Every time I shop by feel and tone only

[Gearjoneser]

To begin, my favorite guitars are Fender, Gibson, and Martin, and anything a fan of that holy trinity would consider.

That conclusion wasn't found by fashion or what everyone plays by default. It's because I've gone through everything, and like many purists, naturally end there.

About once every two months, I hit all the LA music stores. I put my hands and ears on hundreds of the hippest name brands and boutiques, from $1000 - $25,000.

Out of all of them, I find myself gravitating toward Nash clones of the best vintage Fenders. I don't even naturally gravitate toward reliced guitars, but Nash just makes my favorite instruments. I think he just sources necks and bodies, then assembles them, but his formula feels so much better than Fender CS, and tops out around $2100, not ridiculous Fender prices.

The Hollywood Mesa store stocks a lot of them. When I go in there, I don't even notice the amps. Their Anderson guitars are amazing and pretty to look at, but the Nash teles and strats are consistently the guitars that get my heart racing, over everything else on Sunset Blvd. guitar row.

I think the formula is thin finish that breathes, light wood, slightly fatter necks with oil finish, vintage hardware, great pickups, and nicely setup with a worn in feel.

One of these days I'm going to sell off some stuff and own a Nash strat and tele.

 

[stratguy23]

Re: Every time I shop by feel and tone only

I know what you mean, and I look for a lot of the same things in a guitar. Maybe I should pay more attention to the guitars in the Mesa store. The few Tom Andersons I've played have all been great, functionally and technically perfect instruments, but I haven't felt much vibe from them.

The make I most consistently enjoy is Gibson, mostly because of the things you listed - thinner finishes, fatter necks, vintage vibe. I just wish Gibsons weren't so fragile and full of design flaws. Also I'm not that interested in supporting a make with the current management.

I recently played a 62 reissue Strat that I really should have brought home. It needed better pickups and a setup, but it had so much vibe. Some guitars just keep you awake at night, and this was one.

 

[Johnny the Kid]

Re: Every time I shop by feel and tone only

I very widely in electric guitars. I love Gibson. I love Schecter. Ibanez has been making some great stuff. I'm considering a Kiesel for a custom build.

Acoustics, I do not like Taylors. They sound way too bright for me. If I was in a band I could see them working well in a mix but I usually perform by myself when I play acoustically in which case I love Martins because they just sound massive and thick and warm. Great for solo stuff.

 

[Boogie Bill]

Re: Every time I shop by feel and tone only

I've owned a Leo Fender designed guitar since shortly after learning to play in 1965 until today...be it a Fender, original Music Man or G&L. I now play G&L, and still have my Music Man Sabre IIs, but these days there's very little coming out of Fender that I dream of owning. My MIJ Precision Lyte bass is my only instrument with "Fender" on the headstock.

And...it was surprising for me to realize that I've also owned a Gibson of one kind or another since 1973.

I definitely prefer Martin dreads. Somehow I've collected 11 of these beautiful guitars. They bring such joy. My first was bought in 1973, a D-18, now gone but I still have my 1975 D-28 and it's as smooth as 40-year old single malt can be. Everything else is 2002 and newer...and I love the quality of these new Martins. I do have a Taylor 710CE and it's probably the most perfect of all my guitars. I've played it out a lot since 2003, but it's a drier tone. The Martins are comfy mocs, a worn flannel shirt and jeans washed 1,000 times.

I've also got a cool Ibanez Artwood dread that sounds better than it should at it's price point. And my Takamine 12-string dreads are really cool and just loaded with value. I like Ibanez; I've got a couple of GR-520s that I hung unto before I could afford a Les Paul, and an Artstar AS-120 that sounds as good as my 335s, and that's the truth. Not much interest in their pointy shred-sticks, though. The banjo I have is also an Ibanez from 1975, an Artist 5-string.

I have a really nice collection, 61 guitars, which is five too many and 10 not enough. I've been playing for 50 years now; I've gone through a lot of guitars and I've learned what works for me and the features I like. It is a great collection for sure, and I'm very happy to have them. I feel very blessed.

Ditto with my amps. I bought my first Mesa Mark III around 1995, and that ended the amp search. I've collected nine since then, and I am comfortable with any of them. When I hit financial trouble after 9/11, I hung on to the two Mesas I had and sold my JCM 800 and my vintage BF Fenders. The Mesas had the sounds I had in my head.

And comfort is a factor with the G&Ls. I owned a vintage Strat, and the G&L Legacy address all the issues I had with that old Strat, in a way that modernizes it yet retains that vintage feel. I just love them.

And I have played some boutique "Fender" guitars like Nash, Anderson, Grosh, and DiTemple. (Fender Custom Shop can do amazing things!) And they are all great. And three to four times the cost of a G&L. Thanks, but...no.

Bill

 

[Dahla]

Re: Every time I shop by feel and tone only

I'm considering a Kiesel for a custom build.

...

Tip of the day: do your research before considering Kiesel.


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[Gearjoneser]

Re: Every time I shop by feel and tone only

Bill - besides Nash and Fender CS, DeTemple Fender replicas are the best ones I've played. I still kick myself for not buying a white/rosewood Fender Road Worn strat Michael DeTemple overhauled for $750. He turned that guitar into a gem, complete with his pickups. I played that one at Canoga Park Sam Ash two years ago.

I still think my good Gibsons plus a bunch of Nash guitars would leave me satisfied completely.

Today, Sam Ash Hollywood let me play the two best Taylors...$8K and $5K....the new ones with arm contoured bodies. Good lord, they were nice!

 

[orpheo]

Re: Every time I shop by feel and tone only

I tried well... thousands of guitars. I gravitate towards the same recipe:

solid woods, especially in acoustic guitars. Solid simply sounds richer, deeper.

Resonance. This is not a factor of weight but of quality. A heavy guitar can resonate just as well as a lightweight guitar. The tone is just different.

Natural nut (and saddle) versus manmade. Sorry: bone just beats 'TUSQ', hands down.

Thin finish. A thicker finish will dampen the tone way too much. I also now understand why. The amplitude of the body, when playing, is in the same order of magnitude as the thickness of a regular finish. That's why a thicker finish will dampen the tone so badly. OH, and thick finish =/= poor level of gloss.

Direct mounting of pickups. I hate to admit it, but I do find that direct mounting the pickups makes a hell of a lot of difference.

That, plus of course proper timber selection makes the world a difference. I don't know why the big corps are having such a bad time and making such poor decisions when selecting their timber. Some big ones are getting great woods, others select simple junk. yes, good wood is a bit more expensive. But that's the difference between 400 bucks of profit versus 300. Cheap jerks.

 

[Johnny the Kid]

Re: Every time I shop by feel and tone only

...

Tip of the day: do your research before considering Kiesel.


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I have. I've heard some horror stories. But I've also heard tons of other great stuff about them and they seem to be putting out some high quality stuff.

 

[d1dsj]

Re: Every time I shop by feel and tone only

The guy I bought my Tyler from had a Sherwood Green Nash build, a '62 I think. Now obviously I was trying to grab the Tyler and run but I have to say that Nash was pretty damn sweet. The guy said to me that whilst he loved both, he had got past the hot rodded Strat stage and just wanted a good old school type guitar.... and that's what he had. His was only very light relic work, but felt very well played in and looked old.

The guy I bought my Dubrieulle Tele off had just sold a natural Nash, also a '62 for a mega bargain price... I would have grabbed both in a heartbeat but I was literally an hour too late!

 

[Diego]

Re: Every time I shop by feel and tone only

As time goes by, I'm realizing more and more that traditional designs are what suit me the best.

I cannot imagine not owning a SSS Strat. I've always had one at my disposal since I began playing, and they're my go-to guitar half of the time.
As you might know, I recently bought my first Les Paul and I should have bought it many years ago. They just have that thick, rich sound and I cannot put mine down these days.
I'm lacking a Telecaster but it's not something that bothers me, really.
My Ibanez SZ is a PRS design basically with minor tweaks, and it sounds like a PRS. Kinda like my Les Paul, with a lot more spank and less thump. Awesome for a tight sound with a fast attack.

I've had a Prestige Ibanez, a early-2000s MIJ Jackson, and I currently have a cheapo MIC Kelly that I'm still trying to fit in my arsenal somehow.
It's a fun guitar, but my bases are covered with my main three guitars and I don't see myself straying too far away from the Strat/Les Paul/PRS route.

 

[Demanic]

Re: Every time I shop by feel and tone only

I find that I'm drawn to pointy guitars.

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[PFDarkside]

Re: Every time I shop by feel and tone only

I don't know if you fancy yourself an builder or not, but the recipe for Nash is (or at least was for a long time) a Warmoth body, Allparts neck, Lollar (dirty blonde) and nitro.

If you wanted to replicate it, you can choose a nice resonant body and neck of your exact specs (profile, frets, etc.), pickups and send them to MJT for a very affordable thin nitro finish. MJT has a good enough reputation now that you can actually sell them as if they were branded guitars unlike other partscasters.

Just a thought if you are interested.

 

[Diego]

Re: Every time I shop by feel and tone only

Slight derailment, but what's your go-to SSS pickup set? I'd love to own a Strat like that at some point.

I feel bad for this, but it's a Toneriders Pure Vintage set. Low output and very 50s like.

I'm not a purist, they came in the guitar when I bought it and I loved them.

 

[Mincer]

Re: Every time I shop by feel and tone only

I look for ergonomics, balance, & weight. I started off playing Strats, so the Music Mans I mostly play now are a refinement on that idea. It isn't that I won't consider other designs (I play Steinbergers too), but they have to have something really special going on.

 

[Farkus]

Re: Every time I shop by feel and tone only

For a player feel and tone are the only real considerations...well besides price! I guess you are lucky that you like Fender, Gibson and Martins because they are great for players and collectors.

I have tried many different guitars over time...I gravitate back to Strats every time. They just sound "right" to me. I keep a H-H strat around for that need, I have some with stack pickups and a couple with Fender EJ pickups in them. I have not tried many boutique Strat copies but really enjoyed a Music Man I tried a couple of months ago and it's still on my mind. I'm waiting on Fender to make a Strat with my '74 Strat's neck shape and my 2002 Ash Strat's weight and tone. LOL.

 

[stevie_bees]

Re: Every time I shop by feel and tone only

I tried a couple of Nash Strats when I was looking for my 'RAF Retirement' guitar. Really superb to play, and just had that great old Strat vibe. Unfortunately they were out of my price range, but I'd still like to have one some day.

 

[NjuiMusic]

Re: Every time I shop by feel and tone only

...

Tip of the day: do your research before considering Kiesel.


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I mean, my Kiesel is great. So idk.

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[DavidRavenMoon]

Every time I shop by feel and tone only

Finish, and wood, don't breathe. Finish does not effect the tone of an electric guitar at all. Not one tiny bit. Finish is to mostly stop the wood from absorbing moisture. That's about it.

But a light weight body will.

Personally I like any guitar with a neck I find comfortable. I usually change the pickups with pickups I wind. I prefer the tone and feel of 25.5" scale lengths. But I had a nice LP years ago.

My current favorite guitar (besides the ones I built) is my Parker P-38. [emoji3]


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[vinta9e]

Re: Every time I shop by feel and tone only

Finish, and wood, don't breathe.

That's a statement of fact.

Finish does not effect the tone of an electric guitar at all.

That, however, is a statement of opinion. It should also spell "affect", actually.

Subtleties...

 

[DavidRavenMoon]

Every time I shop by feel and tone only

That's a statement of fact.


That, however, is a statement of opinion. It should also spell "affect", actually.

Subtleties...

You need to research what you are talking about. I'm stating facts. Wood is dead. It doesn't breathe. Finish, even nitrocellulose, is a thin film of plastic. It does not breathe either.

I'm a luthier. Are you? I've listened to instruments before and after finish. There's no difference in tone. And there's no way there can be.

If you think finish effects (you can use that form of the word in this context) tone, then explain, in detail, how that's possible. What's the mechanism behind this effect (the only correct form).

There isn't any. The usual incorrect assumption is that somehow the finish stops the wood from vibrating. That's ridiculous. The mass of the body far exceeds that of the finish, and in fact if they are vibrating at all, they do it together. Same with glue lines.

But on a solid body the last thing you want is the body absorbing energy from the strings. This is why solid bodies have greater sustain.

Also if you want to talk finish, lots of old Fenders are dipped in Fullerplast, which is a two-part polyester sealer. No one complains about the tone of old Strats!


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