Duane Allman tones? 59n or Jazz?

[Wound_Up]

Getting ready to order some pickups and I'm trying to decide between the 59 neck and jazz neck humbuckers. Which would get me closer to Skydogs tone without considering the Antiquities pickups or something custom? I'm not looking to reproduce his sound note for note. I don't have the money to head down that rabbithole lol. Just looking for something that'll get me close.

Thanks.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Wow...I'd think you could make either work depending on the rest of your rig. My first thought was the 59 , but it can tend to have a boomy bass in some guitars. Allman's tones sound pretty tone-ballanced to me so to be safe (without knowing the tonal characteristics of your guitar) I'd say go with the Jazz

 

[Lewguitar]

I'd go for pickups with roughcast alnico 2 magnets and that would be the Antiquity. Or buy an uncovered 59N and also purchase a roughcast A2 magnet from Addiction FX and replace the magnet in the 59N.

Derek Trucks also tends to use paf style humbuckers with A2 magnets.

The stock magnet in a 59 is polished A5 and lacks the chewy mids and smooth highs of a paf with roughcast A2.

It's a great pickup tho, especially if you do a magnet swap.

I wouldn't use a Jazz for Duane's sound. Too bright and clear.

Duane did play a lot of slide on a Gibson SG with alnico 5 Gibson humbuckers.

But Duane would probably sound like Duane even if he was playing through a humbucker made in Korea!

 

[Mincer]

My choice would be the Alnico II Pro, which really gets that sound in an LP, and at a good price, too. It does a lot more than Slash...I think it can cover any classic ABB tone, really.

 

[Securb]

But Duane would probably sound like Duane even if he was playing through a humbucker made in Korea!

I have to agree with Lew I don't think a pickup gets you there. Warren Haynes doesn't sound like Duane and he has access to any gear he wants. I would think any of the aforementioned pickups might get you close but 90% of Duanes tone was in the fingers and his approach. Duane studied a ton of John Coltrane and transposed a lot of his sax solos. Hence Duane's unique tone and sound was his approach to the guitar as if it was a sax, which changed his timber and vibrato. This is one small consideration when chasing his tone.

 

[Ace Flibble]

The '59 is definitely too heavy on the bass while the Jazz is definitely too heavy on the treble for this kind of sound.
For standard-price pickups off the shelf, nothing custom or boutique, grab the Alnico II Pro Neck if your guitar has a naturally brighter tone or the Pearly Gates Neck if your guitar is a little on the dark side and needs some extra top-end. Allman's favourite humbuckers, he had transplanted from this goldtop to his burst LP, were most likely A3s; Gibson was using magnets pretty randomly at the time but with everything else known about his amps and how he recorded, the output of A3 magnets seems most likely. Using a more modern A2 wind, like the A2P or PG, and then lowering the pickup further from the strings than you usually would will get you close to the A3 sound (which is just a little tighter and brighter than A2), or at least as close as you can get without taking pickups apart and/or buying custom shop or boutique pickups.
If you're open to modifying pickups then grab a set of Seth Lovers as your non-specific PAF baseline and a variety of A2, A3 and A4 magnets, and start mag-swapping; again, A3 is your most likely bet but there are good cases to be made for A4 or more unusual casts & sizes of A2, depending on the natural tone of your guitar and what it needs to balance it. Allman's guitars always sound very even, especially the Les Pauls and the SG.

However, as the others have said, most of what defines the sound of his playing is... well, his playing. And his amps, of course, especially how even for studio recording they were often maxed out on top of having all the inputs jumped. He picked his goldtop and Les Paul out for their looks and he transplanted the pickups from one to the other allegedly only for the sake of recording consistency. So don't get too hung up on the pickups, they're really one of if not the most minor part of getting in the Allman ballpark.

 

[jeremy]

is this for a les paul? whats your amp? 50w nmv marshall? if its a les paul, get a set of seths and go play music.

 

[Ascension]

To my ear the Saturday Night Specials. The attack is spot on with the A4's to my ears. Have 2 sets of them BTW.

 

[jeremy]

i like the sns but the bridge is too hot for an old duane tone. a4 seths could do it though. gotta remember (live at least) its a 50w marshall turned up LOUD! the pups themselves werent that hot in the gt or cb.

 

[Lewguitar]

i like the sns but the bridge is too hot for an old duane tone. a4 seths could do it though. gotta remember (live at least) its a 50w marshall turned up LOUD! the pups themselves werent that hot in the gt or cb.

That's what I have in my Seths. Roughcast A4. Don't have a Marshall though. Or anywhere to turn it up if I did.

 

[Wound_Up]

I have to agree with Lew I don't think a pickup gets you there. Warren Haynes doesn't sound like Duane and he has access to any gear he wants. I would think any of the aforementioned pickups might get you close but 90% of Duanes tone was in the fingers and his approach. Duane studied a ton of John Coltrane and transposed a lot of his sax solos. Hence Duane's unique tone and sound was his approach to the guitar as if it was a sax, which changed his timber and vibrato. This is one small consideration when chasing his tone.

His slide playing specifically was based on harp playing, as well. According to Dickey, anyway. Dickey said Duane told him all the time that "Slide aint about guitar. It's about harmonica" and you can, hear it in his music. Especially on songs with a harp in it, too.

To me, his music is almost magical. I know I won't ever sound like him. No one will. But I'm still asking the question lol. Though hearing Ben McLeod play Statesboro Blues on Duane's SG at Songbirds really #HitTheNote. He was ON IT!


https://youtu.be/HCNhP1CZluc

Thanks, yall. I was also considering the Alnico 2s since that's what likely came in the 57 G7oldtop he had. These are going into a Goldtop, as well. Just not a Gibson. Though it is all mahogany with mahog set neck, 17.5mm maple cap, and rosewood fretboard. No Marshall either. It's just a 12" 15w Monoprice combo tube amp which is a Laney Cub 12R clone. 3-12AX7s and 2-EL84s with a 3 band eq and tone control.

I really appreciate the help and opinions, yall. Thank you!

 

[Lewguitar]

His slide playing specifically was based on harp playing, as well. According to Dickey, anyway. Dickey said Duane told him all the time that "Slide aint about guitar. It's about harmonica" and you can, hear it in his music. Especially on songs with a harp in it, too.

To me, his music is almost magical. I know I won't ever sound like him. No one will. But I'm still asking the question lol.

Thanks, yall. I was also considering the Alnico 2s since that's what likely came in the 57 Goldtop he had. These are going into a Goldtop, as well. Just not a Gibson. Though it is all mahogany with mahog set neck, 17.5mm maple cap, and rosewood fretboard.

I really appreciate the help and opinions, yall. Thank you!

I agree with you about the '57 Goldtop probably having alnico 2 humbuckers. When he traded for a '59, he insisted on swapping the pickups out of the '57 and putting them in the '59.

The '59 probably had alnico 4 or 5 humbuckers.

Duane liked the sound of what was in the '57 better and those were probably sandcast/roughcast anico 2.

I like alnico 2 better than alnico 4 too.

Which is why I like the Antiquitys and why I put roughcast alnico 2 in my 59's.

 

[Wound_Up]

Couldn't get the link to work properly. So, here it is again.

Ben Mcleod playing Statesboro Blues @ Fillmore East note for note on Duane's 61 SG at Songbirds

 

[jeremy]

that was really good. tone is too dirty and thick but they playing is spot on

 

[Lewguitar]

that was really good. tone is too dirty and thick but they playing is spot on

Almost sounds like two guitars. Is he using a doubler or is it two guitars doubled up? He'd have to play it twice exactly the same way to double it. That'd be difficult!

 

[jeremy]

i think he was playing along to the recording so you hear duane and this guy playing at the same time

 

[Lewguitar]

i think he was playing along to the recording so you hear duane and this guy playing at the same time

So the tune is in the key of D but Duane is tuned to open E.

 

[jeremy]

correct