early VH sound
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MetalManiac
Li'l Junior Member
Re: early VH sound
Hi OP!
Intersting thread. I considered trying to attain Eddie's sound quintessential VH-1 for any Rawk purist.
Not that I could nail the sound exactly, even though there are pretty well documented ways to do so\ if you have unlimited resources.
Here is How I think I may have got pretty close ( AND KNOCK THAT *** OFF THAT EDDIES tONE IS IN HIS FINGERS BS!! TONE IS 100% IN THE GEAR)-
I snagged a old '72 Superlead( now this is a Pt. 2 Pt. Marshall l amp that even the "Plexi " Fender Reissue was cloned off).
Next is the 'De-Reguier' Duncan '78 pickup.
I think I went teh distance by finding a good all North Ash tremolo equipped guitar . These"Hard Ash" guitars are what EVH used -there is little doubt because of their sonic 'signature"- they have a 'Zing' and an immediacy to the note, without a whole lot of classic vintage resonance IMO, of course, these were choice old growth woods at that time..hard to find if not impossible anymore..
...Then at least half the equation for me was the speakers and Cabinets Eddie Van Halen used . I truly believe that his sound was half clean/half distorted, as I have come to believe that Eddie used 1/2 G12M-20 Holy Grail speaker which is not available at any price anymore Celestion speakers paired with almost equally holy grail Altec Hi -FI guitar speakers most notably perhaps used by the Dead. I built a facsimile cabinet to replicate what I thought that may sound like, using an old Marshall Cabinet with insulation, Metal Handles, and a mix of replica G12-m 20 speakers and and Greenbacks , including one G12-65.
Finally, a little processing with a any decent Phase that is swirly.
We all have our own ways of getting close, and every one of them is respectable, as long as you are chasing the grail!
Hi OP!
Intersting thread. I considered trying to attain Eddie's sound quintessential VH-1 for any Rawk purist.
Not that I could nail the sound exactly, even though there are pretty well documented ways to do so\ if you have unlimited resources.
Here is How I think I may have got pretty close ( AND KNOCK THAT *** OFF THAT EDDIES tONE IS IN HIS FINGERS BS!! TONE IS 100% IN THE GEAR)-
I snagged a old '72 Superlead( now this is a Pt. 2 Pt. Marshall l amp that even the "Plexi " Fender Reissue was cloned off).
Next is the 'De-Reguier' Duncan '78 pickup.
I think I went teh distance by finding a good all North Ash tremolo equipped guitar . These"Hard Ash" guitars are what EVH used -there is little doubt because of their sonic 'signature"- they have a 'Zing' and an immediacy to the note, without a whole lot of classic vintage resonance IMO, of course, these were choice old growth woods at that time..hard to find if not impossible anymore..
...Then at least half the equation for me was the speakers and Cabinets Eddie Van Halen used . I truly believe that his sound was half clean/half distorted, as I have come to believe that Eddie used 1/2 G12M-20 Holy Grail speaker which is not available at any price anymore Celestion speakers paired with almost equally holy grail Altec Hi -FI guitar speakers most notably perhaps used by the Dead. I built a facsimile cabinet to replicate what I thought that may sound like, using an old Marshall Cabinet with insulation, Metal Handles, and a mix of replica G12-m 20 speakers and and Greenbacks , including one G12-65.
Finally, a little processing with a any decent Phase that is swirly.
We all have our own ways of getting close, and every one of them is respectable, as long as you are chasing the grail!
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GilmourD
Burritotoneologist
Re: early VH sound
It's part of the equation.
With the same gear I used to get EVH tone I can also cop Gilmour tone, depending on how I play. A lot of the difference is in the pick attack but some of it is just how notes are bent and the grip on the neck, which affects how you fret notes.
That's not to say that guitar, amp, and pedals aren't also part of the equation.
It's like algebra. You can't just ignore some variables and get the same result. It's ALL part of the equation.
Sent from my Moto X 2014 using Tapatalk
It's part of the equation.
With the same gear I used to get EVH tone I can also cop Gilmour tone, depending on how I play. A lot of the difference is in the pick attack but some of it is just how notes are bent and the grip on the neck, which affects how you fret notes.
That's not to say that guitar, amp, and pedals aren't also part of the equation.
It's like algebra. You can't just ignore some variables and get the same result. It's ALL part of the equation.
Sent from my Moto X 2014 using Tapatalk
Lake Placid Blues
New member
Re: early VH sound
The G12M20 reissue is highly regarded. In fact the G12M20 reissue is what is used in the current EVH 4x12 cab as the EVH G12M. The one with the EVH sticker also costs less indvidually. I don't know what speakers the OP has in his 4x12?
One nice thing about the G12M20 is that its not very loud and so the amp can possibly be turned up louder to get more power tube distortion. That's a big part of the early VH sound. And Eddies plexi seemed to get a lot of gain from the power amp, more than most of us can get out of a plexi. There's also the rumors that Eddie's plexi had more pre-amp gain than stock.
Somebody recommended a Vintage Modern Marshall. This might be a very good idea, because it has an extra preamp tube for more gain and a post PI master volume, but a plexi like circuit. A 50 watt version could get into the power amp a little easier. It uses KT66s but swapping in some EL34s or 6CA7s should not be problem.
The G12M20 reissue is highly regarded. In fact the G12M20 reissue is what is used in the current EVH 4x12 cab as the EVH G12M. The one with the EVH sticker also costs less indvidually. I don't know what speakers the OP has in his 4x12?
One nice thing about the G12M20 is that its not very loud and so the amp can possibly be turned up louder to get more power tube distortion. That's a big part of the early VH sound. And Eddies plexi seemed to get a lot of gain from the power amp, more than most of us can get out of a plexi. There's also the rumors that Eddie's plexi had more pre-amp gain than stock.
Somebody recommended a Vintage Modern Marshall. This might be a very good idea, because it has an extra preamp tube for more gain and a post PI master volume, but a plexi like circuit. A 50 watt version could get into the power amp a little easier. It uses KT66s but swapping in some EL34s or 6CA7s should not be problem.
JeffB
Let it B
Re: early VH sound
I can vouch for the EVH(eritage) G12m. Its the most vintage sounding of the modern g12ms from Celestion, the Green Beret, and the Private Jack, all of which have a more predominant high mid, and don't have the tubby, in a good way, low end or the 3d depth of the evh.
I can vouch for the EVH(eritage) G12m. Its the most vintage sounding of the modern g12ms from Celestion, the Green Beret, and the Private Jack, all of which have a more predominant high mid, and don't have the tubby, in a good way, low end or the 3d depth of the evh.
Christopher Caruana
New member
Re: early VH sound
Who ever says/thinks that tone is 100% in the gear, and the individual player/fingers make no difference, is a fool
Who ever says/thinks that tone is 100% in the gear, and the individual player/fingers make no difference, is a fool
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GilmourD
Burritotoneologist
Re: early VH sound
They're both part of the equation. You're not going to get there ignoring any one part of it.
They're both part of the equation. You're not going to get there ignoring any one part of it.
devastone
Well-known member
Re: early VH sound
I'll second that the speaker and cabinet as as important to "any" good tone as the amp. Back in the old days when I was young and stupid (I'm a lot older now), I wanted a 4-12 cabinet and bought a KMD (IIRC) thinking that it's a 4-12 with Celestions, it will sound great. I ran some really nice amps through that cabinet and could never figure out why I could never get a really good sound. I think the Celestions in it were 35W something or others, basically the cheap Celestions from back in the day, and they sounded like gargage, the cabinet itself wasn't built that well either. I bought a real Marshall 4-12 cabinet with proper Celestions and my world changed, lesson learned, the speakers and cabinet have as much or more effect on your tone as any other part of the signal chain.
My <$0.02...
I'll second that the speaker and cabinet as as important to "any" good tone as the amp. Back in the old days when I was young and stupid (I'm a lot older now), I wanted a 4-12 cabinet and bought a KMD (IIRC) thinking that it's a 4-12 with Celestions, it will sound great. I ran some really nice amps through that cabinet and could never figure out why I could never get a really good sound. I think the Celestions in it were 35W something or others, basically the cheap Celestions from back in the day, and they sounded like gargage, the cabinet itself wasn't built that well either. I bought a real Marshall 4-12 cabinet with proper Celestions and my world changed, lesson learned, the speakers and cabinet have as much or more effect on your tone as any other part of the signal chain.
My <$0.02...
Red_Label
New member
Re: early VH sound
Sorry I missed this before.
It was $800 used. Should have it within a day or two. Also have a Freidman Pink Taco coming tomorrow that should be capable of dialing-up some VH tones I would think. Those run a bit more though.
Sounds excellent and the price
Sorry I missed this before.
It was $800 used. Should have it within a day or two. Also have a Freidman Pink Taco coming tomorrow that should be capable of dialing-up some VH tones I would think. Those run a bit more though.
GilmourD
Burritotoneologist
Re: early VH sound
When I did this video last summer it wasn't to show off tone. I could certainly do a much better video, if I have the time, but it gives you an idea.
Bugera 1960--Jettenuator--Peavey 412MS - quiet:
http://youtu.be/-ZIBTnaETAc
Sent from my Moto X 2014 using Tapatalk
When I did this video last summer it wasn't to show off tone. I could certainly do a much better video, if I have the time, but it gives you an idea.
Bugera 1960--Jettenuator--Peavey 412MS - quiet:
http://youtu.be/-ZIBTnaETAc
Sent from my Moto X 2014 using Tapatalk
jackson111
New member
Re: early VH sound
this probably is to much power but it can be switched to 25 watt, which really drives the tubes harder at low volumes. oh sorry what im talking about is a Carvin X100B. gain channel set to low gain has that plexi or jmp sound, on high gain its like a hot-rodded jcm800, with the 5 band eq you can dial in any tone you wanted. and the best part is brand new its 599.00 I think right now they are throwing a free footswitch and head cover so im guessing about 650.00 with shipping. I got one and I have dialed it in for metallica, kings, dokken, pretty much haven't found a sound I can't get pretty darn close to. I know there a lot of Carvin haters out there but my marshall 205h has not been fired up since I got my x100b.
this probably is to much power but it can be switched to 25 watt, which really drives the tubes harder at low volumes. oh sorry what im talking about is a Carvin X100B. gain channel set to low gain has that plexi or jmp sound, on high gain its like a hot-rodded jcm800, with the 5 band eq you can dial in any tone you wanted. and the best part is brand new its 599.00 I think right now they are throwing a free footswitch and head cover so im guessing about 650.00 with shipping. I got one and I have dialed it in for metallica, kings, dokken, pretty much haven't found a sound I can't get pretty darn close to. I know there a lot of Carvin haters out there but my marshall 205h has not been fired up since I got my x100b.
GilmourD
Burritotoneologist
treyhaislip
Well-known member
Re: early VH sound
Have you tried a Mad Professor "1" Pedal? Gets an awesome brown sound!
Have you tried a Mad Professor "1" Pedal? Gets an awesome brown sound!
GilmourD
Burritotoneologist
Re: early VH sound
It is, but I actually don't use those functions. The PPIMV has a bypass switch and I plug into input 1 (upper left) with is both channels jumpered. I run it with the Jettenuator to knock down volume.
It is, but I actually don't use those functions. The PPIMV has a bypass switch and I plug into input 1 (upper left) with is both channels jumpered. I run it with the Jettenuator to knock down volume.
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