Porto Leone
New member
is the body wood mahogany really? i know that standard, custom, Iommi and goth G-400s are made of particle board and covered with mahogany veneer, but what about this specific model?
Epiphone SG: G-400 Vintage
- Thread starter Porto Leone
- Start date
Benjy_26
25's Nemesis
Re: Epiphone SG: G-400 Vintage
There's a big difference between multi-piece bodies and particle board. I've worked on some Std's and Customs and most look like mahogany in the pickup and control cavities.
I'm not sure about the Specials or the fadeds as I've not had much experience with them.
There's a big difference between multi-piece bodies and particle board. I've worked on some Std's and Customs and most look like mahogany in the pickup and control cavities.
I'm not sure about the Specials or the fadeds as I've not had much experience with them.
theboatcandream
dreamonologist
Re: Epiphone SG: G-400 Vintage
I don't think Epiphone has made any guitars made of particle board. Alder, yes. So it might be a five piece alder body with mahogany veneer front and back.
I don't think Epiphone has made any guitars made of particle board. Alder, yes. So it might be a five piece alder body with mahogany veneer front and back.
jmh151
Active member
Re: Epiphone SG: G-400 Vintage
On that specific model, yes, it is made of A mahogany- a form of mahogany, probably luan, known as phillipine mahogany.
These days guitar manufacturers have found very cheap wood alternatives to plywood. It's becoming rarer to find a solidbody made of plywood. Rather there's a bunch of equally crappy woods they'll use in its place.
On that specific model, yes, it is made of A mahogany- a form of mahogany, probably luan, known as phillipine mahogany.
These days guitar manufacturers have found very cheap wood alternatives to plywood. It's becoming rarer to find a solidbody made of plywood. Rather there's a bunch of equally crappy woods they'll use in its place.
blueman335
Mojo's Minions
Re: Epiphone SG: G-400 Vintage
There was a recent post about G-310's having particle board bodies, but what do you expect for a beginner model with a bolt-on neck? They scrimp on everything.
I have re-wired a number of set-neck Epi LP's, SG's, & 335's and all are real wood. Their SG's especially are a good deal for the money; put in a set of American-made PU's, and you have a professional-sounding guitar. Get the facts straight before you start any more rumors.
There was a recent post about G-310's having particle board bodies, but what do you expect for a beginner model with a bolt-on neck? They scrimp on everything.
I have re-wired a number of set-neck Epi LP's, SG's, & 335's and all are real wood. Their SG's especially are a good deal for the money; put in a set of American-made PU's, and you have a professional-sounding guitar. Get the facts straight before you start any more rumors.
Porto Leone
New member
Re: Epiphone SG: G-400 Vintage
on the forums people say their Epi G400 (not 310 or special) is made of plywood... maybe they're wrong. for sure the G-400's body material as it looks on the Epiphone factory in China is a light-colored wood (possibly alder) with thin mahogany veneer. Philippine mahogany is very similar to agathis, which IMHO is an awful tonewood.
on the forums people say their Epi G400 (not 310 or special) is made of plywood... maybe they're wrong. for sure the G-400's body material as it looks on the Epiphone factory in China is a light-colored wood (possibly alder) with thin mahogany veneer. Philippine mahogany is very similar to agathis, which IMHO is an awful tonewood.
cream123
JustAskinologist
Re: Epiphone SG: G-400 Vintage
hahahahahahahaha, That picture is hilarious....solid mahagonay.....
hahahahahahahaha, That picture is hilarious....solid mahagonay.....
Animal
Well-known member
Re: Epiphone SG: G-400 Vintage
My mate has a G-400 Vintage and it's a certainly a nice sounding guitar. I remember reading a while back that the Vintage G-400s are supposed to be superior than the standard G400s. Something to do with the neck construction or how many pieces it was comprised of I think.
My mate has a G-400 Vintage and it's a certainly a nice sounding guitar. I remember reading a while back that the Vintage G-400s are supposed to be superior than the standard G400s. Something to do with the neck construction or how many pieces it was comprised of I think.
Porto Leone
New member
blueman335
Mojo's Minions
Re: Epiphone SG: G-400 Vintage
There are a number of unrelated trees that are called "mahogany" in the trade. Some woods are getting rare & expensive because of over-harvesting. Electric guitar manufacturers settled on certain woods back in the 1950's because they were available & inexpensive. Sitka Spruce doesn't necessarily have a better tone than other spruces, but it was tradionally used because it was plentiful 50 years ago. Now its rare, but guitar tone won't necessarily suffer when they substitute with other spruces.
With so many forests being destroyed worldwide, different trees are more numerous & affordable now,as many more countries are being developed. There are trees now from areas that were inaccessable a few decades ago. Doesn't always mean that those woods have a worse tone, or that the species used in the 1950's were the world's best trees for guitars. They certainly didn't try them all; very few actually. Most forests were still intact.
Because of environmental conditions, no two pieces of wood are identical, even if cut from the same tree, because of variations in weight, grain, water content, etc. Ted McCarty once said that the same size piece of mahogany could weigh 5 lbs to 25 lbs depending on the mineral content absorbed from the soil it grew in. Did an area suffer from drought, flood, freeze, insects, etc that could effect a tree's growth & therefore tone quality. To automatically assume that there's a handful of magic woods that are always wonderful, and everything else is crap, is pretty naive.
There are a number of unrelated trees that are called "mahogany" in the trade. Some woods are getting rare & expensive because of over-harvesting. Electric guitar manufacturers settled on certain woods back in the 1950's because they were available & inexpensive. Sitka Spruce doesn't necessarily have a better tone than other spruces, but it was tradionally used because it was plentiful 50 years ago. Now its rare, but guitar tone won't necessarily suffer when they substitute with other spruces.
With so many forests being destroyed worldwide, different trees are more numerous & affordable now,as many more countries are being developed. There are trees now from areas that were inaccessable a few decades ago. Doesn't always mean that those woods have a worse tone, or that the species used in the 1950's were the world's best trees for guitars. They certainly didn't try them all; very few actually. Most forests were still intact.
Because of environmental conditions, no two pieces of wood are identical, even if cut from the same tree, because of variations in weight, grain, water content, etc. Ted McCarty once said that the same size piece of mahogany could weigh 5 lbs to 25 lbs depending on the mineral content absorbed from the soil it grew in. Did an area suffer from drought, flood, freeze, insects, etc that could effect a tree's growth & therefore tone quality. To automatically assume that there's a handful of magic woods that are always wonderful, and everything else is crap, is pretty naive.
jmh151
Active member
Re: Epiphone SG: G-400 Vintage
Perfect example- Honduras Mahogany. That wood used to be relatively cheap, to the point where the hull of every wooden boat made up until the 70's (in the 70's the started using fibreglass) . Up until that point, any mahogany you got was honduras mahogany. Once it started getting expensive due to overharvesting, other species of mahogany started popping up from different areas.
In the marine world, Honduran mahogany was used since it was resistant to water damage, warping, and was easy to work with. These days honduran mahogany has been replaced with epoxy saturated plywood with honduran mahogany laminates.
Instrument building, particularly guitars, is a much smaller industry than boats or furniture making. Since the boating industry no longer uses alot of honduran mahogany for the hulls of their boats, and most furniture companies now use veneer, the demand for honduran mahogany throughout the world has deminished.
I've seen Luan, or Phillipine mahogany mistakenly used on a boat. It was extremely unstable and warped quickly. That is the same mahogany current epiphones are made of. I wouldn't trust it on any guitar neck- which is why the first epiphones all have maple necks.
Perfect example- Honduras Mahogany. That wood used to be relatively cheap, to the point where the hull of every wooden boat made up until the 70's (in the 70's the started using fibreglass) . Up until that point, any mahogany you got was honduras mahogany. Once it started getting expensive due to overharvesting, other species of mahogany started popping up from different areas.
In the marine world, Honduran mahogany was used since it was resistant to water damage, warping, and was easy to work with. These days honduran mahogany has been replaced with epoxy saturated plywood with honduran mahogany laminates.
Instrument building, particularly guitars, is a much smaller industry than boats or furniture making. Since the boating industry no longer uses alot of honduran mahogany for the hulls of their boats, and most furniture companies now use veneer, the demand for honduran mahogany throughout the world has deminished.
I've seen Luan, or Phillipine mahogany mistakenly used on a boat. It was extremely unstable and warped quickly. That is the same mahogany current epiphones are made of. I wouldn't trust it on any guitar neck- which is why the first epiphones all have maple necks.
MikeS
Bengalsologist
Re: Epiphone SG: G-400 Vintage
I know lauan is very porous and typically far more difficult to finish than a honduran mahogany, but I wonder if the stability and warping issues have more to do with the fact it doesn't resist moisture well. There seem to be a lot of varieties that would all have different structural capabilities: http://www.woodfinder.com/woods/lauan.php
I know lauan is very porous and typically far more difficult to finish than a honduran mahogany, but I wonder if the stability and warping issues have more to do with the fact it doesn't resist moisture well. There seem to be a lot of varieties that would all have different structural capabilities: http://www.woodfinder.com/woods/lauan.php
blueman335
Mojo's Minions
Re: Epiphone SG: G-400 Vintage
Of course, a marine environment (ultra high humidity with salt and sun) is an extreme test for any wood (or metal and electronics). For a guitar that spends most of its life in a plush hard case under a bed, in a climate-controlled room, its wood will never have anywhere near that level of stress, and will probably never come close to warping.
A porous wood should give a warmer tone, right? Which to me is a good thing. If that same wood isn't suitable for building boats, that's not a major concern of mine, as my guitars will never get near those extremes. In general, wouldn't porous wood also be more susceptible to warping, as there's more area exposed to absorb humidity? And logically, hard, dense wood should be less likely to warp (and have a brighter tone)? With so many kinds of trees being harvested now (not a good thing), we may stumble on woods that have as good as, or better tones than the few traditional ones (which is a good thing). Besides, so many of us have different opinions of what is a good guitar tone or a good PU.
There's a lot of factors to look at with wood, and our musical applications can be very different from what other industries are looking for. Just like tubes are considered hopelessly obsolete in almost everything, except guitar amps, where their flaws are considered virtues.
Of course, a marine environment (ultra high humidity with salt and sun) is an extreme test for any wood (or metal and electronics). For a guitar that spends most of its life in a plush hard case under a bed, in a climate-controlled room, its wood will never have anywhere near that level of stress, and will probably never come close to warping.
A porous wood should give a warmer tone, right? Which to me is a good thing. If that same wood isn't suitable for building boats, that's not a major concern of mine, as my guitars will never get near those extremes. In general, wouldn't porous wood also be more susceptible to warping, as there's more area exposed to absorb humidity? And logically, hard, dense wood should be less likely to warp (and have a brighter tone)? With so many kinds of trees being harvested now (not a good thing), we may stumble on woods that have as good as, or better tones than the few traditional ones (which is a good thing). Besides, so many of us have different opinions of what is a good guitar tone or a good PU.
There's a lot of factors to look at with wood, and our musical applications can be very different from what other industries are looking for. Just like tubes are considered hopelessly obsolete in almost everything, except guitar amps, where their flaws are considered virtues.
Porto Leone
New member
Re: Epiphone SG: G-400 Vintage
so, i assume that the body wood an all Epi G-400 is the same (of course with the add of a flame maple -veneer or cup?- on the Deluxe). Let's suppose that the Lauan is ok for guitars and is the pale colored wood on the pics... why do they put a real(?) mahogany veneer on top?
so, i assume that the body wood an all Epi G-400 is the same (of course with the add of a flame maple -veneer or cup?- on the Deluxe). Let's suppose that the Lauan is ok for guitars and is the pale colored wood on the pics... why do they put a real(?) mahogany veneer on top?
blueman335
Mojo's Minions
Re: Epiphone SG: G-400 Vintage
Nicer grain to show through on the transluscent finish? Its got to be cosmetic reasons, although it would have some impact on the tone, even if slight.
They most likely wanted a porous warm-toned wood for the body, and Lauan is probably readily available and priced right. Doesn't mean the tone is necessarily better or worse than another choice of wood. I'd sure rather have an SG with Lauan, than a bright, heavy maple body.
Nicer grain to show through on the transluscent finish? Its got to be cosmetic reasons, although it would have some impact on the tone, even if slight.
They most likely wanted a porous warm-toned wood for the body, and Lauan is probably readily available and priced right. Doesn't mean the tone is necessarily better or worse than another choice of wood. I'd sure rather have an SG with Lauan, than a bright, heavy maple body.
jmh151
Active member
Re: Epiphone SG: G-400 Vintage
Because they're using multiple pieces of mismatched Luan. The veneer covers up the seams between the pieces
Is is very possible that better tonewoods may be discovered. Alder was used on strats in the 50's, but Leo Fender used it because it was readily available. It wasn't considered a tonewood, it was used for building cabinets. The first teles were even made of pine. Mahogany was plentiful and cheap up until the early 70's.
Because they're using multiple pieces of mismatched Luan. The veneer covers up the seams between the pieces
Is is very possible that better tonewoods may be discovered. Alder was used on strats in the 50's, but Leo Fender used it because it was readily available. It wasn't considered a tonewood, it was used for building cabinets. The first teles were even made of pine. Mahogany was plentiful and cheap up until the early 70's.
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Artie
Peaveyologist
Re: Epiphone SG: G-400 Vintage
That was my guitar, and I started the thread in this forum. Someone else started the thread in the Epiphone forum. I'm thoroughly convinced that my guitar is a fake G-310. Seemed like cool and knowledgable folks in the EPI forum.
I don't think EPI makes particleboard guitars.
That was my guitar, and I started the thread in this forum. Someone else started the thread in the Epiphone forum. I'm thoroughly convinced that my guitar is a fake G-310. Seemed like cool and knowledgable folks in the EPI forum.
I don't think EPI makes particleboard guitars.
MikeS
Bengalsologist
Re: Epiphone SG: G-400 Vintage
When you say particle board, do you mean a high/medium density compressed fiberboard like an MDF type material, or do you mean honest to goodness particle board made from epoxy, various woods, plastics, and metals?
Simply curious. A real deal particle board body would be about as heavy as I imagine a "wood" guitar body could be. That stuff is generally super heavy.
When you say particle board, do you mean a high/medium density compressed fiberboard like an MDF type material, or do you mean honest to goodness particle board made from epoxy, various woods, plastics, and metals?
Simply curious. A real deal particle board body would be about as heavy as I imagine a "wood" guitar body could be. That stuff is generally super heavy.
