Expensive mic pre question

[75lespaul]

Is it worth it for me to upgrade my mic pre? Here's my equipment:

MXL V69ME NOS Mullard 12AT7
MXL V63M
AKG C1000S
AKG C3000B
Shure SM57
Shure SM58
Tascam FW-1804 firewire interface
Presonus Tubepre w/JJ ECC81 tube
Studio Projects VTB-1 mic pre w/JJ ECC81 tube
Sonar 5

Within the past two months I got the Tascam and V69ME along with my Vox AD60VTX and Earcandy 2X12 so I've spent some dough this year. The big question--I want to try the Groove Tubes Brick, but at $399, that's a big upgrade and obviously selling my two current preamps will not make a dent in the $800 I'd spend on two Bricks (I sell stuff to buy stuff, lol). Am I really going to notice that big a difference in sound or will it be subtle? I'm willing to blow the loot if the difference is going to be "WOW, holy $&%^" but not for "hey--sounds a little better!" The tube change in the mic pres and MXL mic were a really big improvement in sound and the Brick is supposedly the only "real" low cost mic preamp that is a true class A pre.

I will certainly be beaten to near death by my ball and chain if I make this purchase so I'd like to make sure before I go ahead. For some reason, the stores by me don't carry the Brick so I can't go listen for myself. Another much cheaper option would be the ART MPA Gold which is $299 and is a two pre in one box piece that has also gotten rave reviews from engineers (not the typical harmony-central rants). Again, would the sound difference be that much better.

Thanks guys. Hope all your holidays have been great so far.

 

[vinterland]

Re: Expensive mic pre question

I will say this, the ART MPA series stuff is suprisingly great for its price.

I don't like the presonus tube pre.

I like the vtb-1.

I don't think the ART would outshine the vtb necessarily but it would the presonus. Its all just my opinion though! You could always get the ART or the brick and if you liked it you could sell your other two pre's and basically make up the cost somewhat.

 

[75lespaul]

Re: Expensive mic pre question

I wasn't too crazy about the Presonus at first either but I changed the tube yesterday in that, the VTB-1 and the MXL mic and they all sounded much better. Now I like the Presonus. Still though, gotta find out if the Brick or the ART is going to give me the WOW effect or not. I'm more worried about the Brick because that's $800 spent compared to $300. I'll probably get between $100 to $150 combined for the two pres I have now so the ART would be the easy score. I REALLY like the reviews on that Brick though.

 

[TheArchitect]

Re: Expensive mic pre question

Well, I can't tell you how much difference you will here, but I bought a pair of bricks and found the difference to be quite amazing and unexpected. Keep this in mind. Assuming everything works, the absolute difference between something like a $100 presonus unit and a top shelf Avalon, Sebatron or Neve clone will be relatively small. But multiply that by 20-30 tracks and you will find a significant difference. The Brick is much closer to the Avalons than it is any $100 unit.

In short, I highly recommend "The Brick". I own them and fine them to be pretty sweet sounding. Will you fall over yourself in the difference you will hear? That depends on your engineering chops, what level the current gear is and how fine tuned your is ear is.

 

[75lespaul]

Re: Expensive mic pre question

Well, I can't tell you how much difference you will here, but I bought a pair of bricks and found the difference to be quite amazing and unexpected. Keep this in mind. Assuming everything works, the absolute difference between something like a $100 presonus unit and a top shelf Avalon, Sebatron or Neve clone will be relatively small. But multiply that by 20-30 tracks and you will find a significant difference. The Brick is much closer to the Avalons than it is any $100 unit.

In short, I highly recommend "The Brick". I own them and fine them to be pretty sweet sounding. Will you fall over yourself in the difference you will hear? That depends on your engineering chops, what level the current gear is and how fine tuned your is ear is.

That was an excellent way to describe things. I didn't think about the snowball effect on the whole mix if there are lotsa tracks. I could get up around 20 or more with some things.

Let's see--my engineering chops? I suck, LOL. I think my gear is good, but I don't know if it's good enough that the extra dough for the better pre will matter. My ear is pretty good. What I may do is buy just one brick to see if I like it, and I'll get the ART from the local music store, then compare all four and see what the best pre or mix of pres will be for me. Unfortunately the only Bricks I can buy are off of ebay, which I hate to do with electronics.

Thanks man.

 

[Robert S.]

Re: Expensive mic pre question

The Aphex 207 dual channel tube mic pre is probably cheaper than two bricks and I avoid most of the A.R.T. stuff anymore.

The Aphex 207 sounds better than the FocusRite Preamp in my Digi 002, which is saying something.

 

[75lespaul]

Re: Expensive mic pre question

As a rule, I stay away from ART myself but the reviews the gold mpa is getting are hard to ignore. Again, these are not Harmony-Central or MF reviews but stuff on the the web from "professionals" whose job it is to review these items. Trying it out can't hurt but of course now you know I have to check out the Aphex stuff too :laugh2: :smoker:

 

[75lespaul]

Re: Expensive mic pre question

I caved and got two bricks. I made an offer on ebay for two for $620 shipped and it was accepted. I didn't think I'd get a $180 discount, but they accepted my "submit best offer". Certified dealer with over 5000 feedback and really good feedback as well.

My wife almost swallowed her tongue when I told her and she was like "are you sure this is your LAST gear purchase for awhile????" and I was like, yeah it is--oh wait no, the brobuckers I want too!"

I rationalized the whole thing by telling her, (1): I sell things to completely or partially cover the cost of new items and (2): I'm 42 years old, and if buying some music stuff is my midlife crisis, then go with it. It's a LOT cheaper than the Plasma screen TV and Lexus my friend bought while they're saving to buy a house. She saw my point, hee hee. Didn't like it, but saw it.

 

[TheArchitect]

Re: Expensive mic pre question

I caved and got two bricks. I made an offer on ebay for two for $620 shipped and it was accepted. I didn't think I'd get a $180 discount, but they accepted my "submit best offer". Certified dealer with over 5000 feedback and really good feedback as well.

My wife almost swallowed her tongue when I told her and she was like "are you sure this is your LAST gear purchase for awhile????" and I was like, yeah it is--oh wait no, the brobuckers I want too!"

I rationalized the whole thing by telling her, (1): I sell things to completely or partially cover the cost of new items and (2): I'm 42 years old, and if buying some music stuff is my midlife crisis, then go with it. It's a LOT cheaper than the Plasma screen TV and Lexus my friend bought while they're saving to buy a house. She saw my point, hee hee. Didn't like it, but saw it.

$620 shipped for new units is a very good price. Give yourself some time to get used to them. The biggest difference a great pre makes is usually in the low end. The beefier power supplies allow them to fully capture those frequencies cleanly without losing the transients. I think you will like them.

 

[75lespaul]

Re: Expensive mic pre question

$620 shipped for new units is a very good price. Give yourself some time to get used to them. The biggest difference a great pre makes is usually in the low end. The beefier power supplies allow them to fully capture those frequencies cleanly without losing the transients. I think you will like them.

I'm just worried a little about the low db output on the Brick for low volume stuff. I made the offer thinking that if I didn't like them, I probably wouldn't lose much if any money when I sold them. I never thought they would accept that offer! I'm going to try a Brick against the VTB-1, record about 20 tracks with each and see if I can notice a difference. If not, then I know that the Bricks I got are overkill and I'll sell them. If the Brick does the trick (lol) then I'll try the ART next using the same test. Process of elimination will hopefully save me a good buck as I'll sell the losers of my tests.

 

[TheArchitect]

Re: Expensive mic pre question

Low output? I don't think that will be a problem. Most guys have issues with them having too much output on higher volume items like drumkits

 

[Robert S.]

Re: Expensive mic pre question

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=home/search/detail/base_pid/181824/

The Aphex stuff is still worth checking out.

 

[75lespaul]

Re: Expensive mic pre question

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=home/search/detail/base_pid/181824/

The Aphex stuff is still worth checking out.

That I will my friend, that I will. I'm going to go to the local GC and see if they can set something up in the house that will let me check out the Aphex and Art stuff.

 

[J Moose]

Re: Expensive mic pre question

As a rule, I stay away from ART myself but the reviews the gold mpa is getting are hard to ignore. Again, these are not Harmony-Central or MF reviews but stuff on the the web from "professionals" whose job it is to review these items.

Key words there are "professionals whose job it is to review" rather then someone who's actually makin' records with the stuff. The ART stuff...well...it's a toy at best. Glad to hear 'ya ended up with the Bricks. They should keep 'ya going for a long long time, to move "upwards" from there you'd need to spend like $1K a channel or more.

 

[75lespaul]

Re: Expensive mic pre question

Key words there are "professionals whose job it is to review" rather then someone who's actually makin' records with the stuff. The ART stuff...well...it's a toy at best. Glad to hear 'ya ended up with the Bricks. They should keep 'ya going for a long long time, to move "upwards" from there you'd need to spend like $1K a channel or more.

And 1K per channel would be cool if I could afford the extra rent I'd have to pay when the ball & chain kicks me out :laugh2:

Got the Bricks today. Hopefully I'll get to fire them up Saturday. I'm a gasser, but I'm in the middle of selling a house and starting a business. I'm also tearing into a few DVDs about mixing and how to run Sonar. I'm sick of not knowing what I'm doing when it comes to recording.

Thanks Bro--I've got the feeling from everybody's responses that the Bricks were the way to go. :smoker:

 

[75lespaul]

Re: Expensive mic pre question

Fired up the Groove Tubes Bricks today. They sound fantastic. Nice & clean and POWERFUL. The only problem I'm having is that using a condensor mic, I have the input on the interface all the way down, the knob on the brick all the way down, and the mike is 15 feet away from the amp and STILL overloads the inputs. I don't know what's up. I put the SM57 through the other brick and that's fine, but the three condensors all peak the meters with everything all the way down. Wild, huh? The sound recorded is very close to digital distortion, which sounds terrible. Sometimes it does clip, but I've gotta learn some more recording do's & don'ts as I go along.