Fender CS Fat Nocaster- Pickup Balance

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Charente

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Hello all. Newbie here.

Please don't take this as a gripe. Just looking for advice to make a great guitar even better.

A few years ago I got a good deal on a 20O7 Fender custom shop Fat Nocaster relic that was new but had been unsold and must have been hanging around with the distributor. Specs are 7 1/2 radius, vintage frets, Nocaster bridge pup and a Duncan '59 at the neck.

Lightweight, very resonant and a surprisingly comfortable baseball bat for a neck. In other words all good.

Problem is the mismatch between the bridge and neck pups. A volume imbalance is to be expected (and actually works to give a very usable beefed up mid position) but the tone imbalance is too extreme to be workable no matter what I do EQ wise. Using my normal amp setting the bridge is as expected but the neck '59 is just mud - not what you want from a pickup known for its clarity.

I've dropped the '59 (which I tend to do with buckers anyway) and raised the bass side screw polepieces which helps a little and I could take them out altogether effectively leaving a single coil.

The case candy did contain a wiring diagram and spare cap for swapping from vintage spec Tele wiring but previous experience suggests that Fender case candy doesn't necessarily match the actual model its shipped with. The familiar but beefier middle position tone suggests standard Tele wiring rather than the bass/neck/bridge setup of vintage spec. PS I tried to query the shipped specs with Fender but got no reply.

OK - I could re-EQ my amps which is a pain when swapping guitars or swap out the pots for 5OOK. But both approaches just shift the EQ curve and the imbalance remains which would mean dialling back the tone every time I switch to the bridge. I also considered fitting a bucker sized P90 which should in theory work a little better with the 250k pots.

Thing is - I appreciate the attention to vintage detail (which is why I went for the vintage neck specs) and I'm sure this is how they were modded back in the day. But you would have expected the custom shop to offer some sort of clever mod - a high pass filter between the '59 and the pot perhaps?

Its very much a keeper by the way - the bridge Nocaster is a good enough tone on its own. Just as I said it could be better.

So any suggestions are very welcome (Thanks in advance).
 
Re: Fender CS Fat Nocaster- Pickup Balance

Welcome to the forum.

I own a regular Fender CS Nocaster. Mine is completely stock except that the previous owner had modified the selector switch wiring to neck/both/bridge. On your guitar, the obvious thing to do is raise the control plate and confirm the exact control wiring layout. Be thankful that it is not the original volume + blend set-up.

You have already made one of the obvious suggestions; to reduce the output of the neck pickup. Lowering it away from the strings is one option. Changing to a weaker magnet is another. The third option is to change the bridge pickup.

The Fender Hot Rod '52 Tele comes with a hotter "Broadcaster" style lead/treble pickup to better balance with a humbucker in the neck/rhythm position. If budget allows, the SD Custom Shop '53 Tapped Tele is about as good as it gets. Dual output levels, vintage and hot. Wire it up via a five way selector switch to get all of the options.
 
Fender CS Fat Nocaster- Pickup Balance

Look up the Fender Fat Tele wiring scheme. It involves a 500k pot and a 270k resistor, and results in no change to your bridge pickup tone, while your neck pickup goes through a 500k pot. It can squeeze a bit more treble and clarity from that humbucker of yours. Combined with careful tweaking of it's height, it could make enough difference to get you where you need to go.

I had a '59 in the neck of my Tele for a while. To be honest, I could never get it to balance well with my bridge pickup. I hope you have better luck.

Mag swaps is another option for you. That's something I didn't try with mine.
 
Re: Fender CS Fat Nocaster- Pickup Balance

Hmm - I got another brand with a similar pickup setup.

Neck humbucker is set really low (Guessing well over 1/8") and pole pieces are flush with the cover. Other thing is (not 100% sure on this but its customary for the MFR) there's a resistor that's switched in so that the hum bucker sees 500K and the single 250K.
 
Re: Fender CS Fat Nocaster- Pickup Balance

Look inside the control cavity. As a first order of business, you must determine what wiring you have. It could be "blend" ('50 – most of '52), "vintage" (late '52 – most of '67) or "modern" (late '67 and up).

Based on what you described, I'm guessing it is either blend or vintage wiring scheme. With both of them, you get the humbucker alone in the forward and middle switch positions. The forward position in both schemes is the humbucker through a heavy treble filtering capacitor, designed to allow you to mimic the sound of a bass (i.e. all low end). The middle position in the vintage scheme is the humbucker through the tone pot, while in the blend scheme, it is the humbucker with no tone pot (because there is no tone pot). In the vintage scheme, the rearward position is the bridge pickup with no tone control, and in the blend scheme, it's the bridge pickup with the ability to use the blend knob to bring in the neck pickup in parallel.

IMO, the best – and certainly the easiest – way to modify the vintage or blend wiring schemes to be useful with today's music is to simply replace the .05 uF front position cap with one at least 1/10 the value. This is known as the "Eldred mod." It filters out only the very top end, giving the tone an aggressive and nasally, somewhat "cocked wah" tone...almost like having a snarly, Edward G. Robinson-esque overdrive built into your switch. Blend+Eldred is my favorite way to wire a Tele, as it combines what are IMO the best features of the Eldred Esquire scheme and the modern Tele scheme. The caps I like for that mod are .0022, .0033, and .0047 uF.
 
Re: Fender CS Fat Nocaster- Pickup Balance

Thanks for the responses folks and thanks also for the welcome.

I'd never heard of the blend circuit but after some googling around some people seem to love it? Horses for courses.

I had another look in the cavity and it looks to me like the modern version in the provided schematics but not exactly as far as I can see.

It appears to still have the vintage wiring IC 5032 (? - can't read it even with glasses) cap rather than the .022uf one as per the modern wiring diagram?

Photo attached (I hope :

http://i308.photobucket.com/albums/kk325/markatards/Nocasterwiring_zps21bcbc9e.jpg


The 5OOk pot plus resistor sounds promising.

Thanks again.
 
Re: Fender CS Fat Nocaster- Pickup Balance

Hmm - tried to post a reply and lost it. Hopefully this doesn't end up as a duplicate.

Thanks for the responses and also for the welcome.

I had another look in the cavity and I'm not quite sure what I have.

It looks to me like the modern wiring but not exactly as it appears to still have the vintage wiring IC 5032 cap (? - can't read the schematic even with glasses) rather than the modern spec .022uf cap.

Here's a photo (hopefully) :

http://i308.photobucket.com/albums/kk325/markatards/Nocasterwiring_zps21bcbc9e.jpg

Thanks again. Lots of info to absorb!
 
Re: Fender CS Fat Nocaster- Pickup Balance

Ho, hum. Three hour delay this time. :scratchch
 
Re: Fender CS Fat Nocaster- Pickup Balance

Hi all.

I tried to post two replies two days ago but they aren't showing up here but my profile data shows three posts made (including my initial post).

I'm loathe to try posting a longer message again here only for it to disappear.

Am I doing something wrong?
 
Re: Fender CS Fat Nocaster- Pickup Balance

Hi all.

I tried to post two replies two days ago but they aren't showing up here but my profile data shows three posts made (including my initial post).

I'm loathe to try posting a longer message again here only for it to disappear.

Am I doing something wrong?

That worked :)

More later.
 
Re: Fender CS Fat Nocaster- Pickup Balance

Look inside the control cavity. As a first order of business, you must determine what wiring you have. It could be "blend" ('50 – most of '52), "vintage" (late '52 – most of '67) or "modern" (late '67 and up).

Based on what you described, I'm guessing it is either blend or vintage wiring scheme. With both of them, you get the humbucker alone in the forward and middle switch positions. The forward position in both schemes is the humbucker through a heavy treble filtering capacitor, designed to allow you to mimic the sound of a bass (i.e. all low end). The middle position in the vintage scheme is the humbucker through the tone pot, while in the blend scheme, it is the humbucker with no tone pot (because there is no tone pot). In the vintage scheme, the rearward position is the bridge pickup with no tone control, and in the blend scheme, it's the bridge pickup with the ability to use the blend knob to bring in the neck pickup in parallel.

OK

I can rule out the blend and vintage wiring as the tone pot works in all three positions. Never heard of the blend scheme before and after a little googling some people seem to swear by (or swear at) it.

Had a look inside and compared it to the Fender provided schematics and it looks to be 'almost' identical to modern wiring. The only oddity is that it still has the vintage spec 5032 cap (? can't read it properly even with glasses) rather than the modern spec .022uf one.

I'll try to post a pic.
 
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