Doing some research, looking for an under 30w tube amp

[Matt42]

I'm in researching mode for an amp for my g/f to use in our band. She plays the fiddle, and we have been unable to get a good sound out anything we have tried. (She uses a Fishman v-200 pickup through an MXR 6 Band EQ and a Bagg's Para Acoustic DI, and sometimes into a Roland Cube 60). We've tried some acoustic amps, and they just don't quite cut it. Her biggest issue is that she feels like she gets drowned out by the bass and electric guitar (me). This issue has been ongoing since this band formed back in January.

After a gig this past weekend, she was talking about what she wanted from her sound, and without going into the whole conversation, she was basically describing a tube amp. We are going to borrow a friend's Blues Junior for a couple of gigs while he is on vacation, and see how that works. If it's sounding like what she wants, we will start shopping, hence the research.

We need something that has a lot of clean headroom, is very responsive to playing dynamics (she is very dynamic with her bowing), and has a warm, full low-mid range. I'd prefer to avoid anything with a lot of high end as the fiddle tends to get really harsh in that range, but we can tame that with an EQ if needed. Single Channel is fine, but more isn't bad either. I'd like reverb on board. Effects loop would be nice, but not necessary. I'd like to keep the price under $400 new or used. 30 watts or less, and preferably only 1 speaker.

Here's what I've looked up so far:

Blues Jr. - this is the front runner right now
JCA 2112 or 2212 - both seem like they don't have the head room we need.
Classic 30 - I know this is something of a standard, how is the head room, I've never actually played one
Bugera V22
Blackstar 20
Eggnater Tweaker (probably out of our price range)
H&K TM18 (again, probably too much money)

Anyone have input on any of these for our needs, or is there anything else out there that I should consider?

 

[Chickenwings]

Re: Doing some research, looking for an under 30w tube amp

I have friends in a Gypsy band. Their violinist was in the same boat. She came over and tried a bunch of my amps and pedals. In the end she decided my Princeton Reverb II was what she was after. There are not too many PRII's on the used market, so she ended up getting a deluxe reverb. 22 watts via a pair of 6v6's has a lot fatter and warmer bottom end than a blues junior. Plus its in a much nicer cabinet and the reverb is smoother. Add a cannabis rex speaker and you have a pants wettingly good sounding amp.
Try one of them out.

 

[Matt42]

Re: Doing some research, looking for an under 30w tube amp

I hadn't considered a DRRI cause I figured it would be out of our price range. After looking on Ebay, I think they would overshoot our $400 budget unless we got really lucky, however, not by so much that I couldn't see spending the extra to get one. I actually considered that amp for myself, but decided that I couldn't live without an effects loop.

 

[SirJackdeFuzz]

Re: Doing some research, looking for an under 30w tube amp

Big fan of the Fender Pro Jr . . . but NOT the Blues Jr.

 

[Bludave]

Re: Doing some research, looking for an under 30w tube amp

I'm in researching mode for an amp for my g/f to use in our band. She plays the fiddle, and we have been unable to get a good sound out anything we have tried. (She uses a Fishman v-200 pickup through an MXR 6 Band EQ and a Bagg's Para Acoustic DI, and sometimes into a Roland Cube 60). We've tried some acoustic amps, and they just don't quite cut it. Her biggest issue is that she feels like she gets drowned out by the bass and electric guitar (me). This issue has been ongoing since this band formed back in January.

After a gig this past weekend, she was talking about what she wanted from her sound, and without going into the whole conversation, she was basically describing a tube amp. We are going to borrow a friend's Blues Junior for a couple of gigs while he is on vacation, and see how that works. If it's sounding like what she wants, we will start shopping, hence the research.

We need something that has a lot of clean headroom, is very responsive to playing dynamics (she is very dynamic with her bowing), and has a warm, full low-mid range. I'd prefer to avoid anything with a lot of high end as the fiddle tends to get really harsh in that range, but we can tame that with an EQ if needed. Single Channel is fine, but more isn't bad either. I'd like reverb on board. Effects loop would be nice, but not necessary. I'd like to keep the price under $400 new or used. 30 watts or less, and preferably only 1 speaker.

Here's what I've looked up so far:

Blues Jr. - this is the front runner right now
JCA 2112 or 2212 - both seem like they don't have the head room we need.
Classic 30 - I know this is something of a standard, how is the head room, I've never actually played one
Bugera V22
Blackstar 20
Eggnater Tweaker (probably out of our price range)
H&K TM18 (again, probably too much money)

Anyone have input on any of these for our needs, or is there anything else out there that I should consider?

She has everything she needs Just run her through the PA! That should be plenty loud. That's what we do with our keyboard player. Run him through the PA & he can always be heard

 

[Bludave]

Re: Doing some research, looking for an under 30w tube amp

I guess before I posted my previous post I should have asked. Is she playing an acoustic violin or is it an electric? If it is electric then you could justify an amp, but if it is acoustic and you are interested in maintaining it;s acoustic properties then you should run her through the PA. If she is still not loud enough then you need to consider bringing everything down a bit or bringing her volume up. How big of a PA are you using?

 

[bungalowbill]

Re: Doing some research, looking for an under 30w tube amp

Why does it have to be under 30 watt?

I would have her try a Peavey Nashville 400....don't laugh..it is a great amp for fiddle and pedal steel.

 

[Matt42]

Re: Doing some research, looking for an under 30w tube amp

I guess before I posted my previous post I should have asked. Is she playing an acoustic violin or is it an electric? If it is electric then you could justify an amp, but if it is acoustic and you are interested in maintaining it;s acoustic properties then you should run her through the PA. If she is still not loud enough then you need to consider bringing everything down a bit or bringing her volume up. How big of a PA are you using?

It's not so much a problem of volume as it is a problem of tone. Fiddles with a pickup produce a lot of really harsh high and mid range, and when you turn up the volume, the harshness gets worse. We've been able to tame it some, but not enough. On our quite, acoustic guitar/banjo songs it's not so much of a problem, it's on our loud electric guitar/acoustic guitar songs that it really creates issues. I've been backing off on my playing a lot lately trying to help, and while it does help some, she still tends to fade into the mix.

It's an acoustic fiddle, but honestly, electric fiddles and acoustic fiddles with a pickup are very very similar sonically. Most electric fiddles use some sort of piezo or tranducer, which is essentially what most acoustic fiddle pickups are. I bought her a Fender Electric Fiddle for our first anniversary and while it was fun, it sounded like a lower quality version of her fiddle with a pickup, we have since traded it and gotten a nice acoustic mandolin.

Her current signal chain used to look like this: Fiddle -> Cry Baby -> MXR 6 Band -> LR Baggs Para Acoustic DI -> PA. At the last couple of shows we have gone from the DI to a Roland Cube 60. The Cube 60 has been closer to what we need than anything else we have tried, even a Genz Benz acoustic amp that she plugged into briefly at a show last week.

I considered the Pro Jr, but I don't like the lack of reverb, and I'm not a huge fan of the single tone knob.

I say 30 watts max because I'm playing a 40 watt amp, and I don't want her to have a bigger one than me!!! j/k. I say under 30 watts just because I'm turning into a big proponent of smaller amps. Since I have started gigging regularly, I have found that even 40 watts is just too much for almost every venue in town.

I hadn't considered a Nashville amp because I forget about them all the time. I've never heard one, but I'm imagining them as fairly bright. Is that accurate? Also, solid state, or tube? At 80 watts, if it's tube it's gonna be waaay to loud, if it's solid state, it could be worth checking out.

Thanks for the input everyone, keep the suggestions coming.

 

[Matt42]

Re: Doing some research, looking for an under 30w tube amp

I have friends in a Gypsy band. Their violinist was in the same boat. She came over and tried a bunch of my amps and pedals. In the end she decided my Princeton Reverb II was what she was after. There are not too many PRII's on the used market, so she ended up getting a deluxe reverb. 22 watts via a pair of 6v6's has a lot fatter and warmer bottom end than a blues junior. Plus its in a much nicer cabinet and the reverb is smoother. Add a cannabis rex speaker and you have a pants wettingly good sounding amp.
Try one of them out.

One of the local shops has a Princeton Reverb Reissue in for $700, which is out of our price range, but I'm curious how similar it would sound to a DRRI, as it would be good to get an idea of how her fiddle will react with something in that range before we buy.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Doing some research, looking for an under 30w tube amp

Looks like you've only been looking at guitar amps. If the Bugera V22 doesn't do it, maybe what you should look at is a keyboard amp. This one is one of the best...

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/keyboards-midi/roland-kc-350-120w-keyboard-mixing-amp




.

 

[Frankly]

Re: Doing some research, looking for an under 30w tube amp

Try something with an accordion input, like an old Ampeg.

 

[Chickenwings]

Re: Doing some research, looking for an under 30w tube amp

One of the local shops has a Princeton Reverb Reissue in for $700, which is out of our price range, but I'm curious how similar it would sound to a DRRI, as it would be good to get an idea of how her fiddle will react with something in that range before we buy.

ive been playing in a duo with a guy who uses a princeton. The main difference in tone is the 10 inch speaker. 12 is much fatter. The 10 is all abour presence. You want warm then a dark 12 would be the way to go (a cannabis rex would be perfect). look for second hand DR and go for JJ tubes. JJ's in the power section will increase the headroom and low end, and jj pres will knock off some of the strident high end. A nice fender amp is so much sweeter than direct in for violin....and she will have an onstage monitor and a degere of control over her tone that the (generally) terminally and industrially deaf sound engineers that one finds in most venues cannot mess up - at least as far as on stage sound goes. Tilt back legs and she can point the amp at her head and not worry about being drowned out again.

 

[ModalMood]

Re: Doing some research, looking for an under 30w tube amp

Well it sounds like the PA idea is worth trying. If that doesn't work you are on the right track. BJ, PRRI, DRRI. I can't imagine any amp that would do a better job for you. I used to play a CUBE 60. 60 SS watts pales in comparison to 15 tube watts. The Blues Junior crushes it. You could get something more complex like an Egnater Tweaker. It would have more options but I bet wouldn't sound as good as the Fenders. Just IMO.

 

[Surgeon]

Re: Doing some research, looking for an under 30w tube amp

The fiddle player for Chuck Ragan plays an Orange Tiny Terror live and sounds very good. Might be a good option.

I'd put some links up but I'm at work and can't. If you do a youtube search for "chuck Ragan the vault" you'll find examples of what I'm talkin' about.

 

[zzmoore]

Re: Doing some research, looking for an under 30w tube amp

She has everything she needs Just run her through the PA! That should be plenty loud. That's what we do with our keyboard player. Run him through the PA & he can always be heard

I guess before I posted my previous post I should have asked. Is she playing an acoustic violin or is it an electric? If it is electric then you could justify an amp, but if it is acoustic and you are interested in maintaining it;s acoustic properties then you should run her through the PA. If she is still not loud enough then you need to consider bringing everything down a bit or bringing her volume up. How big of a PA are you using?

Why does it have to be under 30 watt?

I would have her try a Peavey Nashville 400....don't laugh..it is a great amp for fiddle and pedal steel.

Looks like you've only been looking at guitar amps. If the Bugera V22 doesn't do it, maybe what you should look at is a keyboard amp. This one is one of the best...

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/keyboards-midi/roland-kc-350-120w-keyboard-mixing-amp




.

^^^^^^^
All that kind of stuff.
If she needs headroom (and she does) 30 watts is nothing.
The last thing she needs is a guitar amp. Get her into the PA.
If she still needs her own amp, you should be looking at something like a powered monitor with 200 watts or more.
best

 

[lNllClK]

Re: Doing some research, looking for an under 30w tube amp

I have a Bugera V22 that I play my guitar on... the clean channel is very nice with ridiculous headroom, I can't recommend it enough for a budget tube amp. Especially for your situation I think it would be the perfect solution, forget about names, save some money and if she's just playing the fiddle through it on clean get the V22... $300 bucks or less used or with a coupon.

 

[Matt42]

Re: Doing some research, looking for an under 30w tube amp

^^^^^^^
All that kind of stuff.
If she needs headroom (and she does) 30 watts is nothing.
The last thing she needs is a guitar amp. Get her into the PA.
If she still needs her own amp, you should be looking at something like a powered monitor with 200 watts or more.
best

Again, for the 3rd time, a PA is NOT the solution we are after. Even playing through the nice house systems at the clubs around here, she is still not getting the sound she is after. She wants something that is NOT a 100% accurate representation of her sound. Something she can back off on and have be nice and clean for the folk/acoustic stuff, and something she can hit a boost pedal and really dig into to get a little gritty for the rock/electric stuff. At the volumes we play at, a 30w amp will be more than enough. I've practiced with a 5w and a 15w amp, and while the 5w was dirty, the 15w was not dirty at all when played at our practice volumes, so I'm sure she'll be fine with 30w (or less).

I have considered the Bugera, but without playing anything from them, it's hard to want to take that leap. I might have to poke around some stores in the area to see if I can come up with one.

 

[lareplus]

Re: Doing some research, looking for an under 30w tube amp

For a full rich sound, you might consider a Fender Exelsior with a 15 inch speaker, 13 watt tube amp. You can mike the tube amp and you won't get the problems of mic'ing the violin direct, you will get the sound of the amp. These are new amps and growing in popularity, plus they are about the coolest looking amp you are going to see. . .very vintage looking. .

 

[Matt42]

Re: Doing some research, looking for an under 30w tube amp

I considered those too, but was concerned about the lack of tone controls. The good thing with that amp is that there is a store that carries them in town, so we can take her fiddle down there and plug it in.

Thanks for the suggestions everyone!

 

[RealtyViking]

Re: Doing some research, looking for an under 30w tube amp

Out of all the amps you list in your OP I like the Peavey Classic 30 the best for guitar. I think I would look for one to try with the violin and see how it sounds. There are good deals on the used market. If that works, another good amp to look at for the price would be the Crate Vintage Club 30.