electronic drums / future of music

[Kivitel]

This is a bit off topic. Anyway.

Anybody here drum? I've just been watching videos of some of the new Roland electronic drums. That's some incredible technology - it has really matured to the point where they really are better than drums. Yeah they can never reproduce all the energy of the humming bass drum or all the hihat dynamics, but that's a very small price to pay for being able to practice with headphones or with a band playing at reasonable levels.

I remember when those things sucked - cool for new wave/electro sounds but not too hot for acoustic stuff. But they seem to be able to reproduce all the whisshes and clangs and clacks of a real set now, without the ridiculous loudness (what the hell sort of instrument hurts your hearing unamplified?)

I am so thrilled for the future of instruments. I don't think we're too far away from a future where the variax really is as good as the real thing (hell, I think it is for one or two models). What's so exciting are the sounds we'll be able to create synthetically with an organic, strings vibrating basis, new, expressive sounds. Synths today fall into two broad categories - cheesy or retro - but to those courageous to use them now they are the future of music.

 

[Kivitel]

Re: electronic drums / future of music

Also a note on drums: Micing drums is a pain in the ass. Contrary to what idiot sound engineers think, using 10 mics for one instrument destroys the liveliness of an instrument on record (if you mic from too short a distance you get a lot of noises that shouldn't be heard - even a cello sounds harsh from 2 inches). Doing it all electronically could be the answer.

 

[ES350]

Re: electronic drums / future of music

how many times have we heard that...'the future of music'....lol

 

[Stevo]

Re: electronic drums / future of music

This was a big question in the 80s, when electronic drums were very popular. Given that the sound quality is so much better now, and sampling is a lot less expensive now, they will definitely become popular for certain groups. They are very practical, no doubt.
In the end, real drums have a lot more soul and rock&roll is supposed to be loud!! They wont go away any time soon.

I agree that drums can be a pain to record, but real drums can also sound more unique with different tunings and players.

 

[frankfalbo]

Re: electronic drums / future of music

I record mostly with V-drums. I prefer to play real drums, but with today's technology I can get most of the way there to fool even fellow drummers listening. Guitar is so different it's not even funny. The Variax/V-Guitar thing is so different, and so much more complicated. The sound of a drum is heard for less than a second, and most of the sound, when mixed with other instruments, is heard for even less time, before the decay in inaudible under the other instruments. So the subtleties are less relevant in the overall picture. As long as they get the dynamics right (and I believe the V-Drums excell in that category) then the rest is up to the player, and how you set the dynamics in the sound module. A good player can play V-drums in such a way as to fool you. It's like changing your playing style whether you're on an oversized Tama Rockstar, or a small Gretsch or vintage Ludwig. The V-drums are just another type of drum set nowadays, if you play them that way. The V-guitar and Variax, sensing string vibrations through a piezo or micropickup near the bridge has to undergo far too much processing to become the intended guitar sound. They've probably got a better shot of sounding realistic (although it wouldn't feel realistic) by staying in MIDI.

 

[Kivitel]

Re: electronic drums / future of music

Staying in midi, really? Maybe a good in between would be using two really clean active pickups as the sensor in a neutral body, and not being so ambitious in the processing.

 

[JOLLY]

Re: electronic drums / future of music

I've been wanting a set of Roland V-Drums for years. I just can't afford to shell out the $5000 (or however much they are) on a set.

 

[Mincer]

Re: electronic drums / future of music

there probably isnt a recording released by a major label that doesn't use some sort of electronic sampling- even if they replace just the kick or the snare on a song. It has been happening for years now.

 

[infrared72]

Re: electronic drums / future of music

I think the V-drums are great too, but pricey. Yamaha's DTX series of drums are really nice too - they have a kit for every budget. My brother bought the low end kit for around $800 and it's really cool. They have a high end kit that's kinda like the Roland setup with the mesh pads that have more of a drumhead kind of feel.

In fact, I think a lot of Yamaha gear is really under rated for the most part. Their keyboards sound like nothing else, and I have a great little yamaha ry30 drum machine I bought years ago and recorded all sorts of 4 track things with. So long as you're willing to program the gear a little bit, you can get some really nice sounding stuff. I have had an rm1x sequencer for a little over a year, and it's amazing.

-Peter

 

[WhoFan]

Re: electronic drums / future of music

i am not a drummer but i know what a great drum sound is... i have heard some digital recorders drum backing tracks and they sound great.... i can imagine the same or better tech is in an electric drum kit these days...

I have known a few drummers over the years that use both electric and acoustic drums... The electrics i have seen come in super handy for the drummer in an apartment, or works shift work and practices at odd hours.. a cool jam i had 10 years ago was with a guy on an electric drum kit, a mixer and a MultiFX unit for my guitar.. a few headphones and we were jamming until 3am.... That was pretty cool. My last band was having a hard time keeping our rehearsal places and it ended up in peoples basements.. once newborn babies came along we got kicked out of 2 different basements... wifes didn't like the noise, can't blame them i guess with newborns. The plan at onetime was all of us use elctronic drums and POD type stuff into a mixer and headphone preamp... The almost silent rehearsal.... band broke up before this came to life but the guys were buying gear to do this.....

Me... i like real things... I like real great quality drums that are tuned nicely.... too many times i have played with guys on cheap kits with the skins tightened to snot and the kit sounds like garbage cans... Real drums are where it is at....

...but at the same time i prefer real tube amps but i'm looking at a VOX modeler amp these days for jamming... for the money it sounds great!

 

[3'scompany]

Re: electronic drums / future of music

I'm not a drummer but my brother is as well as one of my best friends. My brother has a V-kit and it flat out rocks. My friend agrees to no end. He's actually wanting to get rid of his kit after playing the roland. They're just too practical not to love. They're volume adjustable, always in tune, versatile, and way easier to record/do live sound with. They've got the cheesy synth sounds when you want them, however, the "real kit" samples are actually really good and in a live, high volume, situation I bet you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference between a mic'd acoustic kit and the electronic one... depending on the patch used of course.

The only thing bad about them, other than not quite 100% authentic tone, is the look for some people. I recently had the idea that electronic drum kits, with current technology if not slightly better, will really take off if they put the triggers on real drum shells. It'd look like a real kit (which is arguably better to some, including me) and sound like one, but give you way less headaches and more versatility. Plus, with roland triggers as heads, you could use any finish or wrap and not worry about it affecting tone.

 

[OlinMusic]

Re: electronic drums / future of music

I have used some impressive soft kits like the SUPERIOR DRUM KIT FROM HELL and the like. The samples are amazing down to manipulating overhead mic-ing etc. I also PROUDLY own a POD XT Live.

HOWEVER, I have been recording and re-recording songs lately and making a FIRM COMMITMENT to mic'd tones on drums and guitars. Yes, it is a lot of work but the rewards are tones that are far more organic, harmonically rich, etc etc.

I'm sorry, but you cannot quite recreate the beautiful reality of air moving a mic as it surrounds an A Custom, or an Istanbul, or GOD's BLESSING UPON MANKING = the K Dark Custom Rides/Crashes/Hats.

I like digital, but it needs to be used as a means to be more powerful, deep, and productive - NOT to be lazy or get away with abandoning the search for greatness. That same "lazy, level the playing field with technology" has ruined the whole experience of running to the record store to get that next great album in my lifetime.

Mic'ing drums is as important as getting the gorgeous tones of a Marshall, Bogner, Matchless, Budda, Fender - etc etc.

 

[daemon barbeque]

Re: electronic drums / future of music

I played V drumms alot.I played even a concert without monitoring!!!It was awfull to play "def" ,my band didn't realized that ,but the feeling of a real drum is more interactive ,and the V- drumms never deliver this interactive feel
It is too expensive ,needs too much tweaking and you can't just change a head as you wish!The Bass-drum feeling is really bad.You can't give accents like in real drumms adn the worst part ,you don't feel the grinding bass from floor toms.
But i can make a deal.V-drumms with real cymbals would be the way to go.It is not optimum.But it has many advantages.
OTOH ,hi-end drummkits (mostly custom) can eb ordered with mics installed!This is the best solution for micing problems.

 

[Mincer]

Re: electronic drums / future of music

i think the problem with using real shells on VDrums is that part of the appeal of them is their size. I know some people can't get over the look of them, but contemporary musicians are pretty conservative about the way things should look. Also, lots of real kits for big concerts are real drums with real heads that have triggers on them, so the sound is consistant every night.

I would be more apt to praise the classic mic technique of recording a great sounding kit, but I am not really interested in classic or modern drum sounds as we hear on every classic or modern rock radio station (or guitar sounds, for that matter). Also, you need a great sounding kit with great mics, and a lot of practice. And the room to do it.
The cost of all of that is a lot more than V Drums, though.

 

[Kivitel]

Re: electronic drums / future of music

There are other drum kits besides the roland ones of course. Yamaha, Alesis, and one or two other companies make them.

To me, conservativism is a crutch. I like classic rock tones coming out of my guitar not because they are classic, but because they are more expressive. I think a lot of people are afraid of creating and using new sounds because the entire reason they got into music was because of someone else (Jimmy Page, Hendrix, etc.) Those guys had some awesome tones, but it's important to remember that to truly emulate these players you have to make your own tone with what's available now, not just try to immitate their tone to the point of ridiculousness (the '59 LP had two volume controls but they affected both HBs! I need reverse staggered pole pieces to sound like hendrix!)

Most musical instruments are design compromises - before electronics, there were only a few ways you could get an audible tone out of wood and metal and wire. Before active pickups and piezo sensors and solid acoustic analysis you could only do so much with an magnets and wire. We have all this amazing technology which can correct or at least adapt to the compromises instrument designers were forced to make in the past, but few musicians exploit them creatively. Screw those cowards, screw AC hum, screw 4 beats to the bar and screw modern songwriting.

 

[Mincer]

Re: electronic drums / future of music

We have all this amazing technology which can correct or at least adapt to the compromises instrument designers were forced to make in the past, but few musicians exploit them creatively. Screw those cowards, screw AC hum, screw 4 beats to the bar and screw modern songwriting.

You rock.

 

[More-Gear-Than-Skill]

Re: electronic drums / future of music

I play a set of the Roland TD drums (mid 90's). I can play and practice anytime i choose. They're real enough to lay down some parts. Acoustic drums are a pain unless you have a proper space to make a racket. I can play after midnight, and really dig in... or before breakfast. That fact is more important to me than the "proper" drum-sound, response etc. They're in my lounge. They can trigger my software sampler, and i can play the sounds of the barnyard too!

 

[Pecan]

Re: electronic drums / future of music

The exspensive ones sound as good as a decent acoustic drum kit. I just don't like it when a drummer uses them at gigs, weird:chairfall