Engl Screamer 50 pre-amp tube shootout (long post).

[Rocker35]

At a gig before Christmas, I'd noticed that my Engl seemed to have a bit less gain and more noise than usual. It appeared as if a pre-amp tube was on the way out and a swap of the tubes from V2 to v1 confirmed that the tube in V1 was not at full strength so I decided to buy a few new ones to try.

I read Gearjonesers excellent round up, but decided against going for Sovtek LPS's and GT C's in favour for a different approach. I got the following from Watford Valves:-

From L-R:- JJ ECC83s (balanced), 2x JJ ECC83s (standard), JJ ECC83s (cryo treated), EH (250 drive rated), NOS RFT, NOS Phillips Jan WA (250 drive rated), TAD 7025 (250 drive rated).

I wanted to make my own mind up about a few things - the value of a balanced tube for the PI, cryo treatment, NOS v new and Watford's drive rating.

My first shock was when I pulled the original Engl branded tubes. I'd originally thought they were Sovtek WB's (which V4 actually was), but on close inspection, V1-V3 appear to be JJ's!

This actually made sense as the user manual states that V1 is a premium quality tube, V2 & V3 are selected and V4 standard. Anyway, on with the test. I replaced the Engl tubes back in V2-V4 first and tested each new tube in V1

1.JJ ECC83s Cryo treated

This was similar in tone to the stock JJ's(?), but was a touch smoother and warmer with a bit less gain (again, makes sense if Engl actually put premium quality tubes in V1). The tone was even with a good balance between low's and high's. However, although the cryo treatment seems to have smoothed out the tone, I don't think it's worth the extra over a standard JJ.

2.EH 12AX7WX (250 drive rated)

Watford Valves offers a drive rating service for a small fee, in which they test tube's for their gain which they guarantee at being 250 or over using their scale, 250 being high gain. They measure both sides of the triode and the good thing is they mark the results on the box. This tube had a rating of 263/266. This is a really aggresive tube with stacks of gain, loads of bottom end, but a bit more brittle on the top and not as smooth or warm as the JJ's. Still a great tube.

3.TAD 7025 RT010 (250 drive rated)

This is one of TAD's premium selected (top 5%) tubes and also drive rated at 270/264. This was less aggresive than the EH with less apparent gain and bottom end. However, the top was smooth and overall the tone was sweet.

On to the NOS tubes.

 

[Rocker35]

Re: Engl Screamer 50 pre-amp tube shootout (long post).

Continued....

4. Phillips Jan 12AX7WA (250 drive rated)

I chose this tube as Watford reviewed it as the warmest of the American made NOS tubes - great for a brightly voiced amp like the Engl. Tone wise, this fell somewhere between the EH and the TAD without having the overall gain of either. This would probably be great in a less high gain amp such as a Fender etc.

5.RFT ECC83

This an East German high gain tube recommended for high gain guitar amps by Watford. WOW!!!!! The tone of this thing was just unreal. the gain of the EH, but fatter, fuller and a lot more detailed across the board. The midrange was thick without being overbearing and the high end sang like a bird. An absolutely superb tube. If anyone has seen the Dio Evil or Devine DVD, then the tone I got on channel 4 was pretty similar to that of Doug Aldrich on the DVD - absolutely killer!!!!

I also replaced the Sov in V4 with the balanced JJ and in all cases, the tone was smoother although how much of this was down to the balancing or the warmer JJ is open to debate. However, it did improve the tone.

I liked all the tubes to be fair but in different ways, however, the clear winner was the RFT. Simply head and shoulders above the rest. After a bit more experimentation, I found the best set up was RFT in V1, JJ cryo in V2, JJ standard in V3 and JJ balanced in V4. Another good set up was EH in V1, Phillips in V2 and the JJ's in V3-V4 as above. Thats how I've left the Engl ready for my next gig - the RFT is getting locked away for special occasions!!!:laugh2:

Hope this gives some of you some more info on top of GJ's review. Cheers!!!:banana:

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Engl Screamer 50 pre-amp tube shootout (long post).

Thanks for the review of those tubes. It's always fun to see how your amp will react to different ones, and since we're at the peak of tube availability now, it's a good time to stock up.

I've never tried the JJ cryo or RFT, but I did buy a JJ ECC803S at a Vacuum Tube Valley Tube Expo a couple months ago. There will be another one in Los Angeles in a few months, so I'll look for an RFT and maybe a couple NOS like Amperex Bugle Boy and Mullards.

I've done a bunch of testing, and have a nice box of tubes, but it's always fun to find more. I sold off a few amps recently, but still have my favorite 3.

Bogner Ecstasy JJ EL-34's, 3 GT-C's for gain, JJ ECC83's for clean, PI, FX loop
Matchless Chieftain. Svetlana EL-34's, NOS Mullard pres and Rectifier
Marshall Jubilee 2550. JJ E-34L's, Tungsol pre's (New Sensor).
I put a Sovtek LPS in my Valvetronix.

 

[shred-dog]

Re: Engl Screamer 50 pre-amp tube shootout (long post).

i had an rft in my marshall and my park heads in V1 and it made them fat and sassy !!!!!

 

[Jeff_H]

Re: Engl Screamer 50 pre-amp tube shootout (long post).

Cool review. I have a NOS RFT, a NOS Bugle Boy and a NOS Mullard. The RFT is every bit as good as the other two, and is still somewhat affordable. However, when I A/B'd all of these tubes against the GT12AX7-C's, the GT's were clearly better, in my modded JCM 2205. The RFT's are smoother, and have less gain.

The C's are not harsh, but they have a tighter attack and brighter highs than the RFT, without being piercing. Also, the low end of the C's is noticably better, IMO, than the RFT. Give one a try someday.

If it wasn't for the GT-C's, the RFT would still be in my V1 slot.

 

[Rocker35]

Re: Engl Screamer 50 pre-amp tube shootout (long post).

Cool review. I have a NOS RFT, a NOS Bugle Boy and a NOS Mullard. The RFT is every bit as good as the other two, and is still somewhat affordable. However, when I A/B'd all of these tubes against the GT12AX7-C's, the GT's were clearly better, in my modded JCM 2205. The RFT's are smoother, and have less gain.

The C's are not harsh, but they have a tighter attack and brighter highs than the RFT, without being piercing. Also, the low end of the C's is noticably better, IMO, than the RFT. Give one a try someday.

If it wasn't for the GT-C's, the RFT would still be in my V1 slot.

Thanks for the input Jeff. I intend to try as many different tubes as possible to find the best combo, including the GT C's. My one reservation is that the Engl is quite a bright amp to start with and running 5881 powertubes, has a tighter sound than a Marshall. The RFT is no.1......for now!!:bigok:

 

[Kommerzbassist]

Re: Engl Screamer 50 pre-amp tube shootout (long post).

First of all, great review!
Then I have a question that's a bit off topic:
Can I actually measure tubes myself wit a multimeter? If yes, how?

 

[PUCKBOY99]

Re: Engl Screamer 50 pre-amp tube shootout (long post).

I use & love RFTs.....just installed them in the Edana & they're a perfect fit.

 

[Lee_L]

Re: Engl Screamer 50 pre-amp tube shootout (long post).

Well I just bought a used Screamer 50 head myself, and it may need retubing soon...I don't know yet. What preamp AND power amp tubes would you suggest?

 

[Marcel]

Re: Engl Screamer 50 pre-amp tube shootout (long post).

How long do I have to let the tubes cool down until I can change them? I want to check different tubes too

 

[Rocker35]

Re: Engl Screamer 50 pre-amp tube shootout (long post).

Well I just bought a used Screamer 50 head myself, and it may need retubing soon...I don't know yet. What preamp AND power amp tubes would you suggest?

Lee, it depends on what sound your going for. All of the tubes I tested work well as pre-amp tubes in a Screamer 50. I've got the stock Sovtek 5881 power tubes in place - haven't tried any new ones in there.

How long do I have to let the tubes cool down until I can change them? I want to check different tubes too

I let the tubes cool for about 5 minutes before I swapped them out. I also used a towelling cloth in case they were still a little warm!!!

 

[StrangeSound]

Re: Engl Screamer 50 pre-amp tube shootout (long post).

Vault worthy!

 

[larry_emder]

Re: Engl Screamer 50 pre-amp tube shootout (long post).

I <3 your guitars rocker

 

[Baltar]

Re: Engl Screamer 50 pre-amp tube shootout (long post).

thanks for the review ! ..

i know engl used chinese tubes for some time. i talked to an engineer,
who told me that the chinese have problems delivering, so they're currently
building jj's in the presection. so your assumption maybe very right.

 

[StrangeSound]

Re: Engl Screamer 50 pre-amp tube shootout (long post).

JJs helped to get a better clean tone..which I noticed immediatly..the overdrive sounds had a change behind it too but not that huge as the cleans..I`m soon changing the stock powertubes for TADs..

 

[Baltar]

Re: Engl Screamer 50 pre-amp tube shootout (long post).

rocker, did you try ever try a jj ecc803, instead of the ecc83s?
i use this one in my thunder, which brought me a significant better
clean tone. just wondering how it would be compared to yours ..

 

[SOLO GUITAR STEWIE]

Re: Engl Screamer 50 pre-amp tube shootout (long post).

definately vault worthy

chris

 

[StrangeSound]

Re: Engl Screamer 50 pre-amp tube shootout (long post).

bump..VAULT!