Epiphone LP's and woods...
- Thread starter Nightburst
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rocksoldier
New member
Re: Epiphone LP's and woods...
Exactly, you wanna know what you pay for at least.
kmcguitars said:
Exactly, you wanna know what you pay for at least.
Re: Epiphone LP's and woods...
There is such a thing as truth in advertising. Even if they are not compelled to tell us what woods are used, if they say it's Mahogany and it's not, it's lawsuit time. Of course that would cost a fortune in lawyer's fees and given Gibson's history with lawsuits, they wouldn't go down without a fight. Really the only way to stop them are the 3 Bs, Boycott them, Bad Mouth them, and Besiege them with complaints. (I just made up that three Bs thing. You think Jesse Jackson needs another speech writer?).
Personally, if a guitar sounds good I don’t care what kind of wood it is made of. I don’t understand why Gibby/Epi doesn’t just tell us, this one is made of Agathis, and this one has a maple neck. Or, just say these bodies are made from Agathis, Mahogany and/or Alder.
I know some guys who restore old Gibsons, mainly acoustics. They tell me they have seen old L-00s from the ‘30s that had one side made out of maple and the other made out of mahogany. Apparently it is a long standing Gibson tradition to use what ever wood is on hand. Then they paint over it to hide any irregularities.
There is such a thing as truth in advertising. Even if they are not compelled to tell us what woods are used, if they say it's Mahogany and it's not, it's lawsuit time. Of course that would cost a fortune in lawyer's fees and given Gibson's history with lawsuits, they wouldn't go down without a fight. Really the only way to stop them are the 3 Bs, Boycott them, Bad Mouth them, and Besiege them with complaints. (I just made up that three Bs thing. You think Jesse Jackson needs another speech writer?).
Personally, if a guitar sounds good I don’t care what kind of wood it is made of. I don’t understand why Gibby/Epi doesn’t just tell us, this one is made of Agathis, and this one has a maple neck. Or, just say these bodies are made from Agathis, Mahogany and/or Alder.
I know some guys who restore old Gibsons, mainly acoustics. They tell me they have seen old L-00s from the ‘30s that had one side made out of maple and the other made out of mahogany. Apparently it is a long standing Gibson tradition to use what ever wood is on hand. Then they paint over it to hide any irregularities.
theboatcandream
dreamonologist
Re: Epiphone LP's and woods...
Epiphone doesn't necessarily say that the woods are such and such. They always talk in terms of matts.... neck: mahogany matt, body: mahogany/maple mat, etc.
Epiphone doesn't necessarily say that the woods are such and such. They always talk in terms of matts.... neck: mahogany matt, body: mahogany/maple mat, etc.
Re: Epiphone LP's and woods...
I didnt have time to read the other replies, so if I cover what someone else said, Im sorry..
Epi Lps (most) are made of mahogany with mahogany neck. Models with figured tops use either flame or quilt maple. Models like the custom, use alder on top instead of maple. This adds the brightness at less cost and with paint over it, few could tell the difference. Someone stated in another post that most Epis use maple necks. That is not true. Most use mahogany. A couple used Maple. The Ace Frehley model for example has a maple neck.
I didnt have time to read the other replies, so if I cover what someone else said, Im sorry..
Epi Lps (most) are made of mahogany with mahogany neck. Models with figured tops use either flame or quilt maple. Models like the custom, use alder on top instead of maple. This adds the brightness at less cost and with paint over it, few could tell the difference. Someone stated in another post that most Epis use maple necks. That is not true. Most use mahogany. A couple used Maple. The Ace Frehley model for example has a maple neck.
theboatcandream
dreamonologist
Re: Epiphone LP's and woods...
If only!
Sadly, this is how Epiphones are advertised, but it is not the reality of the situation.
Notice that they don't usually say "mahogany neck", they say "mahogany matt". It truly is a maple neck on most of these guitars, though a brown dye is mixed into the wood sealer.
And alder caps instead of maple are the rule, not the exception. I've seen the odd case of a maple cap, and my understanding is that all the custom flame tops have maple caps. But the maple used is plain maple - the flame or quilt is almost always a veneer.
BloodRose said:
If only!
Sadly, this is how Epiphones are advertised, but it is not the reality of the situation.
Notice that they don't usually say "mahogany neck", they say "mahogany matt". It truly is a maple neck on most of these guitars, though a brown dye is mixed into the wood sealer.
And alder caps instead of maple are the rule, not the exception. I've seen the odd case of a maple cap, and my understanding is that all the custom flame tops have maple caps. But the maple used is plain maple - the flame or quilt is almost always a veneer.
bryvincent
New member
Re: Epiphone LP's and woods...
my '03 epi custom flametop has a 3-piece mahogany back, grafted maple neck, and mahogany cap with flame veneer. the mahogany back is very well bookmatched you'll never know its a 3-piece without looking at the sides.its a very good guitar, excellent fretwork (no buzz) and overall craftmanship. and sounds decent out of the box and very good after changing the pickups.
my '03 epi custom flametop has a 3-piece mahogany back, grafted maple neck, and mahogany cap with flame veneer. the mahogany back is very well bookmatched you'll never know its a 3-piece without looking at the sides.its a very good guitar, excellent fretwork (no buzz) and overall craftmanship. and sounds decent out of the box and very good after changing the pickups.
Gary Ladd
New member
Re: Epiphone LP's and woods...
I would never buy an Epiphone electric for just this reason, they're knock-off Gibbys and the wood is a total toss-up. :32:
On the other hand, Epi acoustics are often great (if you pick thru the ones Epi QC let slip thru) and the birdseye maple body/mahogany neck I bought about 12 years ago is my favorite out of the 3 I own...the other ones are a Martin and a Taylor.
Of course, it needed MAJOR rework (frets and nut) and a JLD bridedoctor to get it up to speed recently (which still places its cost well under my other acoustics) and the tone is to die for!
I would never buy an Epiphone electric for just this reason, they're knock-off Gibbys and the wood is a total toss-up. :32:
On the other hand, Epi acoustics are often great (if you pick thru the ones Epi QC let slip thru) and the birdseye maple body/mahogany neck I bought about 12 years ago is my favorite out of the 3 I own...the other ones are a Martin and a Taylor.
Of course, it needed MAJOR rework (frets and nut) and a JLD bridedoctor to get it up to speed recently (which still places its cost well under my other acoustics) and the tone is to die for!
Tony_H
New member
Re: Epiphone LP's and woods...
Funny thing...
You know, a factory here in the Czech Rep. used to build guitars for Epiphone. As far as I know, the series was discontinued maybe four years ago or so. And I don't know what market these were intended for, but an interview in a local mag had me thinking 90% of them was exported (perhaps even to the US). There's another funny twist: there is a local Gibby/Epi dealer who never sold those instruments - it was always either US-made Gibbys or Korean Epis (these days it's also Indonesian and Chinese-made Epis).
But back to the Czech Epiphones. I saw a couple of those LPs in stores. Out of those that were finished in sunburst (very pretty cherry, brown, and blue bursts over flame maple top veneers), none had backs or necks of mahogany. The necks were of maple and the backs ... some shop assistants said they were made of alder and some said they were made of maple. I believe the Czech factory also used whatever wood was on hand at the time.
I don't want to say that using non-traditional materials is wrong: at the end of the day, it's all about whether the guitar sounds and plays good. But I agree that the advertising should be more accurate.
Funny thing...
You know, a factory here in the Czech Rep. used to build guitars for Epiphone. As far as I know, the series was discontinued maybe four years ago or so. And I don't know what market these were intended for, but an interview in a local mag had me thinking 90% of them was exported (perhaps even to the US). There's another funny twist: there is a local Gibby/Epi dealer who never sold those instruments - it was always either US-made Gibbys or Korean Epis (these days it's also Indonesian and Chinese-made Epis).
But back to the Czech Epiphones. I saw a couple of those LPs in stores. Out of those that were finished in sunburst (very pretty cherry, brown, and blue bursts over flame maple top veneers), none had backs or necks of mahogany. The necks were of maple and the backs ... some shop assistants said they were made of alder and some said they were made of maple. I believe the Czech factory also used whatever wood was on hand at the time.
I don't want to say that using non-traditional materials is wrong: at the end of the day, it's all about whether the guitar sounds and plays good. But I agree that the advertising should be more accurate.
Nightburst
New member
Re: Epiphone LP's and woods...
Hamers are unfortunately very rare around here. :yell:
I've heard something about newer Epi's using Basswood instead of Mahogany?
Benjy_26 said:
Hamers are unfortunately very rare around here. :yell:
I've heard something about newer Epi's using Basswood instead of Mahogany?
Tony_H
New member
Re: Epiphone LP's and woods...
Once I had such a good, affordable LP Studio, but I got in trouble moneywise and had to sell it. But I'm keeping my Hawk.
Speaking of budget Gibsons: there is a local guy here who offers a Melody Maker for a ridiculous price (ridiculous by local standards, considering the usual US price PLUS the cost of import, the customs, the VAT, the dealer's margin and what not).
I mean, are they any good? A friend told me that Gibson's quality has gone down in the recent years; he said he got a Korean Epi LP Std. because compared to the pricey Gibbys, the Epi was a better value for money.
Yes, that's true for my country as well. There was a mail-order company that offered new Hamers, but as for used ones ... it's easier to find a good used Gibson at a price that won't ruin you.Nightburst said:
Once I had such a good, affordable LP Studio, but I got in trouble moneywise and had to sell it. But I'm keeping my Hawk.
Speaking of budget Gibsons: there is a local guy here who offers a Melody Maker for a ridiculous price (ridiculous by local standards, considering the usual US price PLUS the cost of import, the customs, the VAT, the dealer's margin and what not).
I mean, are they any good? A friend told me that Gibson's quality has gone down in the recent years; he said he got a Korean Epi LP Std. because compared to the pricey Gibbys, the Epi was a better value for money.
rocksoldier
New member
Re: Epiphone LP's and woods...
Where did you hear about the basswood?
Nightburst said:
Where did you hear about the basswood?
Nightburst
New member
Re: Epiphone LP's and woods...
I'm not shure, I think I've read it here on the forum?
rocksoldier said:
I'm not shure, I think I've read it here on the forum?
theboatcandream
dreamonologist
Re: Epiphone LP's and woods...
I haven't heard that. Maybe you're thinking of Eastwoods.
Nightburst said:
I haven't heard that. Maybe you're thinking of Eastwoods.
Re: Epiphone LP's and woods...
I believe that mat means material. In other words, the MATERIAL the neck is made from is mahogany.
I have an Epi Les Paul , It is made of wood. I play it, it sounds good. I think we are splitting hairs. Back when I first played, we didn't know about woods pickups etc. were in guitars. I used to go and buy a Fender Strat and the salesman would ask what color and with or without a tremolo.That's it. No one knew if it was made of alder, poplar, basswood or whatever. No one kew how many winds the pickups had or if they were AlNiCo 5, or 2 or ceramic. Or if they were 250K pots or 500k. Same thing with Les Pauls. All we knew was that they sounded good. The internet has allowed us to dissect everything out there down to the molecule.
Let me ask you something. If the greatest looking, playing and sounding guitar you'll ever play was made out of paper mache with pickups made out of AlNiCo 1.0 ver 3, and with a Floyd Rose made out pot metal with the sustain block made out of cardboard and only cost 29.99 would you buy it and play it?
Remember there is alway snob appeal. I sold a PRS CU24 with Abalone birds and 10 top this Saturday. It sounding like butt (compared to a cheapo Gibson, 1 pickup, painted with a paintbrush LP Junior-399.99). But this guy( a good friend of mine has bragging rights on his 3K$ guitar, that he will not play because a dust mite might land on it.
Any way enough and to qoute Frank Zappa
theboatcandream said:
I believe that mat means material. In other words, the MATERIAL the neck is made from is mahogany.
I have an Epi Les Paul , It is made of wood. I play it, it sounds good. I think we are splitting hairs. Back when I first played, we didn't know about woods pickups etc. were in guitars. I used to go and buy a Fender Strat and the salesman would ask what color and with or without a tremolo.That's it. No one knew if it was made of alder, poplar, basswood or whatever. No one kew how many winds the pickups had or if they were AlNiCo 5, or 2 or ceramic. Or if they were 250K pots or 500k. Same thing with Les Pauls. All we knew was that they sounded good. The internet has allowed us to dissect everything out there down to the molecule.
Let me ask you something. If the greatest looking, playing and sounding guitar you'll ever play was made out of paper mache with pickups made out of AlNiCo 1.0 ver 3, and with a Floyd Rose made out pot metal with the sustain block made out of cardboard and only cost 29.99 would you buy it and play it?
Remember there is alway snob appeal. I sold a PRS CU24 with Abalone birds and 10 top this Saturday. It sounding like butt (compared to a cheapo Gibson, 1 pickup, painted with a paintbrush LP Junior-399.99). But this guy( a good friend of mine has bragging rights on his 3K$ guitar, that he will not play because a dust mite might land on it.
Any way enough and to qoute Frank Zappa
Gary Ladd
New member
Re: Epiphone LP's and woods...
Uh, my second electric guitar was a 76 Explorer I bought in 1979, LONG before the internet and I knew I wanted a mahogany or korina explorer with PAFs in the neck and Super-Distortion PUPs in the bridge.
Some of us have been VERY selective of our guitars long before you came around.
I own 12 guitars now and each one was very carefully purchased, I've learned from others that bought without preparation and ended up getting screwed either in playability or tone...
Dom L said:
Uh, my second electric guitar was a 76 Explorer I bought in 1979, LONG before the internet and I knew I wanted a mahogany or korina explorer with PAFs in the neck and Super-Distortion PUPs in the bridge.
Some of us have been VERY selective of our guitars long before you came around.
I own 12 guitars now and each one was very carefully purchased, I've learned from others that bought without preparation and ended up getting screwed either in playability or tone...
theboatcandream
dreamonologist
Re: Epiphone LP's and woods...
Hmm, "mat" does suggest "material". I didn't think of it that way.
I'll disagree with you on tone woods and pickup selection though. The wood a guitar is made from has a large impact on its tone. Knowing which woods you like is a useful tool in shopping for guitars given all the options out there, especially when it comes to Warmoth or USACustom type deals.
Hmm, "mat" does suggest "material". I didn't think of it that way.
I'll disagree with you on tone woods and pickup selection though. The wood a guitar is made from has a large impact on its tone. Knowing which woods you like is a useful tool in shopping for guitars given all the options out there, especially when it comes to Warmoth or USACustom type deals.
Re: Epiphone LP's and woods...
Well, The Epi Customs claim to be mahogany back and neck/alder top. Guess when it comes down to it, who knows whats REALLY under the paint??
All I know is my Epi Ace Frehley is a blast to play, records well and visually gets lots of compliments. ( Black flame maple top) Yes, veneer.
My Gibson Explorer is a blast to play and gets compliments. As do most of my axes.. Love em all..
Bottom line, if it feels good and sounds good at a price you can afford, go for it.. I played an Epi Lp custom recently and has me wanting it. heavier than my frehley and has a darker tone. Mahog neck vs maple
Well, The Epi Customs claim to be mahogany back and neck/alder top. Guess when it comes down to it, who knows whats REALLY under the paint??
All I know is my Epi Ace Frehley is a blast to play, records well and visually gets lots of compliments. ( Black flame maple top) Yes, veneer.
My Gibson Explorer is a blast to play and gets compliments. As do most of my axes.. Love em all..
Bottom line, if it feels good and sounds good at a price you can afford, go for it.. I played an Epi Lp custom recently and has me wanting it. heavier than my frehley and has a darker tone. Mahog neck vs maple
Re: Epiphone LP's and woods...
Pre 1998 foreign made Epiphone (budget) Lespauls were made with 4 pieces of solid mahogany glued together as opposed to one solid mahogany piece. This allows for cheaper costs on wood. The top was usually a 2 piece maple cap with a thin solid maple veneer on top of the cap to make it look like it was one piece.
Afterwards, Epiphone started making Alder/mahogany guitars. This is a type of alder - mahogany layered wood thats kinda like plywood. They sandwich a bunch of layers of mahogany with alder together and pressure compress them into a solid piece of wood. It's not exactly glued plywood, but it is layers of both woods compressed into each other. Once compressed, it's very hard to tell that the wood is actually comprised of layers of alder and mahogany compressed together. If you look closely on the back of the Epi Les Pauls, you can see the layers of the wood. At first initial glance it will look like a solid piece of mahogany, but depending on how the wood is cut, you can see layers of distinctly different wood grains meshed together.
Again, this is not your typical glued layers of alder and mahogany plywood. Instead it's layers of alder and mahogany pressure compressed into each other. The grain of both woods become intermeshed and it's really hard to see the actual layers. In some cases, it's undetectable depending on how they cut the slab of wood.
Epiphone still uses a 1/4" slab of maple for their caps. Sometimes you'll luck out and get a solid maple cap, Usually the caps are 3 - 4 pieces glued together. To hide this, they will use a very thin maple veneer on top to hide this. Once this is glued, it's impossible to detect unless you view the underside of the maple cap. This is how they can sell their LP copies with quilted and flamed maple tops for so cheap. The flamed and quilted maple top is actually a thin veneer that is glued on top of a normal maple cap.
Tom
Pre 1998 foreign made Epiphone (budget) Lespauls were made with 4 pieces of solid mahogany glued together as opposed to one solid mahogany piece. This allows for cheaper costs on wood. The top was usually a 2 piece maple cap with a thin solid maple veneer on top of the cap to make it look like it was one piece.
Afterwards, Epiphone started making Alder/mahogany guitars. This is a type of alder - mahogany layered wood thats kinda like plywood. They sandwich a bunch of layers of mahogany with alder together and pressure compress them into a solid piece of wood. It's not exactly glued plywood, but it is layers of both woods compressed into each other. Once compressed, it's very hard to tell that the wood is actually comprised of layers of alder and mahogany compressed together. If you look closely on the back of the Epi Les Pauls, you can see the layers of the wood. At first initial glance it will look like a solid piece of mahogany, but depending on how the wood is cut, you can see layers of distinctly different wood grains meshed together.
Again, this is not your typical glued layers of alder and mahogany plywood. Instead it's layers of alder and mahogany pressure compressed into each other. The grain of both woods become intermeshed and it's really hard to see the actual layers. In some cases, it's undetectable depending on how they cut the slab of wood.
Epiphone still uses a 1/4" slab of maple for their caps. Sometimes you'll luck out and get a solid maple cap, Usually the caps are 3 - 4 pieces glued together. To hide this, they will use a very thin maple veneer on top to hide this. Once this is glued, it's impossible to detect unless you view the underside of the maple cap. This is how they can sell their LP copies with quilted and flamed maple tops for so cheap. The flamed and quilted maple top is actually a thin veneer that is glued on top of a normal maple cap.
Tom
theboatcandream
dreamonologist
Re: Epiphone LP's and woods...
Often, it's a simple case of looking inside the neck cavity. Sometimes you have to do some sanding if it's a solid finish.
BloodRose said:
Often, it's a simple case of looking inside the neck cavity. Sometimes you have to do some sanding if it's a solid finish.
