Every been tempted to just settle for one high-end guitar?

[Agileguy_101]

Re: Every been tempted to just settle for one high-end guitar?

You're inspired by price tags?

I paid $500 for my most expensive guitar, and it is the guitar that inspires me every time that I pick it up.

But from what I know of you, you would likely scoff at the idea of paying $500 for a guitar when there are G-400's and Epi Standards for $200. God forbid the idea that there could be anything better.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Every been tempted to just settle for one high-end guitar?

That works better when you bring up something I've actually done.

No one's pointing at you, but apparently you have a guilty conscience about something.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Every been tempted to just settle for one high-end guitar?

But from what I know of you, you would likely scoff at the idea of paying $500 for a guitar when there are G-400's and Epi Standards for $200. God forbid the idea that there could be anything better.

Ah, you know me so well. Perhaps you can tell me more about myself. I'm all ears.

 

[Luke Duke]

Re: Every been tempted to just settle for one high-end guitar?

Many factors. Mostly relating to the cost of high end guitars vs my salary.

Fair enough!

Just remember, Rome wasn't built in a day. You don't have to buy them all at once. I'm like Phil and, for the most part, have 1 high end guitar for every style I like. Now I am changing that...but it's worked well for me.

No one said you had to make the leap all at once. You could sell 3 or 4, add some cash, then buy 1 high end. Then you can wait a year, add some cash, then buy another high end guitar. I was talking to Christian the other day (TGWIF) and his boss, who also plays, went to his house and was blown away. Christian told him it was about 20 years in the making to get to that point. I had a buddy come over to get some strings and it was the first time he'd ever seen my guitar room and it was the same thing. I told him the same thing, it's been 16 years in the making.

The best advice I can give is to get a small notebook, and then go to every music store you can and play every different style body, every different radius, every different fret wire, every different body wood, and every different scale length. As you play each guitar write down what it is, every single thing you can find out about it, and what you do or don't like about it. You might even consider writing down the serial number to contact the company and ask specific questions. When you get home study your notes. As you get the body of notes together your ideal guitar should start to materialize in your mind.

It sounds like a lot of work but there's a lot of joy in the process. It took me forever before I finally learned my problem with most guitars was the tight radius. Had I made judicious notes I'd have known that long ago.

Hope that helps!

Luke

 

[Agileguy_101]

Re: Every been tempted to just settle for one high-end guitar?

Ah, you know me so well. Perhaps you can tell me more about myself. I'm all ears.

How many times need I say that it's my opinion? Once should suffice.

 

[Little Pigbacon]

Re: Every been tempted to just settle for one high-end guitar?

No one's pointing at you, but apparently you have a guilty conscience about something.

Yes. I have opinions.

 

[sosomething]

Re: Every been tempted to just settle for one high-end guitar?

Fair enough!

Just remember, Rome wasn't built in a day. You don't have to buy them all at once. I'm like Phil and, for the most part, have 1 high end guitar for every style I like. Now I am changing that...but it's worked well for me.

No one said you had to make the leap all at once. You could sell 3 or 4, add some cash, then buy 1 high end. Then you can wait a year, add some cash, then buy another high end guitar. I was talking to Christian the other day (TGWIF) and his boss, who also plays, went to his house and was blown away. Christian told him it was about 20 years in the making to get to that point. I had a buddy come over to get some strings and it was the first time he'd ever seen my guitar room and it was the same thing. I told him the same thing, it's been 16 years in the making.

The best advice I can give is to get a small notebook, and then go to every music store you can and play every different style body, every different radius, every different fret wire, every different body wood, and every different scale length. As you play each guitar write down what it is, every single thing you can find out about it, and what you do or don't like about it. You might even consider writing down the serial number to contact the company and ask specific questions. When you get home study your notes. As you get the body of notes together your ideal guitar should start to materialize in your mind.

It sounds like a lot of work but there's a lot of joy in the process. It took me forever before I finally learned my problem with most guitars was the tight radius. Had I made judicious notes I'd have known that long ago.

Hope that helps!

Luke

I think a lot of folks on this forum would do well to read & really think about what you're saying here.

People act like they can only afford the low-end stuff because they were born that way or something.

I don't have a wall of high-end guitars and multiple boutique amps because I'm rich. Not because I'm lucky either. I'm neither of those things. What I am is patient.

Delayed gratification > instant gratification.

ESPECIALLY when the end result is that you get something that is well above and beyond what you'd have ended up with otherwise.

If someone is happy with the low-end stuff, I make no judgments about it. None at all. I respect that. But when they turn around and accuse people with high-end stuff of being status-seeking or cork sniffers, it actually exposes a lot of insecurity on the part of the person saying it. And that same person could have gear they didn't need to feel insecure about (for whatever reason) if they'd been willing to employ a little patience and discipline.

There are lots of reasons to buy guitars at one price point or another, and none of them are any more valid than the rest. But when we start judging others who have made different choices than us, we say more about ourselves than we do about them.

 

[DreX]

Re: Every been tempted to just settle for one high-end guitar?

A big flaw with this thread is that it's not clear what high and low end guitars anyone is referring to. I think this is causing a lot of misunderstandings. Some low end guitars leave a lot to be desired and others dont, while some high end guitars simply aren't worth the price for the relatively small bump up in quality.

 

[DreX]

Re: Every been tempted to just settle for one high-end guitar?

The best advice I can give is to get a small notebook, and then go to every music store you can and play every different style body, every different radius, every different fret wire, every different body wood, and every different scale length. As you play each guitar write down what it is, every single thing you can find out about it, and what you do or don't like about it. You might even consider writing down the serial number to contact the company and ask specific questions. When you get home study your notes. As you get the body of notes together your ideal guitar should start to materialize in your mind.

But at the same time, years of personal discovery and even note taking might lead someone to the conclusion that cheaper priced guitars fit the bill for whatever reason, I dont think this lends itself to buying $1500+ guitars.

It's hard to state as a rule why that would or wouldn't happen, but as an example, I could afford a genuine late 70's Antigua Strat for $2500, and I have other $2,500 guitars, so I've breached that price point, but I went for the MIM Antigua Strat reissue instead ($600), for no one particular reason, there's pros and cons, and then personal preferences on top of it all. I bought a MIM Anitqua Tele too just because the price point was so attractive for what I was getting, so I'm knee deep in cheap, and I'm happy. Then again I turned down the MIM Tele Black Paisley because though it looks awesome, it was simply too cheesy. It's case by case, and it always should be.

 

[Luke Duke]

Re: Every been tempted to just settle for one high-end guitar?

But at the same time, years of personal discovery and even note taking might lead someone to the conclusion that cheaper priced guitars fit the bill for whatever reason, I dont think this lends itself to buying $1500+ guitars.

It's hard to state as a rule why that would or wouldn't happen, but as an example, I could afford a genuine late 70's Antigua Strat for $2500, and I have other $2,500 guitars, so I've breached that price point, but I went for the MIM Antigua Strat reissue instead ($600), for no one particular reason, there's pros and cons, and then personal preferences on top of it all. I bought a MIM Anitqua Tele too just because the price point was so attractive for what I was getting, so I'm knee deep in cheap, and I'm happy. Then again I turned down the MIM Tele Black Paisley because though it looks awesome, it was simply too cheesy. It's case by case, and it always should be.

Man I'm not really following you here.

This is applicable to any price point. The OP made a statement about commissioning an instrument....this process, I believe, would help really pare down all I the possibilities to a few specifics. In the process it might be that an R9 is THE guitar, or a San Dimas. That would have just been a happy accident. Additionally, I don't know what the OP really considers mid-priced to high-dollar or what all guitars he has at the house.

 

[DreX]

Re: Every been tempted to just settle for one high-end guitar?

The best guitars I've played have had better fretwork than lower-priced models, no dead spots on the fretboard, and a consistency in sound and feel from fret to fret and from string to string that is certainly possible down the food chain but is much less common. Also, when I play certain higher-end rock/metal guitars, there's a specific complexity in, say, chunking out an A power chord through a Marshall that seems just a little flatter and less multi-dimensional on most guitars. That little bit of extra crunch and resonance is very, very satisfying to me as a player.

The best guitars I've played have had better fretwork than lower-priced models, no dead spots on the fretboard, and a consistency in sound and feel from fret to fret and from string to string that is certainly possible down the food chain but is much less common. Also, when I play certain higher-end rock/metal guitars, there's a specific complexity in, say, chunking out an A power chord through a Marshall that seems just a little flatter and less multi-dimensional on most guitars. That little bit of extra crunch and resonance is very, very satisfying to me as a player.

I deal with Epiphones, MIM and MIJ Fenders mostly, but I haven't had any fret issues. I see evidence that less time and care is spent on the MIMs on average, but not a single usability problem. I'd agree that MIAs use more favorable woods on average, but how exactly it's more favorable is vague, better grain, a little denser for solids, ligher and more resonant for hallow bodies, but again, it's not a sure thing, and even then what makes a wood favorable is subjective.

I would add that pricier guitars have some or all of these additional qualities:

- made in america, you pay for higher labor costs

- have nicer finish work, you pay for the extra labor

- have alnico / more carefully made pickups, but who doesn't swap out the pickups?

- have quarter sized pots, I'm sorry but dime pots don't fail that often, don't have substantially inferior sweeps, and don't darken your tone

- use cloth wire, who gives a ****?

- have vintage tuners, vintage does not mean better

- have nicer tuners, even cheap tuners are rarely a source of tuning issues

- higher QC, which just means your odds of getting a dud are a little less if you spend $1000 more dollars.

 

[DreX]

Re: Every been tempted to just settle for one high-end guitar?

This is applicable to any price point. The OP made a statement about commissioning an instrument....this process, I believe, would help really pare down all I the possibilities to a few specifics.

OK I missed the context there.

I'll add another thing though, I think a person's preferences can be very flexible if they allow for it. To say that you prefer a certain scale, radius, weight, etc. is a choice you make, not a non-negotiable character trait. If you tell yourself that you like something, that prophecy will fulfill itself. If you say "I'm a Tele man, to the grave" and you only ever play Tele's, that miopic preference will never be challenged.

 

[Myaccount876]

Re: Every been tempted to just settle for one high-end guitar?

 

[Little Pigbacon]

Re: Every been tempted to just settle for one high-end guitar?

I deal with Epiphones, MIM and MIJ Fenders mostly, but I haven't had any fret issues. I see evidence that less time and care is spent on the MIMs on average, but not a single usability problem.

Freedom from major fret issues is something most decent guitars have these days, but that's not what I mean. There's more to being good than just not being bad, and when it comes to a really great fret job, there's a precision in how the fretted notes intonate and ring out. You can play dozens of entry- and mid-level guitars and be very happy with them; you won't notice the difference until you notice it.

I would add that pricier guitars have some or all of these additional qualities:

- made in america, you pay for higher labor costs

- have nicer finish work, you pay for the extra labor

Yes, that's the idea.

- have alnico / more carefully made pickups, but who doesn't swap out the pickups?

I never swapped out the pickups in any of my four favorite guitars that I've owned. It's always a matter of personal taste, but all of those guitars came with fully-baked pickup choices with no punches pulled -- including whatever was in that Focus 1000.

- have quarter sized pots, I'm sorry but dime pots don't fail that often, don't have substantially inferior sweeps, and don't darken your tone

I've experienced many more failures in the small pots than I have with full-size pots. As long as they work and are the value I want, fine. Otherwise, I replace them.

- use cloth wire, who gives a ****?

- have vintage tuners, vintage does not mean better

- have nicer tuners, even cheap tuners are rarely a source of tuning issues

Is that straw man putting up a good fight?

- higher QC, which just means your odds of getting a dud are a little less if you spend $1000 more dollars.

It means a lot more than that when we're talking about a completely different guitar built with different materials and techniques.

 

[DreX]

Re: Every been tempted to just settle for one high-end guitar?

Regarding a good fret job sounding better, I can't relate. I've bought MIA guitars with fine fret work, they don't sound special. I have sanded, recrowned and polished frets to perfection several times, always sounds the same.

Regarding paying more for "made in America" and nice finish, you say "Yes, that's the idea" but who cares where something is made? And a nice finish job doesn't make your guitar any easier to play. I don't think we're hypothetically considering trading five cheaper guitars for just one on account of aesthetic improvement.

On the topic of pickups, some people even like the ceramics. The fact that they are cheap to produce doesn't mean they sound bad, so if we call that preference and take it out of the quality column, that's one less differentiator for premium guitars.

I don't share your experience with the pots. I've had both dime and quarter sized pots get scratchy on me in equal parts, and both have been fixed with pot cleaner without even having to access the underside. All reports or failure associated with pots, or lack thereof, even my own, are anecdotal. I'm willing to bet a big reason cheap hardware fails is because people who buy cheap guitars are often novices who have not yet learned how to care for their instruments.

Tuners; many people feel a need to change tuners. If not to improve tuning, then why? I'm willing people wrongly accuse the tuners for what is the nut or saddle's fault, if not something else.

MIM Fender QC has improved a lot from what I hear, and speaking from direct experience with a rather large sample size to draw from, MIJ Fender QC is astonishing. I can't even find variation from one to the next. The electronic work under the hood is clean and meticulous, waaaaay better than MIM work.

The point of all this is that if someone claims their lower cost foreign made budget guitar is somehow holding them back in terms of technique, tone, or just in terms of player satisfaction, there's a 99% probability the real problem is somewhere between their chair and keyboard.

 

[Little Pigbacon]

Re: Every been tempted to just settle for one high-end guitar?

It sounds like you've got everything figured out. Enjoy.

 

[Silver]

Re: Every been tempted to just settle for one high-end guitar?

I think a lot of folks on this forum would do well to read & really think about what you're saying here.

People act like they can only afford the low-end stuff because they were born that way or something.

I don't have a wall of high-end guitars and multiple boutique amps because I'm rich. Not because I'm lucky either. I'm neither of those things. What I am is patient.

Delayed gratification > instant gratification.

ESPECIALLY when the end result is that you get something that is well above and beyond what you'd have ended up with otherwise.

If someone is happy with the low-end stuff, I make no judgments about it. None at all. I respect that. But when they turn around and accuse people with high-end stuff of being status-seeking or cork sniffers, it actually exposes a lot of insecurity on the part of the person saying it. And that same person could have gear they didn't need to feel insecure about (for whatever reason) if they'd been willing to employ a little patience and discipline.

There are lots of reasons to buy guitars at one price point or another, and none of them are any more valid than the rest. But when we start judging others who have made different choices than us, we say more about ourselves than we do about them.

I'm not sure I agree with this.

In theory, I could drive a Ferrari if only I was patient and saved up the money for one and the associated insurance and fuel costs. But given my economic position, it would not be sensible for me.

Things have to be proportional, you know? Like if I live in a $150,000 house, and drive a $10,000 car, it seems silly to have $30,000 worth of high end guitars. People have more than just guitars to spend their money on. I could probably manage $3000-4000 on a high end guitar if I saved up for a long while, but that would have to be it for me. The wife would veto any more major guitar purchases on the grounds that the house needs work, the car will need upgrading, she wants more vacations, etc.

It's the reason I drive a Toyota instead of a Ferrari! haha!

I think this is why people have a collection of low-mid priced guitars. Because it just isn't sensible or practical for people to own several high end guitars given the money they earn.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Every been tempted to just settle for one high-end guitar?

1) Delayed gratification > instant gratification. ESPECIALLY when the end result is that you get something that is well above and beyond what you'd have ended up with otherwise.

2) If someone is happy with the low-end stuff, I make no judgments about it. None at all. I respect that. But when they turn around and accuse people with high-end stuff of being status-seeking or cork sniffers, it actually exposes a lot of insecurity on the part of the person saying it. And that same person could have gear they didn't need to feel insecure about (for whatever reason) if they'd been willing to employ a little patience and discipline.

1) Well, you need something to play in the meantime while you're saving up money for high-end gear, and for some people that can take years, especially if they're supporting a family. For a lot of people, high-end gear will probably be out of their reach for a long time. Too many other priorities in life.

2) The only time I speak up about high-end gear, is when a few members call everything else 'crap' and unworthy. I don't care what someone spends on a guitar, they're paying for it, not me. But when they feel they have to justify their purcahse by trashing more affordable guitars, then that crosses a line and needs to be addressed. As many people here have found out from personal experience, not every high-end guitar is sounds great or necessarily made that well. Likewise there are some mid-priced imports that are pretty good, especially with the highly competitive market these days. Buy what you want, but don't put down what other people buy as garbage. No matter what you spend, it's what you do with it that counts. Time spent playing & practicing does more for you than anything else.

In the blues world there's a number of touring/recording bands that use mid-priced guitars (Epiphones, Deans, etc) and some of them are great players. Obviously those instruments aren't holding them back. The bottom line is that what people spend on a guitar is a personal decison, often dictated by their financial, job, and family situations, and while 'nice' to own, it's not required to play or sound good.

 

[LesStrat]

Re: Every been tempted to just settle for one high-end guitar?

Jessie is correct. There is a price point at which most of the work is correct and consistent.

I own two Parker Fly guitars. Not because I'm wealthy and have large amounts of disposable income. In fact, my total investment into both is less that the "door" price for one.

As Luke suggested, I was patient. Good deals DO come along.

I own a mid-priced guitar that speaks to me. I love playing that guitar and will use it in church this morning.

BUT, it has some inconsistencies that can be problematic. Those inconsistencies are nonexistent with the Parkers.

 

[Dr. Vegetable]

Re: Every been tempted to just settle for one high-end guitar?

I am a big proponent of the value of low- to mid-range guitars. There is definitely a law of diminishing returns when it comes to paying more for an instrument.

But I was in a store recently and spent awhile playing a Taylor T5. Now I have a couple of T5 clones that I happen to enjoy very much - they are some of my best playing guitars, and each cost me literally 1/10th the price of an actual T5. Well the Taylor was simply phenomenal. Very nice sound, great feel all the way up the neck, and beautiful. In that short time, I could tell that this guitar was noticeably better than the clones in every way. A marginal improvement, to be sure, but it was there and I could hear it in my playing.

There is no guarantee that paying 10X for a guitar will get you even a 10% improvement in quality. In fact, I have almost never experienced that "wow" factor from any high-end guitar. For most bedroom/barroom players, the marginal improvement probably isn't worth the premium. But I can also see how that slight improvement could be the make/break difference for a developing artist.

I have never felt that my budget instruments & equipment are holding me back, but I never really went anywhere to begin with.