Duncan/Ibanez middle position volume problem

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rbmk

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Hi Everyone. I have an older Ibanez SZR520 with stock "Duncan/Ibanez" pickups...two humbuckers. The specs, I believe can be found here (Offshore Made).

I'm fine with their tone, but I have a problem with volume. When I have both pickups on (middle position of 3-way), the volume is much lower than it is with either of the pickups selected by itself.

To me, it doesn't sound like an out-of-phase issue...the sound is fine (has plenty of lower and mid tone to it). It's just.....quiet. I'd say at least 30% quieter.

Ideas on what would cause this and how it could be fixed? I'll probably replace the pickups someday, but that's not in the budget right now.
 
Re: Duncan/Ibanez middle position volume problem

How is the middle position wired. Are the HBs wired in series, parallel? Is there any auto coil split? Do you have wiring diagram for this guitar?
 
Re: Duncan/Ibanez middle position volume problem

Those are all very good questions...and things I probably should have checked into for sure before I posted. I don't have a wiring diagram, so I'll look at it tonight. Thanks for the response.
 
Re: Duncan/Ibanez middle position volume problem

According to a little diagram in the back pages of the 2006 catalogue, the SZ selector switch offers, bridge PU, inside coils, neck PU.

That centre selection is trying the same "humbucker guitar pretending to sound like a Stratocaster" trick as a PRS Custom. Unfortunately, the wide difference in pickup output levels and the distance between the coils means that it never sounds quite right. In short, it is supposed to sound less powerful than either the neck or bridge PU alone.

The simplest solution is to disconnect the coil tapping wires of each pickup from the selector switch and insulate the exposed ends. The nett result will be a straightforward bridge/both/neck rock 'n' roll guitar.
 
Re: Duncan/Ibanez middle position volume problem

Thanks! Yes, it does appear to be wired that way. Would the coil tapping wires be the red and white ones? (I think that's standard for a SD pickup) Should they be twisted together and insulated or insulated separately? Twisting them together would put them in series, correct?

Sorry if it seems like a dumb question, but my only previous wiring experience was when I put two SD humbuckers in a guitar I was building. I went with a straight-ahead no-nonsense setup...wiring in series with a LP-style switch. This complex switch block frightens and confuses my caveman-like mentality.
 
Re: Duncan/Ibanez middle position volume problem

SZR.png


if you put it in the middle position
where the inside coils are on
plugged into and amp
then lightly touch the pole ends with a screw driver
you will be able to hear
which two coils are actually on

if it is the inside coils then they may be in parallel instead of series
we'll get to that once we check that the inside coils are indeed on
 
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Re: Duncan/Ibanez middle position volume problem

rbmk said:
Thanks! Yes, it does appear to be wired that way. Would the coil tapping wires be the red and white ones? (I think that's standard for a SD pickup) Should they be twisted together and insulated or insulated separately? Twisting them together would put them in series, correct?

Sorry if it seems like a dumb question, but my only previous wiring experience was when I put two SD humbuckers in a guitar I was building. I went with a straight-ahead no-nonsense setup...wiring in series with a LP-style switch. This complex switch block frightens and confuses my caveman-like mentality.
Click to expand...

Assuming that the SD/IBZ humbuckers follow the SD four conductor + shield wiring convention, the twisted together red and white wires need to remain linked to each other but not to the portion of the selector switch that automates the coil tapping.

A photograph of the switch would have helped here because I suspect that there may be an even simpler solution.

Leave the red/white coil-tapping conductor cables exactly where they are. Instead, just disconnect (and insulate) the wire that completes the path from both PU tap wires via the selector switch and on to ground. No path to ground = no coil tapping. More importantly, only one wire requires desoldering. Less chance of insulation getting melted et cetera. Less work required to reinstate the original circuit if/when the time comes.

*

I have not seen a schematic circuit diagram for the Ibanez SZ. My guess is that the selector switch has either six, nine or twelve contacts. If I am correct about this, the part of the switch that handles the automatic coil-tapping should have a single grounding cable running to either a grounding lug or the chassis of one of the control pots. If this the case, desoldering the lug/pot end of the coil tap grounding cable is far wiser than poking about with your soldering iron between the numerous contacts of the selector switch.
 
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Re: Duncan/Ibanez middle position volume problem

maybe if you reversed both the hots and the grounds
so that the outside pair came on instead of the inside pair

EDIT
Funkfingers
I believe this would be the switch in question
3SW12A0002_12_01.jpg
 
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Re: Duncan/Ibanez middle position volume problem

ehdwuld said:
EDIT
Funkfingers, I believe this would be the switch in question
3SW12A0002_12_01.jpg
Click to expand...

Thank you for the photo, ehdwuld. That is a twelve contact 4P3T switch. Try to visualise it as two DP3T switches fused together.

On the Ibanez SZ, one set of six contacts selects which of the pickups is on. The second set of six contacts handles the automatic coil tapping. (This is where the twisted together red and white pickup conductor wires will be soldered into circuit.)

Amongst the set of six coil-tapping contacts, there will be a common grounding wire running from the switch to a grounding point somewhere within the control cavity.

The simplest way to disable the automatic coil-tapping function is to disconnect and insulate the pot chassis/lug/whatever end of this grounding wire.
 
Re: Duncan/Ibanez middle position volume problem

in the 2 Ibanez guitars I own the red/ white/ bare wires
red is hot on the V-series pickups and White is hot on the INF-series
on each the "other" one is where the split

they are pre connected under some shrink tubing and sent out as a single wire

in either case each pickup would have two wires going to the switch

remove both whites (note where they are) see what happens

if ya sound single coily on the neck alone and bridge alone ya got the wrong ones
put em back do the others

let us know what happens
 
Re: Duncan/Ibanez middle position volume problem

^
True but of no assistance to rbmk.

This schematic from the Ibanez website should help both rmbk and edhwuld. (On the V and INF pickups, there will only be one wire per PU for the coil tapping function.)

http://www.ibanez.com/supportResources/wiring/2007/SZ520QM.pdf

Judging by this, the common grounding wire from the coil-tapping half of the PU selector switch runs to the chassis of the nearest volume pot.
 
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Re: Duncan/Ibanez middle position volume problem

hmmm
apparently on the duncan/ibz pickups the single tap lead doesnt apply

thank you Mr Funkfingers
I am again in your debt
 
Re: Duncan/Ibanez middle position volume problem

Hi guys. I tried to get a bunch of this info months ago for my second-hand SZ320 to no avail.

I rewired the whole thing, because I had to buy a new All-Parts 12 pole switch (there was a 3-way in it when I got it).

Is there any possibility that the All-Parts switch could function differently than the original? I ask because I am 100% sure I wired it right, but in the middle position I get no sound. Both individual pickups work on their own, but there is some weird hum volume increase depending on the location of guitar - something is wrong (60 cycle hum).

In any case, I would be up for what the OP did - just make the middle selection both PU's - so to reiterate, the common grounding wire on the switch stays, but is disconnected on its other end, then insulated? Thanks...
 
Re: Duncan/Ibanez middle position volume problem

oh the thing I wanted to tell you is it is very likely that the two switches are different
I am not familiar with either of them at all

but if you have a meter

we can find the common poles
(wire the hot from the volume there)

and which legs are hot in which positions
(wire pickups there)

sorry lost track of the thread
my bad
 
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