EL34 TUBES: Why does Bogner, H&K, Diezel, Marshall use them unlike Mesa, Peavey?

[KLINKDETROIT]

I have been using 6L6 tubes for years now in my 5150 and now my dual rectifier. I just bought some Mesa El34 str442 Svetlana tubes and like the sound but find it lacking in the low end a little compared to my 6l6 tubes. I was wondering why most amp companies use EL34. Do they compensate for this lack of low end with the amp? Is the dual rectifier not well suited for EL34 tubes as much as 6l6? what are your preferences?

 

[That90'sGuy]

Re: EL34 TUBES: Why does Bogner, H&K, Diezel, Marshall use them unlike Mesa, Peavey?

Re: EL34 TUBES: Why does Bogner, H&K, Diezel, Marshall use them unlike Mesa, Peavey?

I believe low end has more to do with the amp design than the tubes. With that said, EL34s tend to be more mid range oriented and punchier. Some people may or may not like that. I prefer mids myself because it allows me to cut through live easier. Bass takes the low end, the singer takes the high end and I like to sit in the middle.

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: EL34 TUBES: Why does Bogner, H&K, Diezel, Marshall use them unlike Mesa, Peavey?

Re: EL34 TUBES: Why does Bogner, H&K, Diezel, Marshall use them unlike Mesa, Peavey?

It all depends on the design and the characteristics that they are trying to achieve. Chris has it nailed down pretty good but I'll also add that EL34's tend to distort quicker than 6L6's.

Another thing to keep in mind though is the supply of valves has not always been reliable or steady and this influenced alot of amp desingers descisons on the valve they used. While Marshalls are invariable equated with the EL34 I have a late 70's Marshall that came with 6550 tubes. In the 90's Marshalls were shipping with 5881's all due to not being able to get a reliable supply of suitable EL34's.

I'm pretty sure Mesa's initial use of the 6L6 was due to the fact that his circuits were based off of Fender circuits using the same valve. Though in the Manual that came with my MKIII its stated that its reccomended to run EL34's in the outer two tube sockets as they were more reliable in the class a operation. So i guess in short tube reliability and availability have been a factor in deciding what tube the manufacturer uses.

 

[Zerberus]

Re: EL34 TUBES: Why does Bogner, H&K, Diezel, Marshall use them unlike Mesa, Peavey?

Re: EL34 TUBES: Why does Bogner, H&K, Diezel, Marshall use them unlike Mesa, Peavey?

6L6 will give you a more "bell like" tone with accentuated Lows and highs, and a bit more headroom. El34 will give you more of a "classic" mid-strong Rock tone (Of course the preamp makes a much bigger difference, but ....)

I personally prefer 6L6, and even modded my 2204 to accept them. But I also have to admit that my current project allows me more than enough freedom to have my perfect tone, because there are neither a bassist nor a vocalist that can "get in my way"

 

[Curly]

Re: EL34 TUBES: Why does Bogner, H&K, Diezel, Marshall use them unlike Mesa, Peavey?

Re: EL34 TUBES: Why does Bogner, H&K, Diezel, Marshall use them unlike Mesa, Peavey?

I think there's a lot to the idea that amp makers have often used what's available.
That's the main reason that Marshall chose EL34s and KT66s in their early amps.

 

[KLINKDETROIT]

Re: EL34 TUBES: Why does Bogner, H&K, Diezel, Marshall use them unlike Mesa, Peavey?

Re: EL34 TUBES: Why does Bogner, H&K, Diezel, Marshall use them unlike Mesa, Peavey?

Aha

 

[Luke Duke]

Re: EL34 TUBES: Why does Bogner, H&K, Diezel, Marshall use them unlike Mesa, Peavey?

Re: EL34 TUBES: Why does Bogner, H&K, Diezel, Marshall use them unlike Mesa, Peavey?

I think the replies are pretty much spot on. One thing I would like to add is that Jim Marshall stated that when KT66 supplies started running low they switched to EL34's then guitaist came to him and told him to continue to use the 34's because they created a sound they liked.

I personally prefer the British tube sound in most applications. The 6L6 has a lot more top end to my ears.

As far as the Mesas go Bob at Eurotube seems to think that the biases on the Mesas are quite cold and that 6L6s sound good on the EL34 setting if you don't want to rebias. Food for thought.

Luke

 

[Quencho092]

Re: EL34 TUBES: Why does Bogner, H&K, Diezel, Marshall use them unlike Mesa, Peavey?

Re: EL34 TUBES: Why does Bogner, H&K, Diezel, Marshall use them unlike Mesa, Peavey?

are you sure EH isn't electroharmonix?

tube makers like to do this-6l6GE=GE replica groove tube

GC is some sort of rating. There's WGB's, then 5881's. I presume GC's are at the top of the headroom ladder when it comes to 6l6 tubes. I knw that 6l6wgb's like the TAD's breakup sooner than regular GC tubes.

 

[Curly]

Re: EL34 TUBES: Why does Bogner, H&K, Diezel, Marshall use them unlike Mesa, Peavey?

Re: EL34 TUBES: Why does Bogner, H&K, Diezel, Marshall use them unlike Mesa, Peavey?

Yes, GCs are a little higher wattage, and came later. WGBs and 5881 are similar power tubes. In general, you CAN use a WGB in a circuit that calls for a GC tube, but not the other way around

 

[Jag513]

Re: EL34 TUBES: Why does Bogner, H&K, Diezel, Marshall use them unlike Mesa, Peavey?

Re: EL34 TUBES: Why does Bogner, H&K, Diezel, Marshall use them unlike Mesa, Peavey?

^Isn't it the other way around? 5881's have a lower plate and screen voltage and would bring down a 6L6GC amp, wouldn't they?

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: EL34 TUBES: Why does Bogner, H&K, Diezel, Marshall use them unlike Mesa, Peavey?

Re: EL34 TUBES: Why does Bogner, H&K, Diezel, Marshall use them unlike Mesa, Peavey?

Ditto on the above, but there's also two schools of thought, regarding highgain.
Mesa and Peavey built their tone on the hotrodded Fender foundation, since their founders were fans of Fender amps. They are also American companies, who began sourcing their tubes from American military surplus suppliers like GE, Sylvania, Phillips.

The others are German, where they hold the Marshall in the highest regards, and began their careers by modding those. Europeans built their foundation on German and Slavic military tubes, which are based in the EL-34/EL-84 family. Those military tube suppliers were Mullard, Telefunken, Tesla, Svetlana.

 

[SoCalSteve]

Re: EL34 TUBES: Why does Bogner, H&K, Diezel, Marshall use them unlike Mesa, Peavey?

Re: EL34 TUBES: Why does Bogner, H&K, Diezel, Marshall use them unlike Mesa, Peavey?

Dang'it ,with all this talk I wish my EL34 Traynor would get here!

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: EL34 TUBES: Why does Bogner, H&K, Diezel, Marshall use them unlike Mesa, Peavey?

Re: EL34 TUBES: Why does Bogner, H&K, Diezel, Marshall use them unlike Mesa, Peavey?

I think there's a lot to the idea that amp makers have often used what's available.
That's the main reason that Marshall chose EL34s and KT66s in their early amps.

This is true. In reality the original JTM45's were spec'd to have 5881's in them cause thats what the fender bassman circuit that they were based off of used. But being that the 5881 is an american valve it was hard to get a reliable supply so the KT66 was subsituted as its was the nearest english equivalant. Same with the EL34 its a european valve it would have been easier to get than 6L6's which fill the same power niche.

 

[XSSIVE]

Re: EL34 TUBES: Why does Bogner, H&K, Diezel, Marshall use them unlike Mesa, Peavey?

Re: EL34 TUBES: Why does Bogner, H&K, Diezel, Marshall use them unlike Mesa, Peavey?

Ditto on the above, but there's also two schools of thought, regarding highgain.
Mesa and Peavey built their tone on the hotrodded Fender foundation, since their founders were fans of Fender amps. They are also American companies, who began sourcing their tubes from American military surplus suppliers like GE, Sylvania, Phillips.

The others are German, where they hold the Marshall in the highest regards, and began their careers by modding those. Europeans built their foundation on German and Slavic military tubes, which are based in the EL-34/EL-84 family. Those military tube suppliers were Mullard, Telefunken, Tesla, Svetlana.

hmmm that's some good info i never knew...

this is why i play through peaveys and mesa's...6l6s...i just like the extra thick low end that no marshall ever has (to me at least)...anyone ever stick 6l6s in a marshall (oh lord i've sinned in saying that didn't i hahaha)...i wonder if that would fatten it up a bit. but i do love the sound of a diezel...go figure.

-Mike

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: EL34 TUBES: Why does Bogner, H&K, Diezel, Marshall use them unlike Mesa, Peavey?

Re: EL34 TUBES: Why does Bogner, H&K, Diezel, Marshall use them unlike Mesa, Peavey?

hmmm that's some good info i never knew...

this is why i play through peaveys and mesa's...6l6s...i just like the extra thick low end that no marshall ever has (to me at least)...anyone ever stick 6l6s in a marshall (oh lord i've sinned in saying that didn't i hahaha)...i wonder if that would fatten it up a bit. but i do love the sound of a diezel...go figure.

-Mike

JCM900's from the mid to late 90's came with 5881's (a type of 6l6). Never played through one though so I dont know how they sound. Though from what I've gathered the EL34's were definatly perferred.