“Equivalent" pickups

[Mincer]

I think pickup makers are more interested in carving their own swath of tone out there, rather than copying each other. I wish it was that way for music as a whole.

 

[ehdwuld]

There are tons of off brand Amazon pickups
with the exact same specs as the JB/JAZZ
But they so sound very close to those

 

[freefrog]

That's where technical measurements can be useful: measuring the LRC specs and Gauss/Tesla flux then inducing the resonant peak(s) and impulse response of a pickup already gives many infos, opening to some educated guess. Sadly, it requires lab gear that most people haven't at disposal.

And it never gives the full picture anyway because of external factors : pots resistance, cable capacitance and pickups height interact with the acoustic resonance of each instrument in a way able to alter radically the voicing of a transducer...

That being said and to answer to the question with a concrete example : a SSL1 is "equivalent" to the mid pickup of the L Series Strat that I've periodically here in maintenance. It has not the same DCR (6.5k vs 6k for the "real thing") but it exhibits the same inductance (2.6H) and an almost identical resonant peak. Now, its rod magnets have also a stronger magnetism, hence a difference in tone...

Conversely and IME, a DiMarzio 36th b has higher DCR and inductance than a Duncan 59b, along with a weaker magnetism and a noticeably different coils coupling... but I totally see how one could make them sound "equivalent" to each other by external means and why they can give the same overall impression.

To end on something possibly useful: the Atlantic Audio pickups database accessible below appears to me as an handy tool. If one ticks one or several of the boxes responding to a lenght and capacitance of cable typically used (rather than one of the Zerocap cable settings, useless for most players), it gives a rather realistic idea of induced resonant peaks for the models listed. It doesn't reveal anything about magnetism and ASDR envelopes but it's better than nothing and tells someting about the typical EQing curve of such or such transducer...

http://zerocapcable.com/?page_id=400

The list below is also interesting. It has been published by a self-taught "specialist" that I sadly find extremely dogmatic in his approach (with a clear tendency to deny what he doesn't grasp or has experimented himself) but he has done a great work when it comes to measurements, that I find on par with my own private data in most cases. And he has generously left the whole at disposal online so it doesn't harm to share the link:

http://echoesofmars.com/pickup_data...raphs~(~)~filters~(~)~filters_not~(~)~filter~')

FWIW. HTH.

 

[El Dunco]

That person is an idiot.

SuperD = Bass Mids, Enough highs, thick, a little fizzy/hairy in the lower registers, and hot

DD = Enough tight bass, mids, highs, is crisp, a screamer in the upper mids/highs, and very hot

In the same Guitar:
Super D is Iron Maiden (Beast/Piece)
Duncan D is Judas Priest (Screaming/Defenders)

Yeah, they’re not remotely the same. The Super D has very distinct, motorcycle sounding high mids (the word “chewy” comes up a lot in descriptions/reviews.). IMO, the DD is quite tight and clear under hi-gain, more modern metal friendly which is why it’s still so popular and comes in 7/8 string active soapbar shapes.

 

[Aceman]

Yes

SuperD is chewy
Duncan D is crunchy

 

[zionstrat]

So far, consensus seems to be that there are very few pickups that sound alike... Considering we spend most of our time focus on the differentiators, I guess that isn't much of a surprise.

Thanks again for feedback!

 

[ehdwuld]

Almost any pickup is a tweak of the EQ away from whatever you 3

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Yes really. Not exactly, but so similar it practically does not matter.

500T is very very close to Distortion.

498 is a 14k A5 bass/highs pup. A C% is very similar, but better IMO. C5 is the pickup the 498 wants to be.

YMMV

I'm going to 100% agree on the 500T and Duncan Distortion. If you're super picky about your high-output ceramic pickups, there are certainly differences. But in the grand scheme of things, they are a lot more similar than different. Especially if you have a wide variety of pickups in your guitars. I wouldn't say they're *clones*, but they're both certainly prototypical grindy, dirty, hot, rude high-output Ceramic firebreathers with some crushed glass upper mids on top.

498T and C5... I don't know. I mean, on paper, they are, no discussion. But to me, the 498T is voiced more like a JB lite and the C5 is more like a '59 that needs to hit the treadmill.

I mean... yeah, they're both overwound A5 mid-output pickups. They're certainly going to have more in common between each other than to a... I don't know... Invader or Dimebucker. But I would say that as far as overwound A5 mid-output pickups, they might almost be polar opposites.

JMO, of course.

 

[freefrog]

For the record, the inductance of a 500T measures 7.7H, vs 7.5H for a Duncan Distortion. Double or triple dose of ceramic in both, if memory serves me (3 mags in the Gibson HB, one double thick in the DD). No wonder if they sound close to each other...

 

[beaubrummels]

FWIW IME they are close in output and have some characteristics in common, but do sound recognizably different to me. In my Les Paul, the Distortion was tight and had a thicker bottom end and open bright top end. The 500T was tight and had some chime (upper mid, not as much top end/treble as a Distortion), sounded like a louder Slash that was tighter, but had a thick rock mid to it, but not a spike or bump to it; it was just solid and filled in. The Distortion is pretty even across the mids, nothing stuck out. YMMV. Ace and I have different Les Pauls and different amps, so slightly different experiences. (But I have an SL-X! ;-)

 

[Rex_Rocker]

It was bound to be a controversial statement, LOL.

 

[ToneFiddler]

…
498T and C5... I don't know. I mean, on paper, they are, no discussion. But to me, the 498T is voiced more like a JB lite and the C5 is more like a '59 that needs to hit the treadmill.

I mean... yeah, they're both overwound A5 mid-output pickups. They're certainly going to have more in common between each other than to a... I don't know... Invader or Dimebucker. But I would say that as far as overwound A5 mid-output pickups, they might almost be polar opposites.

JMO, of course.

I agree, the C5 has a scooped midrange (and is lacking for lead work (my experience)).
the 498T is kind of mid forward and I swapped them all out. Should give them another change though.
i don’t get the comparison sound wise.

the differences between most standard filtertrons or Tele necks are not very huge if they use the same formula. The construction/dimensional with these seems to have a big impact on the overall sound.
of course they vary with different turn count, different wire and materials.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

FWIW IME they are close in output and have some characteristics in common, but do sound recognizably different to me. In my Les Paul, the Distortion was tight and had a thicker bottom end and open bright top end. The 500T was tight and had some chime (upper mid, not as much top end/treble as a Distortion), sounded like a louder Slash that was tighter, but had a thick rock mid to it, but not a spike or bump to it; it was just solid and filled in. The Distortion is pretty even across the mids, nothing stuck out. YMMV. Ace and I have different Les Pauls and different amps, so slightly different experiences. (But I have an SL-X! ;-)

I 100% agree with this as well, but that doesn't really make me disagree with Ace's statement about the 500T and Distortion being close.

If you're used to playing, comparing and contrasting, and disseminating the difference between 15-16K Ceramic high-output pickups, you'll probably find there is no way the Distortion and the 500T are clones. I 100% agree. I prefer the 500T, personally. I find it a little rougher around the edges gith that rasp up top that characterizes most Gibson pickpus, but I'd gladly use a Distortion too. Then there's the Black Winter which is sort of along those lines, just different. Then there's Dimebucker and X2N, both radically different. I've also had the Dominion that's another thing on its own. And it's been ages since I've tried the Invader, and I've never tried the Dirty Fingers, which are sort of along those lines as well. The Hunter? The Exciter as well? All different, or else they wouldn't even bother making them.

But if you're constantly switching between different guitars all with very different types of pickups, I can totally understand you'd find the 500T and the Distortion close. I'd even go as far as saying the 500T and Distortion are closer between each other than the Black Winter and the Distortion (which in theory would be sort of the middle ground), but that's just me.

But yeah... as far as 498T vs. Custom Custom... I don't find those THAT close. Perhaps close in concept, but not in practice. At least not as close as the 500T and Distortion.

JMO, of course.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Then again, by those standards, you could also say the '59, WLH, Burstbucker Pro, Suhr SSV and many others are interchangeable... and maybe they are. But I wouldn't say so, personally.

 

[beaubrummels]

But if you're constantly switching between different guitars all with very different types of pickups, I can totally understand you'd find the 500T and the Distortion close. I'd even go as far as saying the 500T and Distortion are closer between each other than the Black Winter and the Distortion (which in theory would be sort of the middle ground), but that's just me.

I'd agree with this. My Black Winter set has proven to be a bit of a chameleon and changes more dramatically depending on the guitar. The Distortion and 500T remained a bit more consistent across different guitars. In my Les Paul Studio, the Black Winter sounded flat, lacking in some character, almost like an active pickup, it was the first time I needed to change my amp settings to get some character out of it. But when I put the bridge BW in my Jackson, it was like a bright tight Distortion with some warm mids, sounded like a different pickup. The Distortion in the same two guitars, in the LP Studio was bright, reasonably tight, but had a thick bottom end, while in the Jackson it was completely bright and tight top to bottom, but recognizable and consistent because the mids and top end stayed the same.

 

[ToneFiddler]

i throw in the HB103 and duncan distortion.

but some guys say, that the modern JB is a different pickup than an old one.
So it's all relative, what you define as close.

 

[Aceman]

i throw in the HB103 and duncan distortion.

but some guys say, that the modern JB is a different pickup than an old one.
So it's all relative, what you define as close.

The HB 103 is "based on" the Distortion. And the 108 is the 103 with Invader caps. The guys who said that work at Duncan.

 

[ToneFiddler]

The HB 103 is "based on" the Distortion. And the 108 is the 103 with Invader caps. The guys who said that work at Duncan.

Yes that’s why I throw in the HB103 compared to the sh6

the Passage is not related to the HB103, it’s just to show that people have different perceptions of what is close

 

[larryguitar]

A better goal would be 'Similar' pickups, IMHO. That could be a very interesting list.

Larry

 

[zionstrat]

Funny, that's what I was thinking