Dummy Coil Wiring
- Thread starter idsnowdog
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beaubrummels
Well-known member
Re: Dummy Coil Wiring
With the middle pickup out of phase, wouldn’t you need the dummy phase to be automatic for the center position (maybe even automatic off for the 2-4 combined positions)?
With the middle pickup out of phase, wouldn’t you need the dummy phase to be automatic for the center position (maybe even automatic off for the 2-4 combined positions)?
idsnowdog
Imperator of Indignation
Re: Dummy Coil Wiring
What I was hoping to do with the on/off/on switch was to have phase reversal in the on positions so I could hum cancel for all three pickups and then have it off in the center for 2/4 positions. The neck and bridge are Duncan while the middle is Fender so they have the right phase relationship.
Artie
Peaveyologist
Re: Dummy Coil Wiring
No, it won't. Gimme a sec to figure it out completely. In the 1st "up" position, the dummy coil is disconnected on the hot side. No problem. On the middle position, both the dummy coil and the 5-way are disconnected. (Guitar dead.) I don't think that's what you want. In the 3rd "down" position, the dummy coil is in series with the output of the 5-way. I don't think that's what you want either. I think you want it in parallel.
Gimme . . . gimme a minute or two.
No, it won't. Gimme a sec to figure it out completely. In the 1st "up" position, the dummy coil is disconnected on the hot side. No problem. On the middle position, both the dummy coil and the 5-way are disconnected. (Guitar dead.) I don't think that's what you want. In the 3rd "down" position, the dummy coil is in series with the output of the 5-way. I don't think that's what you want either. I think you want it in parallel.
Gimme . . . gimme a minute or two.
beaubrummels
Well-known member
Re: Dummy Coil Wiring
+1 Artie beat me to it.
+1 Artie beat me to it.
idsnowdog
Imperator of Indignation
Re: Dummy Coil Wiring
Thanks for the diagram. I also found this picture of an Emerson 5-way blender circuit. It looks like there are two versions of the circuit. Can you see any advantage between the two versions? Is the first version supposed to emulate 50's wiring?
Thanks for the diagram. I also found this picture of an Emerson 5-way blender circuit. It looks like there are two versions of the circuit. Can you see any advantage between the two versions? Is the first version supposed to emulate 50's wiring?
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beaubrummels
Well-known member
Re: Dummy Coil Wiring
The first one looks like one tone for bridge/middle and the other tone for neck. The second looks like the same 50’s blend you have in your initial drawing.
The first one looks like one tone for bridge/middle and the other tone for neck. The second looks like the same 50’s blend you have in your initial drawing.
beaubrummels
Well-known member
Re: Dummy Coil Wiring
The first one isnt straight vanilla fender though. The middle tone is bridged across to the bridge pickup, so it’s kind of mod.
The first one isnt straight vanilla fender though. The middle tone is bridged across to the bridge pickup, so it’s kind of mod.
beaubrummels
Well-known member
Re: Dummy Coil Wiring
I think you need a tapped dummy coil. It has to match the number of turns to cancel, no?
I think you need a tapped dummy coil. It has to match the number of turns to cancel, no?
idsnowdog
Imperator of Indignation
Re: Dummy Coil Wiring
I have seen varying advice on the dummy coils resistance. Some say 50-80% so it removes the majority of hum but doesn't mess with the tone too badly. While an article I once read about Ritchie Blackmore's yellow strat by his guitar tech said that he prefers to have a dummy coil which is 2K more than the pickups. Having a mismatch in the coil's resistance isn't necessarily a problem when you consider hybrid humbucker with asymmetric coils. I have seen demos on youtube but none of those people will show you a diagram. Some have parallel coils while others I guess would be series. I guess I'm not sure with the phase reversal that I have what the phase relationship would be in both positions? I know it will be series in one direction but I'm not sure if the other direction is parallel or not? I was just thinking that if the effect was too much on the middle and neck a mini trimmer pot might allow me to tweak the amount of humbucking the coil does in certain switch positions.
freefrog
Well-known member
Re: Dummy Coil Wiring
I agree with you about assymmetric coils and here is why: the ability of a dummy coil to cancel the hum has nothing to do with its resistance.
It has to do with its number of turns IF and only IF the dimensions and shape of the coil are the same than those of the "noisy" pickup.
If the dummy coil is smaller than the noisy one, it will need more turns... and/or some iron core(s) to increase its "antinoise".
If the dummy coil covers a wider area than the noisy pickup, it will require less turns, less resistance. I have currently an "air coil" mounted in my experimental guitar: it makes almost totally silent a 13k single coil albeit the air coil measures... 255 Ohm (but it's laid in a peripherical routing measuring 23cm *15cm).
FWIW.
I agree with you about assymmetric coils and here is why: the ability of a dummy coil to cancel the hum has nothing to do with its resistance.
It has to do with its number of turns IF and only IF the dimensions and shape of the coil are the same than those of the "noisy" pickup.
If the dummy coil is smaller than the noisy one, it will need more turns... and/or some iron core(s) to increase its "antinoise".
If the dummy coil covers a wider area than the noisy pickup, it will require less turns, less resistance. I have currently an "air coil" mounted in my experimental guitar: it makes almost totally silent a 13k single coil albeit the air coil measures... 255 Ohm (but it's laid in a peripherical routing measuring 23cm *15cm).
FWIW.
idsnowdog
Imperator of Indignation
Re: Dummy Coil Wiring
My dummy coil started as a coil with slugs but I removed them not knowing if I wanted them or not? I did some experimentation this morning and a 7k resistor in parallel can halve the value of the coil. What I am unsure of though is how I could wire it parallel so that it only is applied to the neck and middle positions when the dummy coil is engaged?
My dummy coil started as a coil with slugs but I removed them not knowing if I wanted them or not? I did some experimentation this morning and a 7k resistor in parallel can halve the value of the coil. What I am unsure of though is how I could wire it parallel so that it only is applied to the neck and middle positions when the dummy coil is engaged?
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freefrog
Well-known member
Re: Dummy Coil Wiring
If I can contribute without interfering too much: Artie did say it in his answer 4 and it seems logical, since an on/off/on switch make impossible a switchable series connection.
If you use(d) an on/on switch for OOP and another on/on switch (possibly a push pull) to enable/disable the dummy, series connection would be doable (with the added 7k resistor that you want if needed)
@ArtieToo: this answer is trying to ease the online help process and not to compete with your replies. Take back the control stick when you want to.
If I can contribute without interfering too much: Artie did say it in his answer 4 and it seems logical, since an on/off/on switch make impossible a switchable series connection.
If you use(d) an on/on switch for OOP and another on/on switch (possibly a push pull) to enable/disable the dummy, series connection would be doable (with the added 7k resistor that you want if needed)
@ArtieToo: this answer is trying to ease the online help process and not to compete with your replies. Take back the control stick when you want to.
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Artie
Peaveyologist
Re: Dummy Coil Wiring
No prob man. I need all the help I can get.
I personally, have never used a dummy coil. I think the newer noise-cancelling singles catch the vintage vibe pretty good. So I assume it's supposed to be wired in parallel. Remember, a standard humbucker remains noiseless whether in series or parallel.
@ArtieToo: this answer is trying to ease the online help process and not to compete with your replies. Take back the control stick when you want to.
No prob man. I need all the help I can get.
I personally, have never used a dummy coil. I think the newer noise-cancelling singles catch the vintage vibe pretty good. So I assume it's supposed to be wired in parallel. Remember, a standard humbucker remains noiseless whether in series or parallel.
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