drum machine vs software drums

[prophetofthor]

help! need thoughts/opinions.

i'm seriously looking at the boss dr 880. it goes for $500 new. what i really dig about the 880 is the "ez compose" and hands on buttons with no latency issues. the boss dr 880 also does ghost notes (that is killer). what i dont dig is no usb audio output (it does have spdif though) and small LCD screen (we live in the age of flat screen's damit).

my fear is that 2 months down the road all the sounds will start to sound the same. my most trusted software that i've used for years is fruity loops (now FL studio). when i use that i seem to get bogged down into programming and it takes forever to get something good (powerful program = lots of twiddling). i've heard nothing but glowing reviews for battery 3, but that is just a fancy sampler ( no "ez compose") and i will just end up auditioning 1000's of midi files with no end in sight.

in a perfect world i would like to have boss's hardware with"ez compose" with battery 3's sampling on a nice big flat screen.

i've tried/researched some software and some basic thoughts.

ez drummer (sounds good for 2 songs, you just have to flip thru 8000 midi files until you find something that somewhat matches).

groove agent (2, not 3. seems to busy and too "hands off". GA 3 has a hardware dongle and i'm not getting into that DRM crap)

jamstix (demo , dam if i could get the thing to make anything useful)

BFD (looks good, but it looks to me like an oversized sampler. i dont care about "virtual" microphone positions. i'm more concerned with groove and feel. again, jump into 2000 midi files and hope you find one that "matches")

i could make a mega post outa this, but i try to make orig music and i WANT drums bad. i come up some tunes and lack of drummer makes a huge roadblock. i am a DUMB guitar player, not midi keyboard programming geek. i dont like messing with midi files (er, moving dots around).

i like the work flow of the 880. it seems i can sit down with an instrument and write with it. but i'm scared of 2 months down the road being stuck with same ole sounds. (and $500 poorer). one the plus side it looks like and incredible practice machine. i could just program some chord progs, sit down and play.


ANYBODY have any happy endings with a drum machine/program type product?? ? ??

ANYONE?

 

[innerdreamrecords.co]

Re: drum machine vs software drums

Either way you're going to run into the same programming problems. When you say "original" most of the beats are generic either way. Midi is easier to adjust to something more interesting than a drum machine provided you are doing it on a computer. There isn't really a correct answer to your problem.

I just bought Addictive Drums and I'm now hunting down additional midi files for it. I like the program though.

 

[Virtual Kevorkian]

Re: drum machine vs software drums

Software based 100%. You've basically no control or flexibility with a hardware machine.

Just plug in your own midi by hand!

 

[ImmortalSix]

Re: drum machine vs software drums

Drumkit From Hell Superior.

Forum bro "bulb" uses it --- listen to his stuff and you'll be sold on it within the first ten seconds :laughing:

His soundclick page: http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=147108&content=music

 

[prophetofthor]

Re: drum machine vs software drums

i should of said "kick ass drum machine" vs software. from what i can see the boss dr 880 is a hell of a toy.

the boss dr 880 CAN import and export MIDI.

i'm placing workflow above sound. all of the the software drum things i've seen/heard sound great. i want workflow. i cant tell software (unless i'm looking at the wrong software) start me on a blues pattern, add some fills here and there, ending here. every software i've seen is midi patterns, drag and drop. i call this "go fish". you have 5000 (or whatever) midi patterns and you just "fish" through them hoping something will fit.

if i'm reading the boss dr 880 manual right, i can pick a pattern and choose to add accents to it. i can also pick high hat and kick/snare separately to meld them into 1 pattern, and then add accents or ghost/groove elements.

when i say "original music", i guess i should of been more specific. i'm not trying to create frank zappa stuff. pink floyd the wall was amazingly stupid simple drumming. i love it. i can definitely work with "basic" or "generic" patterns, but i like how the boss dr 880 can manipulate those simple patterns and "complicate" them. the kind of music i wanna make is blues based stuff. blues/funk/classic r&b/jazz/classic rock type stuff.

what i really like about the boss dr 880 is i think(hope) i can mess with it without even putting down my guitar. i've worked with midi files. i call it "playing with dots". i put down my guitar and start moving midi dots all over with my mouse and (computer) keyboard. and then i get frustrated and nothing gets done.

when i watch football i listen carefully to every commercial. you hear alot of good drums. i would guess 99% is drum machine/software drums, but it all sounds good. but more importantly, the professionally produced commercial spots sound f***ing groovy. the music moves.

i guess i'm asking for a drum smart workstation that i can work with. the boss dr 880 has alot of pro's and cons. i guess i'm asking for any software solutions that come close to boss dr 880's workflow.


keep the opinions/thoughts coming.

 

[innerdreamrecords.co]

Re: drum machine vs software drums

when i watch football i listen carefully to every commercial. you hear alot of good drums. i would guess 99% is drum machine/software drums, but it all sounds good. but more importantly, the professionally produced commercial spots sound f***ing groovy. the music moves.

I wouldn't be so sure about that, that it's all machines that is.

Sounds like the 880's your ticket to me, all the software operates similar. In Addictive Drums you can audition the midi file before you drag it into a song though.

 

[prophetofthor]

Re: drum machine vs software drums

wow,

speaking of watching football. i just saw the "national anthem" on monday night football and it was horrible. apparently the crowd agreed with me and booed the poor girl on national tv. wow. o well i guess thats why you shouldnt treat the national anthem like an audition for American idol (er American karoke).

i cant drop names, because i dont know anyone really famous. but i have seen "behind the scenes" on some guys that do commercial jingles and general music production. some of them used electric drum kits (the real expensive ones). others used drum machines (MPC). i just can't imagine making a 30 sec rock song for a nike commercial and booking a monster studio and a monster drummer for a 30 sec clip. i used to date a chick that listened to drum and bass. i was amazed at the drum sounds and groove some of those songs had. and as far as i know the DnB guys use reason or some kinda sequencer/sampler thing. no drums.

like i said. i'm a dumb guitar guy. i know what a sampler is. dam if i can use it worth a dam.

addictive drums. exactly what i'm talking about. go fish. here are your rock patterns. hopefully one of them works. not to knock anyone who uses that program, but damit, i need groove and workflow.

 

[innerdreamrecords.co]

Re: drum machine vs software drums

i need groove and workflow

Get the 880 and make music and quit your *****in. LOL J/K

I use to make dance music and there is a TON of drum programming that goes into making good tracks. And, if you're doing a 30 second spot for Nike you're getting paid plenty to go to a studio and do drums.

There isn't a mind reading drum machine yet...or band member for that matter.

 

[34029324079]

Re: drum machine vs software drums

im in the same boat - dunno what to do about drums ....????

my drums are real basic but are freeware. so I am happy about that. but ya...alot of room for improvment...bulb and virtual kevorkians stuff sounds fricking awesome....

guess one day Ill have to step up to the bat and throw some money and time at it and make it better...

 

[innerdreamrecords.co]

Re: drum machine vs software drums

2 months down the road being stuck with same ole sounds.

This is going to be the case unless you can use your own samples with it as well.

 

[Virtual Kevorkian]

Re: drum machine vs software drums

It really boils down to taste, then. For me, my workflow is greatly enhanced by being able to directly control each and every individual hit - I'd die if I had to use pre-made patterns.

 

[Yngwiestein]

Re: drum machine vs software drums

I've been tossing this idea around lately and came to the conclusion that I'll just buy an electric drumset and learn how to play. You can do all the recording/MIDI/direct stuff with those so forget tapping little pads on a drum machine and programming 4 measure beats piece by piece until you put together a whole song! YUCK!

My knowledge is very limited obviously but the electric drum set sounds like a viable and useful alternative. Thoughts?

 

[innerdreamrecords.co]

Re: drum machine vs software drums

I've been tossing this idea around lately and came to the conclusion that I'll just buy an electric drumset and learn how to play. You can do all the recording/MIDI/direct stuff with those so forget tapping little pads on a drum machine and programming 4 measure beats piece by piece until you put together a whole song! YUCK!

My knowledge is very limited obviously but the electric drum set sounds like a viable and useful alternative. Thoughts?

That's a great idea and a lot of guys do it. I want to learn the drums someday...

 

[NoOnesFang13]

Re: drum machine vs software drums

I've been tossing this idea around lately and came to the conclusion that I'll just buy an electric drumset and learn how to play. You can do all the recording/MIDI/direct stuff with those so forget tapping little pads on a drum machine and programming 4 measure beats piece by piece until you put together a whole song! YUCK!

My knowledge is very limited obviously but the electric drum set sounds like a viable and useful alternative. Thoughts?

so would a cheap POS electic set be able to sound good if you have some good patches on the computer? if so sign me up, i cant ever figure out stuff by tapping it i have it in my head so it would be easier to play

 

[innerdreamrecords.co]

Re: drum machine vs software drums

so would a cheap POS electic set be able to sound good if you have some good patches on the computer? if so sign me up, i cant ever figure out stuff by tapping it i have it in my head so it would be easier to play

If you use an electronic kit to record midi files on your computer then use something like Battery or another sampler with Steven Slate drum samples it could sound great.

 

[saladin]

Re: drum machine vs software drums

I've used drum machines for years and I only use FL Studio for my drum sounds now. Take some time and learn to program it, it works the same as any drum machine, I think you'd get bored real fast with the limitations of a drum machine. The beauty of a program like FL Studio is that you do have the power to create your own beats, which is always better then using pre programmed samples.

 

[arbiter]

Re: drum machine vs software drums

addictive drums. doing a studio album on it. what more to say?

 

[DankStar]

Re: drum machine vs software drums

I'd have to say drum machines are kinda a thing of the past compared to what you can do with software. I settled on EZ Drummer for the price.

No matter how you slice it, drums take time to tweak to match the song to sound good, somewhat real, and lively no matter what you're using.

I love the idea of premade loops/midi patterns, but out of 8000, there's like 3 that seem to match whatever song I'm working on. I end up having to go in and fiddle, create from scratch, etc.

I tried to do the build-an-electronic-kit-yourself thing and it basically FAILED.

 

[millsart]

Re: drum machine vs software drums

Can't beat the Akai MPC sequencer/samplers for being able to lay down some beats. I suck at programming but am a pretty good "finger drummer" on those great feeling veleocity sensative pads.

MPC's just have a certain "groove" to them as well. Its hard to describe what it is exactly, but they are defnatly the drum machine of choice for most hip hop and r&b producers, the users most likely to program drums instead of use a live drummer as much rock and metal producers would.

 

[prophetofthor]

Re: drum machine vs software drums

thank you all for the replies and good info.

but i believe i've found something i can try. check this out.

http://www.toontrack.com/ezplayer_pro.asp

finally some software work flow that i was talking about. i can use ANY sampler/software drums and even add midi files. i dont have to suffer with a tiny LCD on a drum machine. still have to take hands off my guitar, but it allows midi "learn" to some functions that i can map to a midi controller. i watched the demo video and it pretty much sold me.

and get this, , , ,, $40 as opposed to $500 for the drum machine i was looking at.

lemme know what you guys think.