: Does the Does the Dimarzio Liquifire match well with the Norton?

At this very instant I am installing (or more accurately TRYing to install wihtout botching) a Norton into my Peavey Rotor. My first thought for the neck was Liquifire.
Or Breed neck even better.
Then I decided to go with the SH6-N.. On paper it looks like a killer combo.
Its amazing now how many of my many axes have both a Dimarzio and a Duncan in them, just cause I decided it would be the best combo.
I've ehard of volume mismatch peoblems with the AN or Air Classic , casue the Norton is so hot. iN FACT, IF i AM NOT MISTAKEN, SOME PEOPLE WERER CONSIDERING THE tz IN THE NECK WITH THE nORTON BRIDGE, AND EVEN THAT WOULD BE OVERPOWRED.

 

[ToneScavenger]

Re: Does the Does the Dimarzio Liquifire match well with the Norton?

I bought a Fernandes Vertigo Deluxe (Mahagony Neck and Body, Rosewood

Board) and I'm looking to Install a Dimarzio Norton in the Bridge ( been

wanting to try it for some time). I joined a New Band a few Months back

called "Coyle". We play Melodic Hard Rock/Metal Originals tuned to Drop

C..... I primarily stay on the Bridge Pickup for Clean Arpeggiated Intro's that

shift instantly into High Gain... hence why I prefer the versatility of Medium

Output Pickups so that my Cleans stay relatively clean on the Bridge Pickup

and still retain nice definition and chunk on the Gain Channel. The Norton

should fit the bill nicely. However I hear mixed reactions on Neck Pickups

that Pair Up EQ wise with the Norton. Quite a few guys on the Dimarzio

Forum say the Air Classic N or 36th Ann. N work well, others say Air Norton

or Paf Pro. I myself have also been curious about the Liquifire- "Its treble

response is warmer and smoother while bass response is tighter and

brighter. The total sound has a more focused voice which works equally well

for highly overdriven solos and complex, clean chords". To me that sounds

perfect on paper. Anyone try this combo??

I think the Norton in the bridge and the LiquiFire in the neck would be an excellent match! The LiquiFire was based in the Air Norton with the inputs of John Petrucci and the Air Norton was a lower power variant from the Norton so they are in the same family. The output from the Norton (352mA/12.62 Kohm) is also higher but no too far from the LiquiFire (300mA/10.75 Kohm)... I would say it's a better combo than putting the Air Norton in the neck with it! I would love to hear how they behave in the same guitar. I think that match its just about as perfect in real life as it is on paper.

Its amazing now how many of my many axes have both a Dimarzio and a Duncan in them, just cause I decided it would be the best combo.

I've been using DiMarzio neck pickups and Seymour Duncan in the bridge since forever. I know this sounds subjective and biased, but I personally prefer the neck pickups DiMarzio offers, but I also think there's no match for the Seymour Duncan models in the bridge... IMO. Never had a problem with out of phase or output mismatch... al we have to do to prevent a mistake is to read the spec sheets, understand how each brand engineer their pickups, get the right schematics and ask at the forums! :biglaugh:

 

[UberMetalDood]

Re: Does the Does the Dimarzio Liquifire match well with the Norton?

I think the Liquifire is too hot to pair with the Norton. My preference is the Norton/PAF Pro. You can also look at the PAF36th neck, PAF Classic, and PAF Joe which pair well with the Norton. If you really insist on the Liquifire, I'll bet you could lower it from the strings and raise the Norton to where it would balance better.

 

[JOEBACCA]

Re: Does the Does the Dimarzio Liquifire match well with the Norton?

I think the Liquifire is too hot to pair with the Norton. My preference is the Norton/PAF Pro. You can also look at the PAF36th neck, PAF Classic, and PAF Joe which pair well with the Norton. If you really insist on the Liquifire, I'll bet you could lower it from the strings and raise the Norton to where it would balance better.

Have you tried the Liquifire with the Norton? Or is it just your opinion? I'm not

trying to come off as snarky. I just want some input from someone who has

tried it. The funny thing is the Paf Pro's output is Identical to the Liquifire at

300mv so that shouldn't be an issue. Anyone else?

 

[Juanhanglo]

Re: Does the Does the Dimarzio Liquifire match well with the Norton?

I have a norton/air norton combo in my rg520. They work well together. The liquifire should do fine as well.
My concern is that moving the liquifire further away from the strings to compensate for volume differences might thin it out a bit.

 

[UberMetalDood]

Re: Does the Does the Dimarzio Liquifire match well with the Norton?

Have you tried the Liquifire with the Norton? Or is it just your opinion? I'm not

trying to come off as snarky. I just want some input from someone who has

tried it. The funny thing is the Paf Pro's output is Identical to the Liquifire at

300mv so that shouldn't be an issue. Anyone else?

I do not talk about anything I haven't had direct experience with.

 

[JOEBACCA]

Re: Does the Does the Dimarzio Liquifire match well with the Norton?

I do not talk about anything I haven't had direct experience with.

If you could elaborate why the Liquifire didn't match up well with the Norton to your ears, I would greatly appreciate it.:fing2:

 

[ToneScavenger]

Re: Does the Does the Dimarzio Liquifire match well with the Norton?

I'll be honest here on my side as I'm only trying to help out here. I have not played the Norton myself... but I have played the LiquiFire in the Ernie Ball JP , and have owned the Fred and the Tone Zone (As the Norton sits right in between those two IMHO) and I know the LiquiFire it's quite a powerful pickup. That's why when wrote my post I was coming mostly from a technical standpoint and why I posted the output voltage and DC resistance values. I'm curious myself if it's going to work or not :fingersx:

I myself had a similar dilemma with my current pickup combination... I have a Screamin' Demon in the bridge and a DiMarzio Chopper in the neck and some of my friends and many people at the forums kept telling me it wasn't going to work, because they were too close in DC resistance numbers (10.0 Kohm for the Demon and 9.16 Kohm for the Chopper) and although I'm aware that a pickup's output or power can't be based solely in these values (the right way to rate a pickup is by measuring inductance values, which are measured in milihenries and it's not so easy to calculate for the operation and behavior of a guitar pickup) one can use the DC resistance and/or the output voltage to give a close idea. It was specially difficult to compare them, since they were from different brands and they have different ways of rating. I installed the pickups in my guitar and they matched up well, I only had to move the neck pickup 1/16" lower than the bridge to balance them out. I guess it's a trial an error experience when it comes down to this topics... unless the pickups differences are too obvious, like installing a Duckbucker in the neck and an Invader at the bridge... :question:

 

[UberMetalDood]

Re: Does the Does the Dimarzio Liquifire match well with the Norton?

If you could elaborate why the Liquifire didn't match up well with the Norton to your ears, I would greatly appreciate it.:fing2:

It all comes down to personal preference really. There are people who swear that a Tone Zone or Super Distortion work great in the neck. I watched a few videos and listened to some audio samples and they did sound good, but I would personally never consider them for neck pickups.

My personal opinion is that the perfect neck pickup is a pickup that's punchy, articulate, pretty bright, and enough output so that you don't feel like you need additional gain or a boost when you solo on the neck pickup. For that reason, I never liked HSS strats that have single coils in the neck because the output is so much lower. Because I like to switch between bridge and neck positions when I solo, I prefer the output to match.

The reason I like the PAF Pro is because it's real punchy, fairly bright and has enough output to match a lot of pickups but not too powerful to match lower output pickups. It sounds great and doesn't lose a whole lot when you lower it away from the strings. It's also a unique pickup which makes me crave its sound.

The Liquifire is a great neck pickup, but when I tried it, I felt like it needed a hot bridge pickup. It would be perfect for a D-Sonic, Super Distortion, Tone Zone, Breed, etc... because those pickups are pretty hot. I don't use pickups more powerful than that. The Norton is a medium output pickup. Dimarzio rates the output about 350 compared to the Liquifire which is rated at 300 I think (check Dimarzio's site for exact numbers).

Compared to other Dimarzios, the Norton seems more like it would be rated at 320 and the Liquifire seems almost as high. It doesn't work to go by the numbers and assume that because the Norton is 350 and the Liquifire is 50mv lower then it matches the output. When you actually install the pickup, you get a better sense of how it responds to you.

Some pickups are low output but "feel" like high output pickups because of the way they respond to your picking. Most low output pickups don't give it up that easy but yield more dynamics than high output pickups.

To me, the Liquifire reacts a lot like a hot pickup. It feels like you're playing a high output pickup even though it's not. The Norton isn't a hot pickup and I usually keep mine kind of close to the strings. When I had the Liquifire, I had to lower it away from the strings to match with a Custom Custom bridge, Norton bridge, and JB bridge which I was experimenting with at the time. I eventually traded the Liquifire, not because it wasn't awesome, but because I wanted to experiment a little more before settling down on certain neck pickups. To be honest, I'm kind of looking for a replacement for my Jazz neck pickups.

I'll bet you will be just fine with the Norton/Liquifire. My preference is the PAF Pro, but you might not be into that kind of sound. Dimarzio is great about exchanging pickups so give the Liquifire a try and see if it works. I'm not saying that the Liquifire isn't a perfect match. All I'm saying is that it's not my preference at the moment.

 

[JOEBACCA]

Re: Does the Does the Dimarzio Liquifire match well with the Norton?

It all comes down to personal preference really. There are people who swear that a Tone Zone or Super Distortion work great in the neck. I watched a few videos and listened to some audio samples and they did sound good, but I would personally never consider them for neck pickups.

My personal opinion is that the perfect neck pickup is a pickup that's punchy, articulate, pretty bright, and enough output so that you don't feel like you need additional gain or a boost when you solo on the neck pickup. For that reason, I never liked HSS strats that have single coils in the neck because the output is so much lower. Because I like to switch between bridge and neck positions when I solo, I prefer the output to match.

The reason I like the PAF Pro is because it's real punchy, fairly bright and has enough output to match a lot of pickups but not too powerful to match lower output pickups. It sounds great and doesn't lose a whole lot when you lower it away from the strings. It's also a unique pickup which makes me crave its sound.

The Liquifire is a great neck pickup, but when I tried it, I felt like it needed a hot bridge pickup. It would be perfect for a D-Sonic, Super Distortion, Tone Zone, Breed, etc... because those pickups are pretty hot. I don't use pickups more powerful than that. The Norton is a medium output pickup. Dimarzio rates the output about 350 compared to the Liquifire which is rated at 300 I think (check Dimarzio's site for exact numbers).

Compared to other Dimarzios, the Norton seems more like it would be rated at 320 and the Liquifire seems almost as high. It doesn't work to go by the numbers and assume that because the Norton is 350 and the Liquifire is 50mv lower then it matches the output. When you actually install the pickup, you get a better sense of how it responds to you.

Some pickups are low output but "feel" like high output pickups because of the way they respond to your picking. Most low output pickups don't give it up that easy but yield more dynamics than high output pickups.

To me, the Liquifire reacts a lot like a hot pickup. It feels like you're playing a high output pickup even though it's not. The Norton isn't a hot pickup and I usually keep mine kind of close to the strings. When I had the Liquifire, I had to lower it away from the strings to match with a Custom Custom bridge, Norton bridge, and JB bridge which I was experimenting with at the time. I eventually traded the Liquifire, not because it wasn't awesome, but because I wanted to experiment a little more before settling down on certain neck pickups. To be honest, I'm kind of looking for a replacement for my Jazz neck pickups.

I'll bet you will be just fine with the Norton/Liquifire. My preference is the PAF Pro, but you might not be into that kind of sound. Dimarzio is great about exchanging pickups so give the Liquifire a try and see if it works. I'm not saying that the Liquifire isn't a perfect match. All I'm saying is that it's not my preference at the moment.

Thanks for the review Uber!!

 

[JOEBACCA]

Re: Does the Does the Dimarzio Liquifire match well with the Norton?

Well....I pulled the trigger on a used Norton in Excellent Condition as planned. However I passed on the Liquifire for now and found a Used Air Norton for $36 on Ebay...hope it rocks!! I'll keep you posted.

 

[King IzzO)))]

Re: Does the Does the Dimarzio Liquifire match well with the Norton?

Both the AN and Liquifire are a little on the dark side, and the Liquifire has a good bit of grind to it, it's def a pretty hot neck pickup, the AN is more subdued. Granted hearsay, I've never had a Norton, but if you want the positions to match up well I wouldn't pick either of them, just based on what I've been told. The Norton is supposed to be pretty bright, seems like I've seen it regarded as in the ballpark of the JB. Based on that bit of info I would say a PAF Pro or 36th, maybe even a Fred would be better choices.

That said, if you want thick shreddy lead tones from your neck pickup, there aren't many better than the Liquifire or the AN. The Liquifire doubles as an awesome sludge riff machine.

 

[SwampRocker]

Re: Does the Does the Dimarzio Liquifire match well with the Norton?

I bought a Fernandes Vertigo Deluxe (Mahagony Neck and Body, Rosewood

Board) and I'm looking to Install a Dimarzio Norton in the Bridge ( been

wanting to try it for some time). I joined a New Band a few Months back

called "Coyle". We play Melodic Hard Rock/Metal Originals tuned to Drop

C..... I primarily stay on the Bridge Pickup for Clean Arpeggiated Intro's that

shift instantly into High Gain... hence why I prefer the versatility of Medium

Output Pickups so that my Cleans stay relatively clean on the Bridge Pickup

and still retain nice definition and chunk on the Gain Channel. The Norton

should fit the bill nicely. However I hear mixed reactions on Neck Pickups

that Pair Up EQ wise with the Norton. Quite a few guys on the Dimarzio

Forum say the Air Classic N or 36th Ann. N work well, others say Air Norton

or Paf Pro. I myself have also been curious about the Liquifire- "Its treble

response is warmer and smoother while bass response is tighter and

brighter. The total sound has a more focused voice which works equally well

for highly overdriven solos and complex, clean chords". To me that sounds

perfect on paper. Anyone try this combo??

Ok well since i have no idea about using drop C and being curious myself i called dimarzio and ask the shop tech and the gentleman who help me said a regular D-activator set was a very good place to start not the X series.

 

[King IzzO)))]

Re: Does the Does the Dimarzio Liquifire match well with the Norton?

They push the D-Activators toward people looking for the EMG type metal sounds, if that's what you're going for.

 

[SwampRocker]

Re: Does the Does the Dimarzio Liquifire match well with the Norton?

yeah i dunno about dimarzio when i called the guy was really short and grumpy could just be new yorkers i dunno, but i described everything in the post topic and that what he came up with, on a side note a lot of dimarzios ahve that open air wah sound on a lot of the models and waaaay too many steve vai satriani and john pettruci models, i mean for each individual artists its too much over kill, i think we could all do with a lot less celeb's choice of tone and a lot much for the working man,but i digress

 

[RayBarbeeMusic]

Re: Does the Does the Dimarzio Liquifire match well with the Norton?

The right way to rate a pickup is by measuring inductance values, which are measured in milihenries and it's not so easy to calculate for the operation and behavior of a guitar pickup) one can use the DC resistance and/or the output voltage to give a close idea

Actually it's voltage, specifically AC voltage, that defines output, not henries or DC resistance. DC resistance is actually a horrible value to use unless you *KNOW* you are comparing 2 pickups wound with the same wire, using the same magnet, on the same length bobbin. Inductance in henries usually tracks much better with actual output, but not always, and I can think of some notable exceptions where that would be misleading. Again, it's best used when you know you're comparing apples and apples, and not in an absolute sense.

Here's a demonstration to bring it home: Connect a 1M resistor across the input of your amp. Does it make any sound? That's way more resistance than in any pickup. Now, connect the choke from any amp, which is just an inductor and has far more inductance than your guitar pickup, to the input of your amp. Did it make any sound? Now connect any AC source voltage to the input of your amp. Did that make sound? Increase the voltage, did the sound get louder?

Exactly. AC voltage drives amplifiers, not resistance or inductance, though those may or MAY NOT be an acceptible proxy for certain comparisons, neither is always accurate and in some cases can be very inaccurate. Voltage always does what it does.