“Equivalent" pickups

[zionstrat]

I'm working on a list of pickups that are essentially exact replacements for each other. Interested in your thoughts of pickups from different manufacturers that pretty much sound identical to other models.

Not talking about "close"(edited... Per following thread, I changed my mind and "close" is probably good enough) but I don't care about technical details. Obviously two PAF clones with the same winds and magnets might sound identical, But if somebody achieved the same sound was completely different configuration, I wouldn't care.

Not expecting the list will be extremely long but very interested in your thoughts.

 

[Aceman]

Like a C5 and a Gibson 498? or
Duncan Distortion and 500T?

I consider those to be equivalent.

 

[beaubrummels]

I've never heard two pickups from different or even the same manufacturer that sounded that close to be exact replacements or even 'equivalent'. I could articulate specifics about what is different about each. AND the same pickup can sound very different in different guitars. A Distortion in my Les Paul and that same Distortion in my Jackson almost aren't recognizable as the same pickup.

 

[CipherArcher]

Pariah Pasadena White & Duncan 78

 

[jeremy]

Like a C5 and a Gibson 498? or
Duncan Distortion and 500T?

I consider those to be equivalent.

really?

 

[Aceman]

really?

Yes really. Not exactly, but so similar it practically does not matter.

500T is very very close to Distortion.

498 is a 14k A5 bass/highs pup. A C% is very similar, but better IMO. C5 is the pickup the 498 wants to be.

YMMV

 

[Aceman]

I've never heard two pickups from different or even the same manufacturer that sounded that close to be exact replacements or even 'equivalent'. I could articulate specifics about what is different about each. AND the same pickup can sound very different in different guitars. A Distortion in my Les Paul and that same Distortion in my Jackson almost aren't recognizable as the same pickup.

But a 500T in either would be so similar you might not care. Could you detect very small differences? Perhaps. So different you'd feel the need to swap? Doubt it. At least I wouldn't.


But total agree on EXACT replacement. A lot of SIMILAR or VERY CLOSE things out there. But not exact.

 

[Mikelamury]

Like a C5 and a Gibson 498? or
Duncan Distortion and 500T?

I consider those to be equivalent.

Really I've been looking for a pickup that sounds close to the 498T, I'm going to try the C5 never have before but I the custom is my favorite pickup. Does the C5 have more or less mids than the custom?

 

[zionstrat]

I've never heard two pickups from different or even the same manufacturer that sounded that close to be exact replacements or even 'equivalent'. I could articulate specifics about what is different about each. AND the same pickup can sound very different in different guitars. A Distortion in my Les Paul and that same Distortion in my Jackson almost aren't recognizable as the same pickup.

Totally agreed that pickups sound different in different guitars.. what I'm getting at is if you put one version of a PAF in a guitar and somebody else's PAF in the same guitar, are you likely to say that's pretty much the same pickup.

And I would imagine the majority of the overlap would be with PAF styles, however...

​​One of the things that got me thinking about this was another recent thread where I think somebody said the Duncan distortion and the demarzio distortion are practically the same pickup. I maybe remembering it incorrectly and that's the reason I started this thread.

 

[beaubrummels]

Totally agreed that pickups sound different in different guitars.. what I'm getting at is if you put one version of a PAF in a guitar and somebody else's PAF in the same guitar, are you likely to say that's pretty much the same pickup.

And I would imagine the majority of the overlap would be with PAF styles, however...

​​One of the things that got me thinking about this was another recent thread where I think somebody said the Duncan distortion and the demarzio distortion are practically the same pickup. I maybe remembering it incorrectly and that's the reason I started this thread.

Actually, PAF types are the ones that vary the most, IME. The Skinnerburst, Burstbucker, Bursbucker Pro, CustomBucker, Seth Lover, 36th PAF, Pearly Gates, etc. all sound different. If they all sounded the same, each vendor would only make one model.

The thing is, why does anyone need an equivalent? If you want a 498T, just get one and install it. If you want a Distortion, just install one. Trying to find something 'similar' / 'equivalent' just means you'll likely be disappointed by what's actually different between them.

 

[zionstrat]

What I mean, is a lot of people will create 7.5 k coil PAFs with a long A5, and assuming they're machine wound, they're going to sound similar.

Of course everybody and their brother has a variation on this theme as you listed.

But sometimes they're going to be essentially the same pickup as other pickups and then they're going to sound very similar to each other.

Of course, a lot of the work choosing pickups is art. But if it's true that the Duncan distortion and the demarzio distortion are extremely similar and a client doesn't like the demarzio, it's a no-brainer to avoid the Duncan... Again assuming they are very similar pickups which I don't know, which is why I'm asking the question.

And as a bonus, I expect there will be plenty of disagreement, which might help uncover stereotypes


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[zionstrat]

But a 500T in either would be so similar you might not care. Could you detect very small differences? Perhaps. So different you'd feel the need to swap? Doubt it. At least I wouldn't.


But total agree on EXACT replacement. A lot of SIMILAR or VERY CLOSE things out there. But not exact.

Yeah Ace, I should have said close... that will get me what I'm looking for.

 

[Aceman]

Really I've been looking for a pickup that sounds close to the 498T, I'm going to try the C5 never have before but I the custom is my favorite pickup. Does the C5 have more or less mids than the custom?

Less. Notably less.

Just like a Custom with an A2 has more mids. Notably more.

 

[Aceman]

I think somebody said the Duncan distortion and the demarzio distortion are practically the same pickup. I maybe remembering it incorrectly and that's the reason I started this thread.

That person is an idiot.

SuperD = Bass Mids, Enough highs, thick, a little fizzy/hairy in the lower registers, and hot

DD = Enough tight bass, mids, highs, is crisp, a screamer in the upper mids/highs, and very hot

In the same Guitar:
Super D is Iron Maiden (Beast/Piece)
Duncan D is Judas Priest (Screaming/Defenders)

 

[beaubrummels]

What I mean, is a lot of people will create 7.5 k coil PAFs with a long A5, and assuming they're machine wound, they're going to sound similar.

Of course everybody and their brother has a variation on this theme as you listed.

But sometimes they're going to be essentially the same pickup as other pickups and then they're going to sound very similar to each other.

Of course, a lot of the work choosing pickups is art. But if it's true that the Duncan distortion and the demarzio distortion are extremely similar and a client doesn't like the demarzio, it's a no-brainer to avoid the Duncan... Again assuming they are very similar pickups which I don't know, which is why I'm asking the question.

And as a bonus, I expect there will be plenty of disagreement, which might help uncover stereotypes


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If you read past threads on here from winders and employees of the company, you'll find that isn't true. Having the same wire, same number of turns and same specs on paper does not really indicate what it will sound like. A former Duncan employee once pointed out that the way you pack the wire on the bobbin changes it's sound, for example, he said packing most of the turns near the top of the bobbin increases it's treble response. You might be able to guess what a pickup's general tone profile might be from the mag and wire, but you'll always be surprised when you actually install it and try it. I guess if some players aren't very discerning, they might think all PAFs sound the same, just like they must think all pizza tastes the same, as long as it has the exact same ingredients.

Pearly Gates bridge and Seth bridge are both ~8.2k Alnico 2 PAF-type pickups. They don't sound anything alike.
59 Model bridge and Jazz bridge are both ~8.2k Alnico 5 PAF-type pickups. They don't sound alike either.

(For the record a Duncan Distortion and a DiMarzio Super Distortion do not sound alike. Both are ceramic mags, but Duncan Distortion is 16.6k with slugs and screws, Super Distortion is 13.68k with hex poles. In general, the Distortion is bright and tight, with top end and bottom to it, the Super Distortion is more of a midrange monster in comparison.)

 

[Aceman]

Actually, PAF types are the ones that vary the most, IME. The Skinnerburst, Burstbucker, Bursbucker Pro, CustomBucker, Seth Lover, 36th PAF, Pearly Gates, etc. all sound different. If they all sounded the same, each vendor would only make one model.

I'll agree with this to a degree. I think there are certain examples where they might sound very different, and others where they might be very similar.

Examples:

Seth & BB Pro...to me, very different
Duncan 59 and DMZ 36th, pretty similar to me.

I'll say I prefer a PG, to a DMZ PAF, to the Duncan 59. I feel the PG is a significant degree of different from the other two. But not "as" different as a Seth and a PG.


And of course, clean impact > blasted into high gain territory. I always listen to pups through my Fender Pro Jr. kind of on the edge of a little breakup. You really hear the difference when a PAF hits it vs an X2N

 

[zionstrat]

Pearly Gates bridge and Seth bridge are both ~8.2k Alnico 2 PAF-type pickups. They don't sound anything alike.
59 Model bridge and Jazz bridge are both ~8.2k Alnico 5 PAF-type pickups. They don't sound alike either.

I completely agree with this, but that kind of is the point... They were intentionally designed to do different things.

So maybe there are no two pickups models out there that are very similar? Interested in all thoughts.

 

[Mr. B]

Yeah. I have played a LOT of pickups from Duncan and Dimarzio. I can't think of any two that sound the same. They might be in the ballpark, but you said you wanted identical.

 

[zionstrat]

Yeah. I have played a LOT of pickups from Duncan and Dimarzio. I can't think of any two that sound the same. They might be in the ballpark, but you said you wanted identical.

Well, I modified my criteria to 'close' considering what I'm trying to do.

 

[zionstrat]

Seth & BB Pro...to me, very different
Duncan 59 and DMZ 36th, pretty similar to me.

There you go... This is exactly what I'm looking for... Others may disagree with you, but now I've got a data point.