Escape from a diatonic universe! For Sune!

[Osensei]

This is in response to Sune's post concerning the ability to play a C maj scale against an A min chord. I have provided a sample clip and a sheet of notation below that I hope will help to illustrate my point. I apologize for the crappy notation! My software doesn't write scores very well. But it should suffice for this example as I'll attempt to explain in future posts as we go along.

The first 4 bars are based on your diatonic C maj scale. The rest utilized various harmonic extensions.

Clip:
http://70.241.187.105/nirvana/cstrike/sample.mp3
http://70.241.187.105/nirvana/cstrike/sample.tif

This is not supposed to represent a well thoughtout solo. It's just to give you a feel of how extended modal textures would sound against your particular chord of choice.

As I've stated in previous post, when it comes to selecting modes to play against chords, diatonics can get dangerously close to plain old boredom! When faced with these choices however, it helps to have knowledge of chord substitution as well as a complete knowledge of chord extensions.

Inspect the chord Am (ACE) or Am7 (ACEG). If I invert the chord then I get C6 (CEGA). You could say therefore that C6 and Amin are practically the same chord. Now I'm thinking Cmaj triad w/ a 13th added (A being the 13th of course). This opens up a whole new world of tonal possibilties for the soloist. This is because now instead of just thinking in terms of minor tonalities (dorian, harmonic/melodic minor), we have added the additional possibilities of introducing Maj7th & Dom 7th possibilities.

C6 or CEGA says nothing about the 7th, 9th or 11th in the harmonic scheme. Therefore this leaves these possible extensions to the interpretation of the soloist. So now I'm free to introduce any of the following into my melodic scheme.

Bb = for Dom7th sound (jazzy/bluesy)
B = for Maj7th sound (jazzy/mellow)
Db = for Dom7b9 sound (jazzy/bluesy)
D = 9th (jazzy/bluesy)
D#(Eb) = raise 9th or (Dom7 alt bluesy sound)
F = Dom7(11)
F# = Dom7/Maj7 raise 11th

The idea is to take advantage of all of the possible harmonic colors that can be layered on top of our C maj tonality (which really is Amin). That includes all of the possible alterations( b5, +5, dom7, maj7, b9th and so on ).

 

[Sune]

Re: Escape from a diatonic universe! For Sune!

That's a bit advanced, I'll read it a couple of times to try and get an understanding of it. Thanks

 

[Sune]

Re: Escape from a diatonic universe! For Sune!

I can see, that in the book I have, the major scales have "blue" notes included, flatted 3rds, 5ths and 7ths. Is this some of the stuff you're trying to explain?

 

[Osensei]

Re: Escape from a diatonic universe! For Sune!

Absolutely! Lets just deal with a simple chord for now. Lets say the rythm section is vamping on a simple C maj triad (CEG) for the soloist to improvise on. As a soloist you must realize that each note that you play has an effect on the final chord that is heard by the listener. Playing any of the chord tones (CE or G) in your solo therefore would reinforce the final chord (C maj) that is presented. In the same way playing certain pitches that are not present in the chord has the effect of transforming the final chord sound to something completely different. You have the power at any given moment to change the color of the final harmonic scheme by your note choice.

The problem you face is how close or how far from the original chord sound do you want these transformations to venture. The first step in answering this question is to know all of the possiblities. Since we're talking about a C maj triad, then we must list all of the chords which are based on a C maj triad:

C maj - C E G
C7 -C E G Bb
C7b9 -C E G Bb Db
C9 -C E G Bb D
C+9 -C E G Bb D#
C711 -C E G Bb D F
C7+11 -C E G Bb D F#
Cb13 -C E G Bb D F Ab
C13 -C E G Bb D A
C(+11)13 -C E G Bb D F# A

This may not be a complete list, but it represents some chords from the Dom 7th family that are based on a C maj triad. If we condense all of the notes from this list of chords and place them in order we get something like:
C Db D D#(Eb) E F F#(Gb) G G#(Ab) A Bb.

This is why the Dom 7th chord is one of the most versitile chords in any style of music. The list of notes that will work on a dom 7 chord is virtually the whole friggin chormatic scale! You can do the same for Maj 7th harmonies as well:

C triad - C E G (C maj triad)
Cmaj7 - C E G B (B here instead of Bb)
Cmaj9 - C E G B D and so on ....

You'll find that Maj 7th harmonic schemes can be quite ugly when you use certain extensions like b9ths (Db), +9ths(D#) or b13th (Ab). I also like to use +11th (F#) for major 7th harmonies rather than natural 11ths (F). The accidentals (#'s and b's) are actually part of the harmony. Blue notes as they are called are really extensions of the overall harmonic scheme of a given base chord. Although, many books and educational materials explain them as being outside notes, they actually belong to the chord if you extend the harmony all the way out. And that's why they work!

Consider a blues scale in the key of C. It has and Eb(minor third) in it. But yet it is played against a dom7 chord based on C maj. Well guess what? Eb could be considered a minor third, but it can also be considered to be an +9th as in the extended chord C7(+9) or C alt. That would be spelled C E G Bb D#(Eb). And thats why a blues scales work against major chords even though they have a minor 3rd in them! Because the so-called minor third (Eb) is actually a chord extension (+9 or D#).

Now if I rearrange my Amin7 chord to C E G A instead the original A C E G then I can call it C6. Since C6 is a major chord with no 7th in it then I'm free to treat it as either a Maj 7th(13) or a Dom 7th(13). In my example I chose the Dom 7th treatment because it lets me go wild!

 

[Sune]

Re: Escape from a diatonic universe! For Sune!

Before I read it all, I must tell you that it's for playing ukulele, so there's a limit to which chords I can use, since it only has 4 strings and 12 frets (for a soprano sized uku), which kinda narrows the possibilities down. I can't make any of the really big chords, maximum 4 note chords. I'll read everything you're trying to explain now though, since I can still use the theory if I need to solo over a backing guitar, of course.

 

[Sune]

Re: Escape from a diatonic universe! For Sune!

It sounds a bit advanced, but I think once I have my ukulele, with the fretboard in front of me, the theory will be easier to understand because I can actually play the chords and the scales, and hear how they sound together.

 

[Osensei]

Re: Escape from a diatonic universe! For Sune!

Ok, what style of music are you playing? That's important.

You just need to know theoretically how to build the chords. You don't have to be able to finger them on the axe. We're talking about melody here, not how to play the chords on your instrument.

Four strings is enough to finger just about any chord, though. At least for guitar it is. It depends on how your instrument's tuning is organized I suppose. Typically, some of the notes are left out. In most cases the extensions are transposed down an octave to allow 4 string fingering. So C7(+11) would be fingered as a C7b5 (C E Gb Bb) since the +11 and the b5 fall on the same note (Gb). Normally, the +11 is in the second octave. However, since string players "normally" have only 4 fingers to fret with the C7b5 is played since it produces the same harmonic vibe as a fully extended C7+11 chord.

 

[Robert Delahunt]

Re: Escape from a diatonic universe! For Sune!

Next, 12 tone row!!

 

[Osensei]

Re: Escape from a diatonic universe! For Sune!

Shoenberg reigns supreme! :chairfall

 

[Sune]

Re: Escape from a diatonic universe! For Sune!

Ok, what style of music are you playing? That's important.

You just need to know theoretically how to build the chords. You don't have to be able to finger them on the axe. We're talking about melody here, not how to play the chords on your instrument.

Four strings is enough to finger just about any chord, though. At least for guitar it is. It depends on how your instrument's tuning is organized I suppose. Typically, some of the notes are left out. In most cases the extensions are transposed down an octave to allow 4 string fingering. So C7(+11) would be fingered as a C7b5 (C E Gb Bb) since the +11 and the b5 fall on the same note (Gb). Normally, the +11 is in the second octave. However, since string players "normally" have only 4 fingers to fret with the C7b5 is played since it produces the same harmonic vibe as a fully extended C7+11 chord.

The most common used tuning for the uke is GCEA (C6 tuning)

 

[Sune]

Re: Escape from a diatonic universe! For Sune!

Ok, what style of music are you playing? That's important.

Well I'm not really set on any particular style of music, I just have some songbooks with different songs. However, since it's a uke it's not completely the same as playing the guitar, I guess there's certain styles that sound better on a guitar and certain styles that sound better on a uke.

 

[Osensei]

Re: Escape from a diatonic universe! For Sune!

Every instrument definately has it's own voice. A Wes Montgomery solo transcribed to tenor sax sounds like crap! Give me an example of the songs in your songbook. Are they common tunes? Name a couple if you would.

 

[Sune]

Re: Escape from a diatonic universe! For Sune!

Well, most of the stuff in my books (the books I have now, I will get more later) is beginners stuff, chords, melodies, solos, etc..Not really whole songs as such, but just stuff for learning. But sure, I'll write some of the titles then, in a couple of days I'll probably order a new book, with christmas songs arranged for the uke, LOL. Should be pretty fun, because I think it's both chords and melody lines, like in these learning books, but for whole songs.

Here are some of the stuff from the books I have right now:
Sloop John B.
When The Saints Go Marching In
Amazing Grace
Wabash Cannonball
Meadowlands
Betty and Dupree
The Midnight Special
Streets Of Laredo
Hesitation Blues
Oh Mary, Don't You Weep
Little Brown Jug
Aura Lee
Aloha Oe
Buffalo Gals
In The Good Old Summertime
Oh, My Darling Clementine
Avalon
Moonlight Bay
Raggy Blues
I Used To Love You (but it's all over)
For Me And My Gal
Garage Band Rock
On The Beach At Waikiki
Frankie And Johnny
Down By The Riverside
Runnin' Wild
Take Me Out To The Ballgame
Friére Jacques
Mary Had A Little Lamb
Go Tell Aunt Rhody
Ode To Joy
Twinkle Twinkle Little Star
Oh Susanna
WildWood Flower
Shortening Bread
Boil 'Em Cabbage Down
Paw Paw Patch
Skip To My Lou
In The Moon's Pale Shimmer
She'll Be Coming 'Round The Mountain
Sinner Man
Scarborough Fair

So as you see, most of it is probably pretty folkish/bluesy stuff. However, almost none of these are complete tracks, only melody excerpts, chord excerps etc, to get me kinda used to the instrument. Then there's theory stuff with first position chords, moveable chords (D,G,B chord formations that work all over the fretboard for major chords, minor chords and 7th chords), first position major scales with blue notes, moveable major scales, 12 bar blues, minor pentatonic scale, chord progressions and chord families, chord solos, blues licks, solo examples with the different major scales as well, so not only the boring scale examples etc.

 

[Sune]

Re: Escape from a diatonic universe! For Sune!

There's a cheap book with these christmas songs as well, that I might buy:

A Holly Jolly Christmas
Blue Christmas
Christmas Time Is Here
Do You Hear What I Hear
Feliz Navidad
Frosty The Snow Man
Here Comes Santa Claus (Right Down Santa Claus Lane)
I Saw Mommy Kissing Santa Claus
I'll Be Home For Christmas
Jingle-Bell Rock
Let It Snow! Let It Snow! Let It Snow!
Mele Kalikimaka
Merry Christmas, Darling
Mistletoe And Holly
My Favorite Things
Rockin' Around The Christmas Tree
Rudolph The Red-Nosed Reindeer
Santa Claus Is Comin' To Town
Silver Bells
The Christmas Song (Chestnuts Roasting On An Open Fire)

These are whole songs. Hell, for 8 dollars I don't mind that it's christmas songs, might actually be alot of fun when christmas comes around, and it could be a good learning experience too, since ukulele tabs often both include chords and a melody line. And then if I practice the scales I can improvise my own solos over these songs too.

 

[tone4days]

Re: Escape from a diatonic universe! For Sune!

Shoenberg reigns supreme! :chairfall

i think sune needs to write a 12 tone row concerto for 'prepared' ukelele with some paperclips attached at variuos frets and insttructions for various plectra materials in different section ... perhaps felt for the lento section, and serated knife for the addagio

 

[Sune]

Re: Escape from a diatonic universe! For Sune!

:chairfall

BTW..Who would use a plectra for playing ukulele? :laugh2:

 

[Osensei]

Re: Escape from a diatonic universe! For Sune!

Sounds like modern expressionistic composers were doing shrooms long before the Woodstock generation! :chairfall

All that stuff is good for learning the instrument I suppose. But if you would learn improvisation then let me suggest you learn some jazzier standards. Apparently what you're playing now is only preparetory material. What style of music do you ultimately want to play that would require improvisation?

When my family sits around the Christmas tree and sings Silent Night, none of us are interested in hearing a solo in the middle choruses! :chairfall I think the same rule applies to Ole Susanna and Mary Had a Little Lamb.

So tell me what your ultimate goal is! What style are you ultimately interested in? Jazz, Gypsy Jazz, Fusion, Rock?

 

[Sune]

Re: Escape from a diatonic universe! For Sune!

Sounds like modern expressionistic composers were doing shrooms long before the Woodstock generation! :chairfall

All that stuff is good for learning the instrument I suppose. But if you would learn improvisation then let me suggest you learn some jazzier standards. Apparently what you're playing now is only preparetory material. What style of music do you ultimately want to play that would require improvisation?

When my family sits around the Christmas tree and sings Silent Night, none of us are interested in hearing a solo in the middle choruses! :chairfall I think the same rule applies to Ole Susanna and Mary Had a Little Lamb.

So tell me what your ultimate goal is! What style are you ultimately interested in? Jazz, Gypsy Jazz, Fusion, Rock?

I'm not really sure, but I really like some of the hawaiian style music that use the uke, and I certainly like alot of instrumental artists that use it.

And actually you are a bit wrong. For example, in the book there's a solo for "Buffalo Gals". The reason why, is because they'll try to learn you how to make a solo that doesn't stray too far from the melody, but instead really fits the rest of the song, and it sounds quite good, so I don't see anything wrong with trying it, if not for anything else, then just for learning. :laugh2:

Here's the "Buffalo Gals" example:

Melody Line:
http://download.yousendit.com/DBE0B21A4DC27748

Solo:
http://download.yousendit.com/ED8EBB8142BC1CF2

 

[Osensei]

Re: Escape from a diatonic universe! For Sune!

Well, in order for me to give advice, I was sorta expecting that you would give an example of some of the Hawain stuff like Don Tiki or The Ka'au Crater Boys. That is, if that's really the kind of stuff you're interested in.

 

[Sune]

Re: Escape from a diatonic universe! For Sune!

Well, in order for me to give advice, I was sorta expecting that you would give an example of some of the Hawain stuff like Don Tiki or The Ka'au Crater Boys. That is, if that's really the kind of stuff you're interested into.

I haven't heard Don Tiki but I have heard The Ka'au Crater Boys and that's definately the kind of hawaiian stuff I'm talking about. Troy Fernandez is a very cool player. I guess you got the right idea of what I'm talking about.