Epi LP Custom 3 Plus

108Dragon

108Dragon

New member
Ok, so I just picked up this new Epiphone. For those who haven't seen one; think Black Beauty -three pickups with a flamed maple top and modern blacked out appointments.
I have Dimebag and Metal Livewire pickups mounted in everything else I own. So I plug this thing into the 'ol JCM2000 to see how Alnico Classics sound.. The best description I can come up with is "creamy".. In an effort to push into heavier gain territory, I melted down an EL34 tube. Anyone ever seen one of these shrivel up like a grilled pepper? lol Me neither till now..
Did a search and couldn't find what I was looking for...
I'm wanting to either load a set of Mustaine Live Wires, or a JB bridge and '59 neck combo. In either case, what would I use in the middle position?
 
Re: Epi LP Custom 3 Plus

If you go actives....I'm not sure as I have never played actives.

If you go passive, go for something like the APH, PG or even a Seth Lover. Something in an A2 flavor for that smooth singing OD type lead and a really nice clean voice. I like these pickups even better in the neck position.
 
Re: Epi LP Custom 3 Plus

What do you desire the middle position to do?

On the original 3PU Gibsons, the middle position on the selector switch engaged two pickups in an out-of-phase relationship. (THINK - A weedier version of the Peter Green middle position tone.) Active pickups are not going to permit this. EMG used to make the PI-2 Phase Inverter doobrie but I have not seen one in many years.

My personal favourite SD active HB is the Live Wire Classic II. It has many of the attributes of a Gibson PAF. Two LWC2s and a Blackout might be nice. Two LW Mustaines and a LWC2 in the centre should sound good but the cosmetics might displease your eye.
 
Re: Epi LP Custom 3 Plus

Middle position HB's have a weak thin sound, the string nodes don't line up right, and few players, pro or hack, uses their middle HB because of that. It's there for looks. As good as a HB may sound in the bridge or neck slots, it sounds nothing like that in the middle. What some of us here do is use an HB-sized P-90, and there are many of those to choose from these days. They'll sound better than a HB.

Actives would complicate things more than you'd probably want, and offer no benefit over passives.
 
Re: Epi LP Custom 3 Plus

I have a three humbucker Les Paul with a set of EMTY Blackouts. The way I have my guitar wired is like this: 2 volumes, 2 tones with the neck pickup's tone control being a push/pull pot. The guitar is wired the same way as if it only had two pickups but with the middle pickup wired to the push/pull section of the neck pickup's tone pot.

I agree with Blueman335 that the tone of a humbucker in the middle is pretty worthless.
I can get it to sound ok with my rig because I have a lot of tone shaping capability from my rack system but it sounded much better when I had three passive Dimarzio's. I had 2 "Humbucker From Hell" pickups in the neck and middle and a "D-Activator" in the bridge. I wired the middle pickup in split mode and that gave me lots of great clean tones. I'm happy with my actives though and might consider Seymour Duncan to make me an active middle pickup.
 
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Re: Epi LP Custom 3 Plus

Just for you, Empty Pockets;
First photo is the Epi. The Crate cab got shredded by my wife's cats.. which is the reason they live OUTSIDE now. Cab may look like s***. But don't let that lull you into a sense of false security. It's loaded with $300 a piece Electrovoice speakers. They are driven by the power section of a freshly retubed 4100 head, and the tone is generated by a vintage ADA MP-1 with the 3TM Ultra mod and whatever I happen to be playing at the time.
Second photo is of the 4th tube in the quartet in the JCM2000 -shriveled on this side and the one facing the transformer. Like I said, I've never even HEARD of this before. lol
Third photo is the JCM2000, housing the deceased tube...

The middle switch position kinda sums up the output of the bridge and middle pickup, as Funkfingers stated. But I don't think it puts them out of phase.. at least not that I can tell listening to them. So I'm not as concerned about the middle pickup sounding thin as I am about it favorably coloring the tone of the bridge pickup.
I'm actually needing to know if the middle pickup is close enough to the bridge to use a bridge pickup there, is it far enough away from the bridge to necessitate a neck pickup, or is it funky enough to require a dedicated middle position winding?
I have an early all access neck Ibanez JEM that came loaded with the Dimarzio PAF Pro pickups -neck and bridge. I liked the tone, versatlity, and balance in them so much, I never changed them. Contrarily, I have a Ibanez Giger RG that the Infinity pickups were so dry, sterile, and without any character, I switched them out for a Seymour Duncan LMET 18 volt active set the day I bought it.
I have an old SD JBJ that I pulled out of a Kramer Nightswan I owed.. I was thinking about using that in the bridge of the Epi, and taking advice from you guys for the neck and mid for a combo that I otherwise wouldn't have chosen on my own.

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Re: Epi LP Custom 3 Plus

Ouch, sucks about your toob, dude.

If getting big and heavy is your thing, I'd throw an EMG 60A in the neck, a H model in the mid, and an 85 in the bridge.
 
Re: Epi LP Custom 3 Plus

Benjy_26 said:
Ouch, sucks about your toob, dude.

If getting big and heavy is your thing, I'd throw an EMG 60A in the neck, a H model in the mid, and an 85 in the bridge.
Click to expand...

Isn't the 81 model EMG's heavy hitter? I ran it in the bridge, an SA in the mid, and an 85 in the neck in a Hamer Californian. I thought that while the output was great, they didn't have nearly the "personality" and sheer drive that the Seymour Duncan HMET set does running at 18 volts.
And then, EMG has a setup that Zakk Wylde is running in his axe now. They are supposed to be all that and a bag of chips without being "sterile" sounding. But I haven't checked them out myself. They may be an option.
 
Re: Epi LP Custom 3 Plus

The 85 has more output than the 81,c but isn't quite as tight in the lows and is quite a bit thicker in the highs..
 
Re: Epi LP Custom 3 Plus

Benjy_26 said:
The 85 has more output than the 81,c but isn't quite as tight in the lows and is quite a bit thicker in the highs..
Click to expand...

I could never get my Hamer to sound like I wanted it to on stage or sustain.. but that may have been that worthless Shaller cast pot metal tremolo too.
 
Re: Epi LP Custom 3 Plus

i wouldn't bother messing with the middle pickup and probably put a pair of distortions in that beauty. Check out some of Mastodon's live stuff on Youtube to hear the Distortion in an LP.
 
Re: Epi LP Custom 3 Plus

108Dragon said:
I could never get my Hamer to sound like I wanted it to on stage or sustain.. but that may have been that worthless Shaller cast pot metal tremolo too.
Click to expand...

EMG's are very particular about string height. They like to be close to the strings. I keep my EMG bridge pickups (SA in one axe, 85 in another) almost kissing the strings and adjust the others to match the output.
 
Re: Epi LP Custom 3 Plus

@108Dragon

I knew there was something cool about you. I too, have an ADA MP-1 with the 3TM mod. Two of them to be exact and a third MP-1 with the 3.666 mod. I love that preamp!
 
Re: Epi LP Custom 3 Plus

LatsMcGee said:
i wouldn't bother messing with the middle pickup and probably put a pair of distortions in that beauty. Check out some of Mastodon's live stuff on Youtube to hear the Distortion in an LP.
Click to expand...

This is the first thing I thought of. Either Distortion Bridge and 2 Dist necks.
Or Bridge and neck, but keep the stock middle, since it doesn't do a lot.

Or go with a Custom bridge, Jazz bridge, Jazz bridge. Heaviness in the bridge, and all the other positions will be punchy and clear for solos or clean channel playing. With Jazz's in the middle/neck, you'll be able to get a lot of nice clean combinations. And the Jazz's sound great with highgain for solos....ask Mustaine.
 
Re: Epi LP Custom 3 Plus

All this talk of middle pickups in Les Pauls have me missing the Dimarzio set I had in mine.
I had a "Humbucker From Hell" in the neck and middle position with the middle pickup wired in split mode and a "D-Activator" in the bridge.

The reason I took these out was because I felt the distorted tone wasn't tight enough compared to my Blackouts EMTY pickups. I tried using a Maxon OD-808 Overdrive in front of my amp and noticed it tightened up the tone considerably. I used one of my other guitars with a D-Activator and it sounded awesome so I'll be putting my Dimarzio set back in my Les Paul. The EMTY's are still my favorite, but I want a better clean tone from my Les Paul.

I reinstalled the Dimarzio's back in my Les Paul and I'm much happier. The Maxon Overdrive made a huge improvement in tightening the Les Paul's massive low end.
 
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Re: Epi LP Custom 3 Plus

Darth Nihilus said:
@108Dragon

I knew there was something cool about you. I too, have an ADA MP-1 with the 3TM mod. Two of them to be exact and a third MP-1 with the 3.666 mod. I love that preamp!
Click to expand...

Yeah. I can see why you keep more than one of them as well. Good luck getting anything akin to a clean tone out of a 3TM ADA. I was going to buy an MP-2 and A-B switch 'em. But at this point, I'm leaning toward just sending the 4100 head to Voodoo for thier "metal mod" and some transformer upgrades.. still cheaper than the Soldano SLO100 I'd eally like to be playing through.
I have used the Seymour Duncan LMET pickups since we got them in the guitar shop I worked in back in '97. At 18 volts standard, the headroom was incredible. The preamp does all the work; you have a pickup with distortion before the signal even hits the amp, minimal string pull because the preamp is doing all the work, a wicked eq scoop, no string pull drop out, and very controlled microphonics, and zero mud in full chords -even with the gain up. It made my Kramer 220 and Nightswan VERY serious weapons. All I used on stage back then was my Marshall JCM900 halfstack and a boost pedal for cutting the mix soloing. That pickup did the rest. Even now, I'm hard pressed to find anything out there that can compare in that arena.. including the newer Seymour offerings.
I would try a set of the EMTY's. But the eq emphasis with them is dialed WAY higher in the spectrum than the LMET.
In truth, I never really tried the Dimarzios until I purchased my JEM with the DP151s standard. We were doing 80's covers at the time. The Dimarzio PAF Pro is an amazingly versatile pickup. I ran a Super 3 in my 540 Saber up until recently. And, aside from the eq scoop and higher output, is just as versatile. I switched to a Dimebag because it voicematched better with the hotrail and '59 already installed.
What do you think of the Pettruci model pickups?
 
Re: Epi LP Custom 3 Plus

I personally can get great cleans from my ADA 3TM by using the solid state mode.
Aside from that, the drive it delivers is ungodly! I can finally get that modded Marshall JCM800 2203 tone like Dino Cazares from Fear Factory which is a tone that's escaped me forever.

The EMTY Blackouts are still my favorite pickups but when I want an even more organic type of tone, I go for my Dimarzio D-Activator/Humbucker From Hell set up. It's funny you mention the Petruchster (I sarcastically call him that) because I think the Crunch Lab/Liquifier are my next favorite passive pickups out there. A good friend has a set of those on his custom made 7 string Explorer copy. Very impressive and touch sensitive. It's funny that I, for the most part can't stand Dream Theater but I like the Petruchster's tone.
 
Re: Epi LP Custom 3 Plus

Darth Nihilus said:
I personally can get great cleans from my ADA 3TM by using the solid state mode.
Aside from that, the drive it delivers is ungodly! I can finally get that modded Marshall JCM800 2203 tone like Dino Cazares from Fear Factory which is a tone that's escaped me forever.

The EMTY Blackouts are still my favorite pickups but when I want an even more organic type of tone, I go for my Dimarzio D-Activator/Humbucker From Hell set up. It's funny you mention the Petruchster (I sarcastically call him that) because I think the Crunch Lab/Liquifier are my next favorite passive pickups out there. A good friend has a set of those on his custom made 7 string Explorer copy. Very impressive and touch sensitive. It's funny that I, for the most part can't stand Dream Theater but I like the Petruchster's tone.
Click to expand...

Solid state.. but the ADA was always famous for its clean tube tones. I always set mine at 71 on the depth and 2 on cycle with the chorus and it was liquid city tube cleans. But you're right. Not even the Mesa Triaxis can touch it in the gain arena.
My new JEM is almost done. I may go with a Crunch Lab/Chopper/Liquifier combo with that one. I noticed that they are more tone and definition monsters rather. Iused to use heavy reverb and delay to cover my picking errors on stage. The Crunch Lab/Liquifier would have underlined them for me. hahaha Now that my picking is better, I think I could benefit from a set of pickups like these.
 
Re: Epi LP Custom 3 Plus

You'll love the Crunch Lab/Liquifier combo.

And I agree with you regarding the ADA 3TM MP-1. It killed the Mesa Triaxis I compared it to...bad!
 
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