Dynamics and output level. Are unwaxed humbuckers are good for metal?

[GuitarStv]

I’d say metal has tons of dynamics—maybe even more than jazz or blues in some cases. Techniques like palm muting (not just for heavy chords but also in solos), tapping that needs a delicate touch, and using high-gain amps where harmonics are way more intense all play a big part in shaping your sound. Controlling those harmonics and using feedback creatively is basically its own art form.

When it comes to dynamic metal players, Tony Iommi pretty much wrote the book on switching between quietly eerie chords and bone-crushing riffs. Randy Rhoads threw in his classical influences, making his solos rise and fall dramatically. Then there’s Dimebag Darrell, John Petrucci, and Marty Friedman, who blend softer sections with massive, distortion-heavy passages without ever losing their musicality.

I’ve played jazz, blues, and metal myself, and I can tell you that paying attention to dynamics really makes your playing stand out. Of course, there are still metal guitarists who just stomp on a pedal and go full blast—just like some jazz or blues players who stick to the same sound during an entire recording or their whole career. Ultimately, it’s not about the genre; it’s about whether you, as a player, want to explore every level of volume and tone your guitar can handle.​

I think we're running with different definitions here.

Dynamics is difference in volume between the loudest and quietest sounds. As soon as stuff starts distorting (or you use compression) you are limiting dynamics. Once you have a very heavily saturated tone, there is typically almost nothing left as far as dynamics go. Clean to edge of breakup tones let you significantly alter the volume of the guitar with your touch on the strings, folks who play with these tones tend to be better at using this to good effect in their music.

What you're calling 'dynamics' is what I think of as touch sensitivity - it's the ability to get different sounds/tones from an instrument by varying your touch. Palm muting vs playing raging open chords give different sounds, but with a gained out guitar there isn't much in the way of dynamic range. Touch is super important, and paying attention to it really makes some folks playing stand out . . . and I'd say that people who play high gain all the time typically have a better handle on this.

 

[STLMTLHD79]

I am friends with Brandon Ellis of Black Dahlia Murder. Truth be told, when he tracks guitars in a controlled environment using computer amp sims, he uses unpotted pickups. Even in metal, they DO have some frequencies expressed even under heavy gain. Live he uses his signature Dyad potted.

 

[Securb]

with a gained out guitar there isn't much in the way of dynamic range.

As soon as stuff starts distorting (or you use compression) you are limiting dynamics.
​

​

Playing dynamics as I said have less to do with style or the amount of gain and more to do with the player. As you distort a guitar you introduce another realm of overtones which gives the guitarist a new palette of tones to search out. Including the often-hated pinch harmonic.

Compression has nothing to do with it, Tom Sholtz has probably the most compressed tone in rock history and is one of the most dynamic and expressive players.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Dynamics is difference in volume between the loudest and quietest sounds. As soon as stuff starts distorting (or you use compression) you are limiting dynamics. Once you have a very heavily saturated tone, there is typically almost nothing left as far as dynamics go. Clean to edge of breakup tones let you significantly alter the volume of the guitar with your touch on the strings, folks who play with these tones tend to be better at using this to good effect in their music.

What you're calling 'dynamics' is what I think of as touch sensitivity - it's the ability to get different sounds/tones from an instrument by varying your touch. Palm muting vs playing raging open chords give different sounds, but with a gained out guitar there isn't much in the way of dynamic range. Touch is super important, and paying attention to it really makes some folks playing stand out . . . and I'd say that people who play high gain all the time typically have a better handle on this.

Dynamics and Touch Sensitivity in a pickup isn't a different thing, though, I feel. Yes, the textbook definition of dynamics is how wide the ratio between the loudest louds and the quietest quiets is, but with distortion on, the way a pickups dynamic range translates is in different tones rather than a difference in volume. You're right, distortion squashes how much the volume goes up or down, but that doesn't mean once you start dropping distortion on top, you're erasing the range of what's going into the amp before the distortion. Otherwise, high gain amps would just sound like synths, and they kinda don't. The reason you can get touch sensitivity in a pickup is in large part (if not 100%) because the pickup has a wide dynamic range (or not).

Yes, the volume on the song I posted is leveled out throughout the song. Mixing, you have to if you want people to actually listen to it without blowing their ears off when the loud parts comes on. I can still clearly tell when he's picking hard or soft and what parts carry intensity or not. I'm pretty sure whoever mixed the song (I think it was Jens Bogren) mixed it with that in mind. I highly doubt he went and thought "yeah, this band's style inherently has lots of high and low intensity moments, I'm totally gonna squash those out."

 

[Securb]

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[Mincer]

I think we're running with different definitions here.

Dynamics is difference in volume between the loudest and quietest sounds. As soon as stuff starts distorting (or you use compression) you are limiting dynamics. Once you have a very heavily saturated tone, there is typically almost nothing left as far as dynamics go. Clean to edge of breakup tones let you significantly alter the volume of the guitar with your touch on the strings, folks who play with these tones tend to be better at using this to good effect in their music.

What you're calling 'dynamics' is what I think of as touch sensitivity - it's the ability to get different sounds/tones from an instrument by varying your touch. Palm muting vs playing raging open chords give different sounds, but with a gained out guitar there isn't much in the way of dynamic range. Touch is super important, and paying attention to it really makes some folks playing stand out . . . and I'd say that people who play high gain all the time typically have a better handle on this.

I define it as dynamic range, for sure, but also a tonal change when playing at different dynamics. And using those 2 things to get very different sounds.

 

[AdrianSD]

Now after 2 pages I feel somewhat guilty and not good enough of a player for using too much gain and having to pot one of the JBs that became microphonic after doing the magnet switcheroo too many times. On the positive side, I learned how to do it myself, didn't ruin it and solved the problem

 

[Seashore]

Now after 2 pages I feel somewhat guilty and not good enough of a player for using too much gain and having to pot one of the JBs that became microphonic after doing the magnet switcheroo too many times. On the positive side, I learned how to do it myself, didn't ruin it and solved the problem

This is the joy and suffering of forum membership in a nutshell.

 

[Phantasmagoria]

Personally I would'nt touch a low output humbucker with a 10 foot pole, dynamic or not. They don't have the balls that a high output pup has. And speaking of dynamics ..how come they (hot pups) chug & do squeelies so much better?

Not a fan of players who fart around w/ volume knob's all the time...cuz "dynamics" :laugh2: All that endless fidgeting is just irritating to watch ..honestly who cares? I mean If you did'nt see the guy playing w/ his knob constantly (haha lil pun there)..you would'nt even notice. You can play softly and hard w/ any kind of pup....it's all in the fingers

 

[Mincer]

Personally I would'nt touch a low output humbucker with a 10 foot pole, dynamic or not. They don't have the balls that a high output pup has. And speaking of dynamics ..how come they (hot pups) chug & do squeelies so much better?

Not a fan of players who fart around w/ volume knob's all the time...cuz "dynamics" :laugh2: All that endless fidgeting is just irritating to watch ..honestly who cares? I mean If you did'nt see the guy playing w/ his knob constantly (haha lil pun there)..you would'nt even notice. You can play softly and hard w/ any kind of pup....it's all in the fingers

On the other side, I can't stand players who use the same tone for absolutely everything- same amp settings, same distortion level and tone, same dynamics.

 

[Phantasmagoria]

haha..you just described every one of my fave players, Yngwie, EVH, Iommi, Angus Young, Lars Johansson (Candlemass), Tommy Vetterli (aka Tommy T Baron, Coroner), Andy LaRocque etc..etc..

 

[Phantasmagoria]

What can I say..I love players with their own personal, instantly recognizable styles and sounds :bigthumb:

 

[jeremy]

thats the wonderful thing about guitar, you can play a wide variety of styles of music with the same instrument. i have a jb in a tele that i play blues rock with, but in someone elses hands, that same guitar could do metal

 

[Mincer]

Iommi had very different tones for every era of the band. He certainly had dynamics in the studio, but live it was crushing all the time.

 

[Phantasmagoria]

Yeah certainly, but I think that was more 'cause of the limitations of the amps/gear of the era...he only ever got heavier

Plus no matter what era of the band the moment he played that first note there was no doubt it was Iommi. Definitely one of the most distinct tones/players in metal.​

 

[Phantasmagoria]

thats the wonderful thing about guitar, you can play a wide variety of styles of music with the same instrument. i have a jb in a tele that i play blues rock with, but in someone elses hands, that same guitar could do metal

All this talk about JB's in Tele's is turning my thoughts back towards this beauty....

 

[Mincer]

Yeah certainly, but I think that was more 'cause of the limitations of the amps/gear of the era...he only ever got heavier

Plus no matter what era of the band the moment he played that first note there was no doubt it was Iommi. Definitely one of the most distinct tones/players in metal.​

His tone is absolutely identifiable due to his super-light touch/light strings and tons of gain and compression (especially mid 80s onward) and a style that is uniquely his.

 

[Phantasmagoria]

I always have a chuckle when I think of all the "metal" players out there that think 'heavy tones' come from ridiculous rope-like gauges of strings..

Enjoy the tendonitis in a couple of yrs...

 

[Rex_Rocker]

I always have a chuckle when I think of all the "metal" players out there that think 'heavy tones' come from ridiculous rope-like gauges of strings..

Enjoy the tendonitis in a couple of yrs...

There's actually a video from the guy from Sylosis mentioning he went from 10-52's to 10-46's in the studio because the heavier gauges weren't sounding as good. I do agree that lighter strings have a "better" tone, but the consequence for him is he actually hurt his right hand from trying to blast 200+ bpm downpicking hard on the lighter gauges, so I think he ended up settling for 11-49's.

My point, I guess, is yes, Iommi's light gauge tone is iconic, but heavier strings can actually be more comfy for fast, hard, thrashy rhythm playing.

 

[weepingminotaur]

There's actually a video from the guy from Sylosis mentioning he went from 10-52's to 10-46's in the studio because the heavier gauges weren't sounding as good. I do agree that lighter strings have a "better" tone, but the consequence for him is he actually hurt his right hand from trying to blast 200+ bpm downpicking hard on the lighter gauges, so I think he ended up settling for 11-49's.

My point, I guess, is yes, Iommi's light gauge tone is iconic, but heavier strings can actually be more comfy for fast, hard, thrashy rhythm playing.

Care to explain this in more detail? It feels counter-intuitive to me, as someone who has moved to lighter strings for fast thrash rhythm over the year.

Mind you, I cannot physically do 200 bpm downpicking at all.