Fender Blues Junior vs Silverface Champ

[Rich_S]

Here's a variation on drjones' thread.

I tried out for the band at our new church last weekend. It's a fairly small church (seats maybe 250) and the volume requirements are low. This past Sunday, they had 2 acoustics, 2 singers, accordian, bass, and drums (unmiked) and it was plenty loud. (Funny thing: I don't even know what kind of PA they were using - it's so small I couldn't even see it. But I will soon know everything about the PA - I'm the pastor's new audio engineering consultant.)

But back to the topic. The first thing I noticed during the rehearsal is that even my bitty 13-Watt Marshall clone is overqualified. I had the MASS turned down almost as low as it would go.

That got me thinking: I happen to know of a silverface Champ that's been sitting on a showroom floor for a long time. It will probably have enough power for this gig. I also think Fenders are better suited to the type of music being played (Marshalls are the Devil's amp, Fenders are God's amp, right?)

But if we extend the thinking that "Fender clean" is better suited to the music/venue, then will a Champ be enough? I also have a friend with a BJr that's been sitting around. But does a BJr really do "Fender clean" at all, or is it just an EL84 approximation? Keep in mind I already have my Marshall clone with two EL84's.

Discuss.

 

[sublimerules9604]

Re: Fender Blues Junior vs Silverface Champ

That is the exact setup for my blues jr. It playes in a church with 250 people miked through our PA. As for the "fender cleans" im not sure since this is the only fender amp ive ever played.

 

[DesertRose]

Re: Fender Blues Junior vs Silverface Champ

I tried a modded blues Jr and a 70s champ amp. The blues jr sound better than the champ in actual fact. I don't know because the blues jr had new speakers and some other stuff added. Both are single channel amps but the blues Jr comes with a FAT channel also.

 

[Rich_S]

Re: Fender Blues Junior vs Silverface Champ

Bump before bedtime. C'mon - there must be others out there who have played both these amps.

 

[Fresh_Start]

Re: Fender Blues Junior vs Silverface Champ

Blues Jr. was my first amp. Tweed Princeton/Harvard DIY is my newest toy - not exactly the same as the AA764 circuit in the later Champs but close.

If you want clean, then I would think the Blues Jr. would be a much better choice. 12" speaker vs. 8" speaker for starters. A Weber California would be a great speaker for cleans w/ that amp. Reverb isn't great, but the Champ doesn't have any. The Champ won't have anywhere near the clean headroom of the Blues Jr.

Is it the classic "Fender clean" though? Not exactly, if you're hearing a Blackface Deluxe Reverb or BF Princeton in your head. With the right choice of tubes and replacement speaker (stock one is flabby, etc.), the Blues Jr. could get you in the general area. YMMV.

Chip

 

[Guitar Toad]

Re: Fender Blues Junior vs Silverface Champ

Bump for Rich...

 

[Smilemon]

Re: Fender Blues Junior vs Silverface Champ

Well, i have experience with the blues Jr, and i have a pro Jr. They would be the right size for that gig, the BJ has a good fat clean tone.

 

[bungalowbill]

Re: Fender Blues Junior vs Silverface Champ

Rich, the BJR doesn't have the trademark Fender clean, But it is a good clean tone and higher headroom than the Champ. I would take that 18 watter to GC and compare, that would be the best way to tell.

 

[Skarekrough]

Re: Fender Blues Junior vs Silverface Champ

The Blues Junior, especially with the Billm mods is likely to be more versatile for you. The range I have with mine when there's a few pedals involved is pretty broad.

The Champ, well, it's that specific Fender sound. Mine's a Tweed 54' and it sounds exactly like an old Tweed Champ is supposed to...for better or for worse. If I want it to sound like something else, not going to happen. But what it does it does wonderfully.

 

[tubeman87]

Re: Fender Blues Junior vs Silverface Champ

I've played both the Blues Junior and a Sliverface Champ and even the throw it into the mix a Vibrochamp. Vibrochamps and Silverface Champs are like a dime a dozen here in San Antonio for some reason. As far as the volume the Blues Junior is going to be louder of course but the Champ and Vibrochamps has more of a Fender sound to them, its hard to explain but there is a definate tone difference between vintage fenders (Mid 70's and older) than the more recent Fender Amps. The champ sound like a true blue fender and it overdives very nicely @ 6-8 watts its easy to push with out getting annoying. The Blues Junior sounds good but it doesn't have that "spark" that vintage Fender's do. So take what you will from this post and let your ears make the call!

 

[Rich_S]

Re: Fender Blues Junior vs Silverface Champ

I think I'm going to go try a silverface Champ at lunchtime today. I think it will be loud enough for this particular band, and I'd love to have an amp I can just leave at the church all the time.

Vibrochamps and Silverface Champs are like a dime a dozen here in San Antonio for some reason.

That clinches it - I'll PayPal you a dime. Send me a nice VibroChamp and keep the change. Down here, they're more like the eBay-approved $250-$350.

 

[Luke Duke]

Re: Fender Blues Junior vs Silverface Champ

I'm going to say that the SF champ would be a good choice. They have a better clean tone, IMO, and you can get the volume up pretty good to get that rounded out sound you only get when the power tubes are burning good.

Also I can't help but think that, being you are an EE, the champ makes a great platform for you to use to eek out some different tones with some component value tweaks. Also you can put a new baffle in and a 10 in speaker for a tone that is more rounded still and some more volume.

Luke

 

[Rich_S]

Re: Fender Blues Junior vs Silverface Champ

You're a man after my own heart. I was already wondering how big a speaker I can cram in there. Probably not a 12, but I wonder if Ted Weber has a 10 that's "close enough" to the G12H30?:laughing:

I was also thinking that a SF/Tweed switch wouldn't be too hard to install. Dave Hunter did a great job comparing and contrasting the various versions of the Champ in his book, the component value changes aren't hard as long as you conveniently avoid the choke/no choke issue.

 

[Luke Duke]

Re: Fender Blues Junior vs Silverface Champ

You're a man after my own heart. I was already wondering how big a speaker I can cram in there. Probably not a 12, but I wonder if Ted Weber has a 10 that's "close enough" to the G12H30?:laughing:

I was also thinking that a SF/Tweed switch wouldn't be too hard to install. Dave Hunter did a great job comparing and contrasting the various versions of the Champ in his book, the component value changes aren't hard as long as you conveniently avoid the choke/no choke issue.

You can get an 8 in Alnico Blue Pup for 35 bucks I know that!! For the 10s I don't know for sure The mids resistor is the big one that guys like Torres replace right off the bat.

Is it a vibro champ or regular champ? If you want more gain, because 2 triodes isn't a lot to work with, in one of the inputs (being you'd have 2) you could pick up a turbo jax. www.missionamps.com Then you could run the amp as a 2 channel with an A/B box theoretically.

The probelm you run into with speakers in a champ is the magnet and the TF. The cabs are pretty stinkin small.

All that said I really dig BF and SF champs and wish Fender would bring back the Champ II's and Super Champs.

Luke

 

[Rich_S]

Re: Fender Blues Junior vs Silverface Champ

Well, I done did it. I went and played the SF Champ I had in mind. It's a Vibrochamp, from, what? '67? '68? It has the aluminum trim around the speaker grill.

It was sweet. It's surprising how well such a little amp does "Fender clean" - you'd expect no headroom at all. Above 8 on the volume control it gets a bit farty, but if I want crunch, I have my baby "Marshall". It's tagged at $350, but it's been there a while, so I bet I can get it for $325.

 

[Luke Duke]

Re: Fender Blues Junior vs Silverface Champ

Check your email that's on your profile.


BTW your automated reply sucks!

Luke