Eminence Speaker Questions - Rivera S120 Amp

[Monsta-Tone]

I have a Rivera S120 2x12 combo.
This amp has the best clean channel I have ever heard!
I have a love/hate relationship with it though.....
- It weighs almost exactly 100 pounds
- Lead channel needs just a hair more drive
- The reverb kills the sparkle in the clean channel, knocks some of the gain off of the lead channel, and drops the output a fair bit

When I got it, it had a pair of JBL's. I've never been a fan of JBL's, so I immediately lost 20 extra pounds from the amp and traded the speakers for a fret job on my McCarty.
I've been using a pair of Mesa/Celestion MC90 Black Shadow speakers for about a year now. They sound very good for cleans, but are a little stiff for distortion.
I would like to replace one of them (or both) with something lighter in weight and a little less stiff sounding.

Amp Specs:
Stereo 2x12 combo - 55 watts per side - half open back cabinet w/baffle between speakers, speakers are front loaded with metal grill (no grill cloth) - 6L6 power tubes on one side, EL34 on the other (sounds great together!)

What I'm looking for:
Warm fat cleans with punchy highs, think Twin Reverb
Warm crunchy distortion with gobs of sustain and harmonics, not too bright
Breakup, but not mushy like a Greenback

Music I play:
My band plays all original music that ranges in styles from Steeley Dan to Zappa to Incubus to Rush to Early Maiden with a lot of Hendrix and EVH thrown in there.
I'm the only guitar player in the band, so I need to hold down the rhythms while playing the leads.

Speakers I've been looking at:
Cannabis Rex
Swamp Thang
Wizard

Anthony Lucas at Eminence recommended a Cannabis Rex on the 6L6 side and a Wizard on the EL34 side.
I wanted to get other opinions before ordering. I'm pretty much stuck with what I buy and I can't try them out before I buy them.......
I'm thinking that one American voiced speaker and one British voiced speaker will be the perfect compliment to my amp!

 

[Monsta-Tone]

Re: Eminence Speaker Questions - Rivera S120 Amp

I should add that Patrick Selfridge at Mercury Magnetics recommended that I try 16 ohm speakers in an effort to utilize all of the available windings in my output transformers. I'm really leaning in this direction. I don't necessarily want the amp to be louder, but bigger, fuller, crunchier sounding.

I was thinking that a British voiced speaker on the EL34 side and an American voiced speaker on the 6L6 side would give me the best of both worlds!

 

[Chickenwings]

Re: Eminence Speaker Questions - Rivera S120 Amp

What I'm looking for:
Warm fat cleans with punchy highs, think Twin Reverb
Warm crunchy distortion with gobs of sustain and harmonics, not too bright
Breakup, but not mushy like a Greenback

Music I play:
My band plays all original music that ranges in styles from Steeley Dan to Zappa to Incubus to Rush to Early Maiden with a lot of Hendrix and EVH thrown in there.
I'm the only guitar player in the band, so I need to hold down the rhythms while playing the leads.

Speakers I've been looking at:
Cannabis Rex
Swamp Thang
Wizard

Anthony Lucas at Eminence recommended a Cannabis Rex on the 6L6 side and a Wizard on the EL34 side.
I wanted to get other opinions before ordering. I'm pretty much stuck with what I buy and I can't try them out before I buy them.......
I'm thinking that one American voiced speaker and one British voiced speaker will be the perfect compliment to my amp!

60 watts a side or 120watts mono yes?
a cannabis rex is rated to 50 watts and is very efficient (read: loud). Two things that count against it for use in your amp and for what you want to do.
Swamp thing rated at 150 watts so can handle the power easily, but with the big magnet again its very loud and present...something like your mesa black shadow.
Wizard again only 50 watts and very loud.

A pair of texas heats will do the job beautifully. 150 watts but not super efficient, so they can handle everything your amp can dish out, but because they are not as efficient as the other 3 speakers you are looking at, you have the luxury of winding your amp up a little more on the volume dial. Powerful speaker but smaller magnet that the mesa or swamp thing means you get a little bit of forgiveness in the feel.

Warm fat punchy cleans, warm crunchy distortion. Not too bright - more like fat but balanced. They are great speakers for thick, mean vintage tones and complement high powered american style amps. The eminence website says they are the american cousin to the redcoat series (whatever that means) so i reckon it will sound great with your el34 side also. I would happily put some in a marshall.

So nice in fact, i just ordered a 3rd one...(i already have a pair in my twin that replaced some jbl clones).

You wont be sorry.

 

[80's_Metal]

Re: Eminence Speaker Questions - Rivera S120 Amp

it has been my experience that the swamp thangs are very tight, loud as all hell, but stay tight with little break up and not overly warm. Same with the Texas heats.

From what I am hearing you ask for I would look G12T-75 but I'm no guru.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Eminence Speaker Questions - Rivera S120 Amp

I don't know your amp.

But I do agree with the tech who told you that you'll probably get a slightly beefier tone from the 16 ohm tap than you will from the 8 ohm or 4 ohm tap.

Providing that use a 16 ohm load: either a single 16 ohm speaker or two 8 ohm speakers in series.

 

[Monsta-Tone]

Re: Eminence Speaker Questions - Rivera S120 Amp

Thanks guys! Too many choices! After listening to the sound clips on their website, I think I have narrowed it down a little.

60 watts a side or 120watts mono yes?
a cannabis rex is rated to 50 watts and is very efficient (read: loud). Two things that count against it for use in your amp and for what you want to do.
Swamp thing rated at 150 watts so can handle the power easily, but with the big magnet again its very loud and present...something like your mesa black shadow.
Wizard again only 50 watts and very loud.

It's only 60 watts a side. No way to make it mono.
Definitely don't want it to be louder than it is now! The Black Shadows are super efficient & loud! I like the sound clips for the ST though. Sounds huge and fat.

A pair of texas heats will do the job beautifully. 150 watts but not super efficient, so they can handle everything your amp can dish out, but because they are not as efficient as the other 3 speakers you are looking at, you have the luxury of winding your amp up a little more on the volume dial. Powerful speaker but smaller magnet that the mesa or swamp thing means you get a little bit of forgiveness in the feel.

Warm fat punchy cleans, warm crunchy distortion. Not too bright - more like fat but balanced. They are great speakers for thick, mean vintage tones and complement high powered american style amps. The eminence website says they are the american cousin to the redcoat series (whatever that means) so i reckon it will sound great with your el34 side also. I would happily put some in a marshall.

I did like the sound clips of the Texas Heat! Not sure I would want 2 of them though. I was thinking 1 dark speaker and 1 bright speaker.
I did take the 6L6's out of the amp and went with a full boat of E34L's. The amp is just way more crunchy with EL's! I'm a die hard 6L6 fan, but this amp needs E34L's.

it has been my experience that the swamp thangs are very tight, loud as all hell, but stay tight with little break up and not overly warm. Same with the Texas heats.
From what I am hearing you ask for I would look G12T-75 but I'm no guru.

I tried a G12T-75 the other day in a Mesa Rectoverb. I really liked how crunchy it was and it lacked the fizz that the Black Shadow has in that amp. I didn't like the cleans though. They seemed colder sounding than the Black Shadow.
I almost went with an MC-90 and a 75 in this amp, but ended up not getting the 75.

I don't know your amp.
But I do agree with the tech who told you that you'll probably get a slightly beefier tone from the 16 ohm tap than you will from the 8 ohm or 4 ohm tap.
Providing that use a 16 ohm load: either a single 16 ohm speaker or two 8 ohm speakers in series.

I've never experimented with 16 ohm loads. Years ago I had a Marshall 1960 cab that was 16 ohm (pretty sure anyway), it sounded massive with my Ampeg VL502 that I used to have.
It makes sense though. Patrick says that using the largest tap means you are utilizing all of the windings in your OT. At 8 ohms, you are using less than half the windings. At 4 ohms, you are using less than 1/4 of the windings.

 

[Monsta-Tone]

Re: Eminence Speaker Questions - Rivera S120 Amp

I really like the Wizard and Private Jack clips.
I love the older Heritage 30 Celestion speaker. It sounds really good in low watt amps! Guess that's why I like the Wizard.

Judging on the sound clips and the efficiency ratings, I was thinking about these speakers:
Private Jack, 16 ohm - 100.2 db
Texas Heat, 16 ohm - 100.2 db

What do you guys think?

 

[Chickenwings]

Re: Eminence Speaker Questions - Rivera S120 Amp

the private jack is only a 50 watt speaker and each side of your amp is rated to 60.
The tonker is rated to 150 watts. It is supposed to be eminence's take on the celestion g12K100 (formerly g12H100). The g12h100 is a really solid sounding speaker in open backed cabs and a much chunkier and thicker sound than the g12t75, so the tonker might be a bit better suited to your amp than the under powered private jack, or the hollow sounding g12t.

 

[Monsta-Tone]

Re: Eminence Speaker Questions - Rivera S120 Amp

I think it will be fine (hope it will be fine because it already shipped!). I used to run an old Heritage 30 (best thing that ever came out of my old JTM60) in a Mesa DC5 fully cranked. Never had a problem. Wish I still had that speaker! Plus, unfortunately, there is no place on this island where I can unleash my amp. I spend so much time figuring out how to make it less loud that I thought it would be worth trying some less efficient speakers.
If it can't keep up, I have a great little Mesa DC3 that I'll try it in. If my son doesn't talk me out of it.....He has a Blackstar HT20 that could definitely use some better cleans.
If I hate it, I will take a look at the Tonker for sure!

Anthony Lucas said that the Tonker is somewhat similar to my MC90's but with fatter low end and warmer, smoother highs. Sounds really good. I love the MC90, but want something different for this amp. He recommended the Wizard and the Cannabis Rex. I didn't like the tone clips of the CR, it seemed muffled compared to the Texas Heat and the Swamp Thang.
I listened to those clips for hours, and finally found the two speakers with lower efficiency rating that I liked.

 

[Gone_Shootin]

Re: Eminence Speaker Questions - Rivera S120 Amp

I have pairs of Texas Heat, Swamp Thang, Governor & Man O War speakers. The Texas Heat & Swamp Thang speakers are in my Avatar Traditional 4x12 (X pattern) & the Governor & Man O War speakers are in my Splawn 4x12 (X pattern)

I think what Eminence means about the Texas Heat being the American cousin of the Redcoat series is that it has a prominent midrange, which does give it a bit of a British flavor, but it's tighter sounding across the spectrum when compared to the Redcoats I own.

Personally, if it were mine I would throw some casters on the bottom so I didn't have to worry so much about the weight and go with a Texas Heat on the 6L6 side with a Man O War or Swamp Thang on the EL34 side (the Texas Heat & Swamp Thang sound very good together).

ETA: I read further and saw that you already ordered. I hope they work out for you. Also if you're wanting to attenuate volume, Try an EQ or volume pedal in the Effects loop. I do this with my Splawn Pro Mod (it's an insanely loud amp) and my MXR EQ pedal by simply lowering the volume on the pedal. So far it's worked quite well. But if your amp has a parallel loop, it might not work.

 

[Monsta-Tone]

Re: Eminence Speaker Questions - Rivera S120 Amp

Thanks!
First thing I did, after replacing the hideous black carpet with some nice tolex, was to install side handles and casters.
I'll never understand 100 pound amps that have no wheels and only a suitcase handle on top......

If the Private Jack doesn't work out, I can always use it in something else.
I had thought about a Texas Heat and Swamp Thang. I saw a great video on youtube that showed the TH and ST together and then split the sound so you can hear each speaker. They sound great together!
I was hoping the Private Jack would add a bit of speaker distortion to my overdrive tones.

Most Rivera amps have a Send and Return knob so you can dial it in a bit. The problem is, my amp relies on pushing the gain stage after the loop, and power tube/phase inverter distortion more than most modern amps. Only 2/3 of the overdrive is found in the preamp before the loop.

 

[Gone_Shootin]

Re: Eminence Speaker Questions - Rivera S120 Amp

Oh, ok. I don't know why I didn't think about this before, but you might want to take a look at Eminence's FDM line, which currently consists of the Maverick & Reignmaker. They both allow you to adjust how much of the voice coil is in the magnet, thus allowing you to adjuts the speaker's efficiency.

 

[Monsta-Tone]

Re: Eminence Speaker Questions - Rivera S120 Amp

I wondered how the attenuator on those speakers worked, thanks!
I'll have to give the clips another listen.