Dynamics and output level. Are unwaxed humbuckers are good for metal?

C

CarlosG

New member
Hi!
Up to what point the output level is irrelevant to the dynamics.
As we all know, high output will be clearly less dynamic and articulate than PAF.
But what about medium output?
Is there a limit up to which the humbucker has more signal but does not lose dynamics, or does higher power simply mean lower dynamics?
Someone once recommended me the 59/Custom hybrid, saying that it has more power but still the dynamics of the low output ones.

Another issue is unwaxed humbuckers.
Are they not designed for metal? will they squeak?
What makes them sound cleaner than waxed ones and why are they more dynamic and respond better to articulation?
Best regards!
 
It depends on your rig. The reason PAFs are so dynamic is mostly because they are quieter. There's a bit more to it, but the biggest reason why high output pickups are usually less dynamic is because every amplifier has an input level where everything above that level will be distorted and the same volume, PAFs can very easily duck under that threshold when you play quietly, but a lot of times even when you play quieter a high output pickup will be at the volume where it distorts the amp.

As for waxed versus unwaxed, I'll leave that to someone else to explain better than me.
 
a waxed coil is in my opinion mandatory for everything. The loose wires will shift and that will squeek. A waxed cover, same thing. I truly hate unpotted pickups. They're imho totally useless since they feedback so easily, even with bedroom volume levels.
 
I don't like unpotted pickups either. People often describe them as more open and dynamic, but it's so easy for them to become uncontrollable, especially for Metal, especially at band levels. For my style of playing and the tones I'm going for, I'd rather have a pickup I can actually use.
 
I love unpotted pickups, but they would be terrible for metal. Metal isn't as dynamic as other music styles like blues or jazz, and doesn't depend on touch sensitivity like those styles. High gain and high volume= use potted pickups.
 
I expected different takes on these questions. Here is mine... :-)

*amp or pedals inputs aside, high output doesn't necessarily mean less dynamics for a passive pickup. The strongest magnetic alloys are also those with the least ferrous content, causing less Foucault currents. On this basis, a same (pair of) coil(s) should give a faster signal + more potential amplitude (IOW: more dynamics) with a ceramic magnet than with an AlNico bar.

*What gives an impression of squashed dynamics (IOW: of compression) with high output pickups is not their magnetic profile, therefore, but rather the properties of their coils: high resistance / inductance / stray capacitance contribute altogether to a slower signal with less potential amplitude and more "inertia" (sustain). These properties are most often increased altogether while the number of turns rises...

*On these basis, more output without loss of dynamics seems possible: it requires a strong magnetism with the least possible eddy currents + low or moderate LRC values (albeit the sound might appear as too crisp / trebly / thin / harsh if ALL these conditions are present in a same product. Try a ceramic bar in some unpotted hand wound HB and you should see what I mean).

*IME and therefore IMHO, wax potting is not systematically needed: dozens of famous tunes were recorded with unpotted Gibson humbuckers in cranked Marshalls.

Now, potting became a routine to avoid squealing with high gain so, yes, of course, unpotted pickups always risk to squeal in some situations...

I say "risk" because 1) it depends on the frequencies involved and due to the rig + acoustics of the place where one plays and 2) a tightly wound pickup without ANY loose part shouldn't squeal... But it's not that easy to achieve and potentially not compatible with mass production - or to keep in a pickup whose parts have been swapped several times. ;-)

*What makes unpotted coils cleaner and with more dynamics is their whole design. The unpotted aspect is just a spec among others, involving magnetic and LRC properties as evoked above.
That said, wax has a higher dielectric constant than air. So potting a pickup rises the dielectric constant of the coil(s). So stray capacitance increases and it affects a tiny wee bit the crispness of the signal.
And of course, the microphony of unpotted coils causing squeal is what makes a humbucker "touch sensitive" with clean / low gain tones. :-)


FWIW. More later, maybe. Right now, the "dynamics" of real life is calling me. ;-)
 
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I generally play at lower gain levels and have found that I really enjoy the feel of unpotted PAF level humbuckers for this . . . but they will howl at higher gain/volume settings. Higher gain and low volume works alright, and higher volume with low gain also works fine.
 
Mincer said:
I love unpotted pickups, but they would be terrible for metal. Metal isn't as dynamic as other music styles like blues or jazz, and doesn't depend on touch sensitivity like those styles. High gain and high volume= use potted pickups.
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I don't know how you do it. I play country nowadays, and a lot of blues, and I can't handle the pickup without being potted. Even my singlecoils (tele) needs to be potted. I hate the squeel.
 
orpheo said:
I don't know how you do it. I play country nowadays, and a lot of blues, and I can't handle the pickup without being potted. Even my singlecoils (tele) needs to be potted. I hate the squeel.
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I never get any. But my rig is a clean Deluxe Reverb on 3-4 with about a 'Tube Screamer with gain up to 8'- level of gain.
 
i use uppotted pups much of the time and dont have issues. think classic rock gain levels and stage volume loud enough to get over a heavy hitting drummer. wouldnt be my choice for playing metal though
 
Mincer said:
Metal isn't as dynamic as other music styles like blues or jazz, and doesn't depend on touch sensitivity like those styles.
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Rex_Rocker said:
Yeah, Mikael Akerfeldt, for one, would highly disagree.

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There's a heavily compressed acoustic for quiet parts, and a heavily distorted gutiar for the rest. You might make an argument for touch sensitivity, but there isn't much in the way of dynamics on the guitar tone - everything is squashed to the same volume by the comp or the gain.
 
GuitarStv said:
There's a heavily compressed acoustic for quiet parts, and a heavily distorted gutiar for the rest. You might make an argument for touch sensitivity, but there isn't much in the way of dynamics on the guitar tone - everything is squashed to the same volume by the comp or the gain.
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Not when they play live though, and use the same guitar for the whole song.
 
Wolfshead said:
Not when they play live though, and use the same guitar for the whole song.
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I've never listened to the artist before, and was only responding to the posted music . . . there's very little dynamic range on any of the guitar tone in the clip. He may well sound completely different live.
 
Stomping on your stomp box for a louder more distorted tone during higher intensity parts of your song is not the same as having a pickup that has a wide range of volumes depending on how hard you hit the strings.
 
For whatever it's worth, I haven't bothered repotting any of mine after magnet swaps, and only one has exhibited a tendency to squeal at higher volume with a bunch of preamp gain - not a problem at moderate volume. If my #1 started squealing and I was in a position to start playing live again, I would re-pot it, but I just had it out at a jam a couple weeks ago and it was fine.

Metal sounds are not a high gain monolith. They never have been. But looking for "dynamics" on a mastered recording heard via YouTube is a mug's game.

I also think "dynamics" in metal guitar sounds is better understood as shades of dirt, from cleaner to more aggressive, not as actual volume differences.

Carlos has said a few times how much he loves the JB. I've only ever played normal production JBs. I've never played one of the mythical "good ones". They are great (IMO) for Dirt-era Alice In Chains sounds and some early 90s death metal but they're not "dynamic"in any sense. They feel compressed. That's what makes them good for leads, but that also keeps them from being good all-rounders in my setup. I've found a lot more "dynamics" and better detail in a similar output range with handwound pickups. I'll recommend BKP's Rebel Yell till I'm blue in the face.
 
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I’d say metal has tons of dynamics—maybe even more than jazz or blues in some cases. Techniques like palm muting (not just for heavy chords but also in solos), tapping that needs a delicate touch, and using high-gain amps where harmonics are way more intense all play a big part in shaping your sound. Controlling those harmonics and using feedback creatively is basically its own art form.

When it comes to dynamic metal players, Tony Iommi pretty much wrote the book on switching between quietly eerie chords and bone-crushing riffs. Randy Rhoads threw in his classical influences, making his solos rise and fall dramatically. Then there’s Dimebag Darrell, John Petrucci, and Marty Friedman, who blend softer sections with massive, distortion-heavy passages without ever losing their musicality.

I’ve played jazz, blues, and metal myself, and I can tell you that paying attention to dynamics really makes your playing stand out. Of course, there are still metal guitarists who just stomp on a pedal and go full blast—just like some jazz or blues players who stick to the same sound during an entire recording or their whole career. Ultimately, it’s not about the genre; it’s about whether you, as a player, want to explore every level of volume and tone your guitar can handle.​
 
Yes, I hear dynamics in metal on recordings. But every metal show I've been to, from local/regional to Big 4 thrash to Sabbath with many different eras live, it has been a wall of sound. Compressed to hell.
 
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