E34L vs (E34ii or KT77 )

[JMP/HBE]

They are not the "same" tube, but they are very similar and are interchangeable.
6CA7 is a 250v 100mA plate; 1.4A heater; with a transconductance of 11000 mhos
EL-34 is a 264v 70mA plate; 1.5A heater; with a transconductance of 11500 mhos

The Svetlana is the same tube whether marked EL34 or 6CA7, so it can depend on the manufacturer/brand.

As i stated one is suppose to be a Tetrode & one a Pentode so of course the tech data isn't the same and i can tell you tech data all things equal will vary tube to tube of the vary same make & type.
But if Amperex one of the largest tube companies to ever make tubes labels their Mullard XF2's "EL-34 / 6CA7" thats all you ever need to know CP tube types excluded.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

No, Svetlana - on their spec sheet, they list the same specs and diagrams and both part numbers, so they were using the same tube for both purposes, which is disingenuous. If the tubes are really an EL34 and a 6CA7, they will have different transconductance and voltages, and in particular different plate design, grids and getters, etc.

Oh, didn't know they had a 6CA7.

 

[JMP/HBE]

Oh, didn't know they had a 6CA7.

They don't fictious tube.
And FWIW the Sovtek 5881 is just a glorified 6L6 not even the same as the first 5881 found on a Korean War MIG-15 defector.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

They don't fictious tube.
And FWIW the Sovtek 5881 is just a glorified 6L6 not even the same as the first 5881 found on a Korean War MIG-15 defector.

It's neither. It's actually a 6P3S-E. It's lower wattage than a 6L6GC, but can handle more plate current than a 5881.

I like them, personally. But I can see why other people don't. They're kinda upper-middy compared to other 6L6's and thinner. The NOS 80's ones are slightly warmer and fatter, but still have that EQ compared to a full-on 6L6. Mike Soldano likes them as well. I think they tighten up and give some aggession to overly bassy 6L6 amps. Very 90's-sounding. They're also super reliable.

 

[JMP/HBE]

It's neither. It's actually a 6P3S-E. It's lower wattage than a 6L6GC, but can handle more plate current than a 5881.

I like them, personally. But I can see why other people don't. They're kinda upper-middy compared to other 6L6's and thinner. The NOS 80's ones are slightly warmer and fatter, but still have that EQ compared to a full-on 6L6. Mike Soldano likes them as well. I think they tighten up and give some aggession to overly bassy 6L6 amps. Very 90's-sounding. They're also super reliable.

I used to snag Sovtek 6L6WXT+ super cheap off ebay for my 3 channel Dual Rectifier they absolutely destroyed any other tube.
I know about the 5881 Ip.
Vacuum tubes are electro-mechanical-thermionic valves with absolute properties.
The rest is all tube marketing sales bling and misinformation sprinkled with fairy dust.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

I like CP Sovtek power tubes in general. They're reliable and not as expensive as others.

The NOS ones are nice and aren't as expensive as people want for other NOS stuff. Built like tanks too.

 

[beaubrummels]

As i stated one is suppose to be a Tetrode & one a Pentode so of course the tech data isn't the same and i can tell you tech data all things equal will vary tube to tube of the vary same make & type.
But if Amperex one of the largest tube companies to ever make tubes labels their Mullard XF2's "EL-34 / 6CA7" thats all you ever need to know CP tube types excluded.

I think you are mixing KTs vs other pentodes. KTs are tetrodes (hence the name, Kinkless Tetrode), they use a negatively-charged field (space charge) to function as a supressor grid, for example. Proper 6CA7s are true pentodes, and they have a different plate design from EL34s. There are companies who will mark the same tube as either a 6CA7 or EL34 (Svetlana did this), but that is NOT what I'm talking about. The JJ 6CA7 and EL34 are actually different tubes, different geometry, different glass envelope, different plates, different getters and different specs. They are indeed different tubes.

 

[El Dunco]

I used to swear by KT77s in my JVM. Now it’s E34L. They seem to really hold together in the low end at gig volume.

 

[JMP/HBE]

I think you are mixing KTs vs other pentodes. KTs are tetrodes (hence the name, Kinkless Tetrode), they use a negatively-charged field (space charge) to function as a supressor grid, for example. Proper 6CA7s are true pentodes, and they have a different plate design from EL34s. There are companies who will mark the same tube as either a 6CA7 or EL34 (Svetlana did this), but that is NOT what I'm talking about. The JJ 6CA7 and EL34 are actually different tubes, different geometry, different glass envelope, different plates, different getters and different specs. They are indeed different tubes.

Nope 6L6 Beam Tetrode, EL-34 Power Pentode has nothing to do with "Kinkless" that's a different tube.
Seems you just like to argue rather than accept what im saying but forums are full of that.

 

[misterwhizzy]

Nope 6L6 Beam Tetrode, EL-34 Power Pentode has nothing to do with "Kinkless" that's a different tube.
Seems you just like to argue rather than accept what im saying but forums are full of that.

Maybe we're compensating for your usual bias based on country of origin.

 

[El Dunco]

C’mon now. You don’t need to fight.

 

[JMP/HBE]

Maybe we're compensating for your usual bias based on country of origin.

I work hard for my money and have no desire to waste in on sh*tty products period.
One of my best friends is Slovak American i have no bias based on country.
I do however as a Veteran stand against tyranny in all its forms Russian, Chinese, American or whatever the actual Feck.
There goes your lame attempt to slight my mr whizzy.

 

[Dr.Mavashi]

I used to swear by KT77s in my JVM. Now it’s E34L. They seem to really hold together in the low end at gig volume.

What do you mean? Low end gets mushy ?

 

[Dr.Mavashi]

I listened to E34L vs 6CA7 by JJ, did not hear much difference, what about EL34ii ?

 

[El Dunco]

What do you mean? Low end gets mushy ?

If’s weird. It’s like I didn’t even know the sound could be better until it was. First KT-77s were noticeably better than vanilla EL34s for tight, fast reacting punchy metal. This is all at gig volumes btw, at bedroom to recording levels it’s really nowhere as big a deal. Again, the sound was noticeably better again with E34Ls.

Punchier, more weight to the low end but also faster and tighter which makes a huge difference for being heard with definition on stage. I can turn the resonance up a little more than I normally would without it starting to wash out or spill over onto the other instruments.

 

[beaubrummels]

I listened to E34L vs 6CA7 by JJ, did not hear much difference, what about EL34ii ?

IME once everything is dialed up to pretty full on distortion, there aren't a ton of sonic differences in comparison. Any differences at that point are more in sensitivity - stuff you could only perceive by playing in person, changes in your hand pressure on the strings to hear the dynamic changes though the amp, or rolling the volume to see the rate at which it cleans up.

One of the biggest differences between EL34, 6CA7 and KT77s I've noticed is the ramp into distortion as you turn the gain/volume up on the amp. IME KT77 starts to break up the earliest and has a wider range distortion onset, the EL34 was fairly moderate, it's distortion began at a little later point while turning up and still had a wide ramp into distortion, and the 6CA7 onset was later and shorter than an EL34. (By comparison, the onset of distortion for 6L6 starts the latest of all of them.). It is possible that onset point and range may be affected by the amp/circuit design, so YMMV. It can also be affected by changing the pre amp tubes to a lower power factor to allow for more headroom, which will change the onset point of distortion.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

One of the biggest differences between EL34, 6CA7 and KT77s I've noticed is the ramp into distortion as you turn the gain/volume up on the amp.

You mean poweramp distortion, right?

Because I don't think power tubes would have much effect on preamp distortion (what most amps' distorted channels label as "gain") if any.

It depends on what kind of amp you're putting them, obviously. If you're running a cranked plexi without a master volume, yeah, for sure. You're getting distortion from pretty much all stages in the amp.

But on a modern amp, I think they just provide some EQ differences as well as relatively subtly less/more compression from the poweramp at full-band volumes. But if you play in a loud rock band with a drummer that hits like his life depended on it, then yeah, a bit less subtly.

But honestly, modern amps sound kinda horrible when power tubes reach full-on distortion. Some compression/color/warmth from turning the amp up is nice. But full on poweramp distortion on modern amps? Ew.

 

[JMP/HBE]

Hard to beat a 100 watt Marshall w/ EL-34's they have the perfect amount of grunt & grind. Turn that fugger 1/2 & enjoy the ride.
They only sound better the more you crank it.

 

[beaubrummels]

You mean poweramp distortion, right?
.

Yes, precisely. That's the only time I've observed the differences in the onset and ramp into distortion with those tubes.

 

[JMP/HBE]

Yes, precisely. That's the only time I've observed the differences in the onset and ramp into distortion with those tubes.

Do you use a "power amp distortion meter" to measure "power amp distortion" ?
Like how you know you're there ?