Does The Old Rule still Applies? (guitar country of origin)

[WITH FULL DISTORTION]

Re: Does The Old Rule still Applies? (guitar country of origin)

i cant agree with first two paragraphs of yours, but the last ones makes sense to me. Q: ) thansk for the input man. it sounded a bit too radical. ahahah just like me.

 

[WITH FULL DISTORTION]

Re: Does The Old Rule still Applies? (guitar country of origin)

IMO, the "old rule" was untrue in the first place. It was based on false, nationalist generalizations. Some of the worst crap guitar brands ever made were manufactured right here in the good-ol' U.S. of A. Harmony, Silvertone, Kay, Danelectro...and those are some of the "better crappy ones." I've played ****ty Japanese guitars from the '60's that, while crummy, are easily better than anything these brands ever turned out. And it goes down from there when you get into the less well known lousy American guitar brands (many of which were also manufactured by Kay).

And now, both Gibson and Fender are making themselves look really, really damned bad (though Gibson is a whole helluva lot worse than Fender in terms of quality). The only instruments from either of these companies that get anywhere near the attention they deserve are the custom shop models. (Like I said, Gibson is particularly bad; Fender's problems mostly come down to setup quality and value.) That, of course, makes the imports (and the "good" American companies, such as G&L) look better in comparison. It's really sad, because both of these companies really turned it around in the '80's, and through the '90's. They were making decent quality, affordable, U.S.-made guitars worthy of the legacies of their respective names. If you want a really good quality, affordable Gibson, then snatch up those late '80's and '90's ones; don't buy new.

I'd take a Fujigen-made Japanese Fender sight unseen any day before taking a new American one. And my Epi SG from Japan (also Fujigen) was an incredible guitar. If I didn't have a '68 Gibson SG, I would have kept it. It was easily the '68's equal (if not better) in terms of quality; I was just broke and I didn't need two of them any more.

The list of examples could go on and on for pages. But for me, the bottom line is that you can't judge a guitar based solely on what country it was made in. Great guitars and complete crap can be made anywhere in the world.

i agree with that also, but partially
i just tried one american special and i bought one gibson flying v , the FADED series.
Both sounds and looked CHEAP. i sold the V. but i loved the Agressiveness of the V shape body. a lesson i would never forget. Q: )
Another question is : I saw that gibsons are all carvind or chambering their guitars inside, and that makes them lightweight in comparison to the older ones. for me , thats also bull****. so, in case i would liek to get a gibson flying V... should i also look into 80s or 90s era instead of early 2000?

 

[WITH FULL DISTORTION]

Re: Does The Old Rule still Applies? (guitar country of origin)

You need to follow the manufacturing companies (which are different than the brand name on the headstock). They usually keep quality constant when the majority of their production moves countries.

PROBLEM IS : does this ALWAYS happens?

 

[WITH FULL DISTORTION]

Re: Does The Old Rule still Applies? (guitar country of origin)

i have 3 MIJs, 2 MIKs, and 1 china, the differences are often subtle, yet sometimes crucial. I guess it is all subjective.

HUm.. Q: / hard to tell

 

[WITH FULL DISTORTION]

Re: Does The Old Rule still Applies? (guitar country of origin)

The only rule I have about buying guitars is this: cherry-pick them! I've got some great imports like my Blacktop Strat, my Schecter C-1 Custom, and my Epiphone Les Paul. Mexico, Korea, China. I also have a couple KILLER Gibson Explorers. When buying an import, I expect to invest in some of the stuff they spent less on like tuners, bridges, pots, and pickups. But is that so bad? My Blacktop Strat now sports the WLH set and locking Schallers. GREAT sounding guitar with those pickups! My Epi LP has a Tone Pros Bridge, Sperzels, a Duncan Custom and an APH-2n. To me, it's an opportunity to customize and have a fun project. Besides, sometimes that is advisable on American stuff too (the '57 Classic Pluss humbucker in my new Gibson LP has GOT to go :cussing.

If you cherry-pick and find a guitar that is really something, forget about where it was made. Sounds good, plays good... that's all that should matter. I'll say this. I don't miss my American Special HSS Strat at all. But I do miss the Chinese-made Modern Player Tele Thinline Deluxe w/P-90s that I sold. E-V-E-R-Y DAY!!! I even tried to buy another one, but that was still the best one I've played and I'd give anything to have it back :crying:

I understand your point. completely. but i just cant do that. AHAHAHAHAHAH

 

[WITH FULL DISTORTION]

Re: Does The Old Rule still Applies? (guitar country of origin)

I spent part of today sorting out a MIK Washburn Maverick series HSS guitar, installing Duncan Designed TE101n, SC101m and HB103b pickups. Eventually, I want to govern the coil selections using a Schaller Megaswitch E. For testing purposes, I connected up via the original Asian selector switch, pots and jack.

Looking at the instrument, the only obvious give away to its Korean origins is the misalignment of the pickup cavities relative to the centre line of the neck and body.

Despite this, plugged in to the amplifier simulations of Apple Logic, this little blue monster does a pretty mean Alex Lifeson tone circa Vapor Trails.

I have found some guitars with horrible issues. one of them was a way worse misalignment of the pickup cavities. that was Q: (((((( DIsgusting. AND THE guitar was even worse. ahahahahaha

 

[WITH FULL DISTORTION]

Re: Does The Old Rule still Applies? (guitar country of origin)

Hey JP! Long time Bro! Lotsa good advice here. I agree with nearly all. The rest of the world is catching up FAST! There is good stuff coming from all over. Fujigen are nearly ALWAYS gems, but thats talking older guitars as IIRC that factory was victim of the tsunami. Chinese guitars (reputable brands) have gotten very good. New Epis seem very consistant and pretty nice. Korean guitars and Indonesian guitars have gotten strong too. There are turds in all batches, and jems too. I think the key is to look for a reputable brand. Schecter, LTDs and other imports are normally all good

Yeah, thanks for the input man. LONGGGGGG TIme no see. i agree with it also, but until i cant certify for myself that those chinese, indonesian etc guitars had the quality improved, i would be pretty scared to buy one, except if its for a project where i ll use them without too much control quality. otherwise, ill go at least korean, for the quality control.
BUt after reading all the input here, i m eager to change this, but first i need to have real proof of it.

I want to buy two more guitars, one with set neck and another one with a NECK thru. the first one will be a kinda les paul model, a bc rich Eagle, or a Dean Cadillac, and/or a Gibson FLying V, but then its a big jump in quality. dont know if ill put the gibson in the middle of all of this.

 

[WITH FULL DISTORTION]

Re: Does The Old Rule still Applies? (guitar country of origin)

Well, I couldn`t stand not having a seven string anymore, so just this once I broke down and purchased a chinese Jackson for christmas (and a duncan Nazgul to go in it). JS22-7 in satin black, to be precise. Seeing at that`s kind of exactly teh direction I expect you to be looking, maybe my impressions will help.

First off, I had serious concerns, especially since I kind of hated myself for buying a chinese product. But once it got here a few days later, I was very quickly shown that they were completely unfounded.

The Fit and finish were literally better than anything that I`ve ever seen come out of korea in the last >20 years, and actually up there with most production japanese instruments fo the late 90s /early 2000s. The workmanship is almost unbelievable for the price, I mean, I charge more for a refret w/nut and setup that this guitar costs as a whole.

There`s a aeautiful piece of quartersawn maple for the neck (with some very light but consistent flame), a nice uniform slab of rosewood for the fretboard, perfect neck fit, flawless finish, and better setup and fretjob than I`ve ever seen in the sub 500$ price range, much less for HALF that. Excellent sustain, lowest action of any guitar I have (partly becasue It still has 9s which i`m surprisingly OK with...). Even the stock pickups were surprisingly good.

Even the soldering job surprised me.. I`ve been soldering for what, 29 years, and somewhere in China there`s a kid that makes me look like a beginner.

I am very glad that I never said anything about chinese workmanship, just about the regime and that they need to start using decent raw materials. This was the very first guitar that ever came into my house and "needed" absolutely nothing done to it. No fret polishing, no recutting the nut, no realigning the neck, no tweaking of the truss rod and setup...

And then I actually realized this is the first guitar that I`ve ever actually purchased brand new (or from an online store, for that matter). I am in no way disappointed by that. Best 250 bucks I ever spent.

FWIW

what does FWIW means?
ahahahahahahahahha
now i got excited to buy one Q: P

 

[WITH FULL DISTORTION]

Re: Does The Old Rule still Applies? (guitar country of origin)

The REALLY old rule about crappy japan doesnt... The new one sort of does.

Sounds smthn like this:
"Really hiend stuff only comes out of USA, and Japan for certain brands (esp, ibanez, caparison). Mid-hiend stuff comes from both, and gets fancier from america - but more stably good from Japan... Korea makes good uppermid stuff sometimes (Ltd deluxe, agile), same for mexico and fenders.

Everything else is junk"

...YMMV!

I DIDNT Understand the new rule
Q: (

 

[WITH FULL DISTORTION]

Re: Does The Old Rule still Applies? (guitar country of origin)

Lotsa good advice here man, FWIW, I own 5 MiA guitars, 2 MiK and one Mexi Strat made in the span of 20 or so years and while I love every one of them, I have to admit that the quality (or difference of) doesn't go hand-in-hand with the country of origin. My best two are US-made but also custom-built. I have a Korean guitar that I bought dirt-cheap that is at the same quality level as a "normal" production high-end USA one and there's a Korean that's exceptionally well-made that I really can't flaw in the least. There are also Indonesian and Chinese ones that I've played and found to be pretty darn good.

Usually, the difference is in the quality of the raw materials, the hardware and electronics used, but even that is rather quickly becoming smaller and smaller.

YEAH, i got that, when the hardware and electronics have some flaws, thats not a big deal, but when its a project error, or some worse flaw, then i start to really worry. thats why i havent any chinese or indonesian guitars.

so, the old korean, chinese, indonesian, and indian guitars arent good. but the newer ones that are coming out NOW are OK at least?!

 

[WITH FULL DISTORTION]

Re: Does The Old Rule still Applies? (guitar country of origin)

The midrange offerings gap is narrowing, and the 2000s trend for cheap barebones low spec american guitars Is sorta making it all confusing

HOWEVER...the high end isnt a gap its a freakin CHASM. Get to Fender AmDlx or Gibson LP Custom levels, and the only country making production competition is Japan

completely agree with that

 

[WITH FULL DISTORTION]

Re: Does The Old Rule still Applies? (guitar country of origin)

The issue, I think, isn't the country, it's the specs. The workers in Korea or wherever are just as capable as anywhere else. Only, the reason companies tend to manufacture in, say, Indonesia is to build to a price point. They don't tend to say, "Let's save $200 on labour to build an SG for $999 instead of $1199". Instead, they want to make a guitar for $300, and squeeze things down, including labour, to get there. So materials as well as labour may (and I stress may) be inferior to an American or Japanese high-end model.

i HAVE SAW it happens, dozens of times

 

[WITH FULL DISTORTION]

Re: Does The Old Rule still Applies? (guitar country of origin)

Nah, I'm not so sure about the workers.

Guitar making is a bit random and you have to react to things.

Having a maker who is an enthusiastic guitar player himself will make a real difference in the high end market.

TRUTH

 

[WITH FULL DISTORTION]

Re: Does The Old Rule still Applies? (guitar country of origin)

Hey JP how's doin'?

I have no in-depth experience with Chinese manufactured guitars but as long as they have those new super precise CNC machines and strict quality control of the brands, I have no worries. Some of the recent Ibanez axes that I test played were great for the first feel of the minute.

My last no-go guitar was a Squier '51. It says 'made in Indonesia' and also says 'play me' every time I look at it. It has an ample of great riffs in it ya know. I love that beast and prefer the feel to most Fenders.

Thanks for the input man
i want your input also in a Marshall thread i just posted some days ago. Q: P
on the amplifier central. could you go there and check it?
THANKS
JP