Fender Electric XII Pickups...Translated in Strat Pickup Vernacular

[RMosack]

I know the old Fender Maverick and Fender Electric XII had those weird split coil pickups that look a little like Fender P Bass pickups or G&L Z coil pickups. I assume the two sides make them humbucking. But how would you describe their tone in terms of Strat equivalents?

In other words, if I wanted to build a partscaster 12 string that got Fender XII tones, but did NOT want to cut up a pickguard and source those weird pickups, I'd like to just use normal Strat sized pickups. To do so, I'd have to have a clue how those XII pickups sound.

Which is closest?
1) A typical vintage Strat pickup
2) A typical Jaguar pickup
3) A Jazzmaster pickup
4) An overwound pickup like a Strat Quarter Pounder or Fender Texas Special
5) A Hot Rails or Cool Rails
6) A Strat sized humbucker ... Lil 59, JB Jr, etc.

 

[Mincer]

To me, they were like a Strat pickup, but quieter. Like a Vintage Rails or Duckbucker.

 

[beaubrummels]

Maybe Antiquity II Mustang or Antiquity Duo-Sonic would fit the bill? But I'd ask the Custom Shop about both the dimensions and sound. They would know right away what single coil pickups they have that would be close to the sound.

Duckbucker is an interesting suggestion, almost the same pickup in a single Strat profile.

 

[freefrog]

I'd consider Fender Super 55 Split coils: they host two mini coils, apparently wound with thin wire (like in original XII pickups, AFAIK), but placed side by side in a same row...

They have the usual "flaw" of split coils: a magnetic dead spot between D and G strings, muting the sound of the neck PU when one bends the G string over it... but if they must power a 12 strings played traditionally (IOW, without bending strings), they appear to me as the closest alternative to Fender XII split coils in a standard SC frame. YMMV.

 

[RMosack]

I posted a similar question on TGP. From what a few people say, the original Electric XII pickups were higher output (louder) than Strat pickups. Apparently, they were kind of bright too, although it's hard to perfectly judge that if you are hearing a 12 string. I think Fender used them in one other oddball guitar, but I can't really remember.

One poster said this: "Old XII pickups were a much hotter wind than other Fender singles, and generally pretty bright sounding. Similar to a hot Tele bridge sound."

Another: "Much hotter than old Mustang pickups!"

And another: "Basically the XII pickups sound like a Mustang should sound. Very similar in some ways but way nicer with more guts, clarity, and not shrill thin."

Based on all of this, my low sample size guess is some sort of hotter Strat pickup, but not one that's dark or muddy.

The Duckbucker looks the part with the split coil thing going on, but I have no idea if it sounds like a hotter Strat with some nice brightness.

 

[RMosack]

I'd consider Fender Super 55 Split coils: they host two mini coils, apparently wound with thin wire (like in original XII pickups, AFAIK), but placed side by side in a same row...

They have the usual "flaw" of split coils: a magnetic dead spot between D and G strings, muting the sound of the neck PU when one bends the G string over it... but if they must power a 12 strings played traditionally (IOW, without bending strings), they appear to me as the closest alternative to Fender XII split coils in a standard SC frame. YMMV.

Interesting. I didn't even know those existed until your post.

 

[Mincer]

I posted a similar question on TGP. From what a few people say, the original Electric XII pickups were higher output (louder) than Strat pickups. Apparently, they were kind of bright too, although it's hard to perfectly judge that if you are hearing a 12 string. I think Fender used them in one other oddball guitar, but I can't really remember.

One poster said this: "Old XII pickups were a much hotter wind than other Fender singles, and generally pretty bright sounding. Similar to a hot Tele bridge sound."

Another: "Much hotter than old Mustang pickups!"

And another: "Basically the XII pickups sound like a Mustang should sound. Very similar in some ways but way nicer with more guts, clarity, and not shrill thin."

Based on all of this, my low sample size guess is some sort of hotter Strat pickup, but not one that's dark or muddy.

The Duckbucker looks the part with the split coil thing going on, but I have no idea if it sounds like a hotter Strat with some nice brightness.

Well the Duckbucker has the brightness, but isn't very hot. You can go hotter, like a Classic Stack Plus, but a tiny bit of the brightness won't be there. When you get into higher output true single coils, they start to get more mids.

 

[Chistopher]

I could see XII pickups being hotter/darker to tame the brightness of the octave up strings

 

[freefrog]

I posted a similar question on TGP. From what a few people say, the original Electric XII pickups were higher output (louder) than Strat pickups. Apparently, they were kind of bright too, although it's hard to perfectly judge that if you are hearing a 12 string. I think Fender used them in one other oddball guitar, but I can't really remember.

One poster said this: "Old XII pickups were a much hotter wind than other Fender singles, and generally pretty bright sounding. Similar to a hot Tele bridge sound."

Another: "Much hotter than old Mustang pickups!"

And another: "Basically the XII pickups sound like a Mustang should sound. Very similar in some ways but way nicer with more guts, clarity, and not shrill thin."

Based on all of this, my low sample size guess is some sort of hotter Strat pickup, but not one that's dark or muddy.

The Duckbucker looks the part with the split coil thing going on, but I have no idea if it sounds like a hotter Strat with some nice brightness.

I really like Duncan SC sized humbuckers: my number one for live sessions hosts a pair of Duncan rails for decades... The series/parallel options of such pickups make them extremely versatile, giving access to warm powerful sound as well as to convincing Fender style tones (as illustrated by Barden products but strangely, users rarely think to wire Hot Rails or Cool Rails in parallel to obtain a similar result).

That said: AFAIK, a Duckbucker in parallel in closer to the specs of a Danelectro Lipstick than to a Fender SC (with a DCR under 3k and an inductance in the 1.4H range, to compare to the 1.3H of a Lipstick). In series, it tends towards the inductance of an underwound P90.

Also, in my understanding, a Duckbucker has not "the split coil thing going on": it rather hosts "half poled coils", so to speak. I mean that in my mind, this model (like the Vintage Rails) hosts two narrow coils extended under all strings , but with magnetic poles under only half of them.
"Real" split coils in a SC frame are rare on the market: there's the Fender super 55 Split Coils that I mentioned or the Fralin Split Blade design. Nothing else comes to my mind for the moment.

Last but not least: a Duckbucker won't have the strong magnetic field that Fender XII's probably owe to double tall AlNiCo rods and explaining partly their "hotter" output (the other explanation of their perceived "bright hotness" being the use of 1M pots in Fender 12 strings guitar, IMO).


AFAIK, Fender XII pickups measured something like 5.5k per coil, for a total DCR of 11k. Apparently, each coil was overwound compared to a standard Fender SC, thanks to the use of a higher wire gauge.


Most of these specs are approximatively reproduced in Fender Super 55 Split Coils and that's why I've named this model in my previous post.

I'd certainly not hesitate to mount a couple of Duckbuckers in a 12 strings guitar but I wouldn't expect them to sound like the PU's of a Fender XII.

FWIW: drivel from my old brain. Do what you want and be happy. Good luck in your quest.

 

[RMosack]

I really like Duncan SC sized humbuckers: my number one for live sessions hosts a pair of Duncan rails for decades... The series/parallel options of such pickups make them extremely versatile, giving access to warm powerful sound as well as to convincing Fender style tones (as illustrated by Barden products but strangely, users rarely think to wire Hot Rails or Cool Rails in parallel to obtain a similar result).

That said: AFAIK, a Duckbucker in parallel in closer to the specs of a Danelectro Lipstick than to a Fender SC (with a DCR under 3k and an inductance in the 1.4H range, to compare to the 1.3H of a Lipstick). In series, it tends towards the inductance of an underwound P90.

Also, in my understanding, a Duckbucker has not "the split coil thing going on": it rather hosts "half poled coils", so to speak. I mean that in my mind, this model (like the Vintage Rails) hosts two narrow coils extended under all strings , but with magnetic poles under only half of them.
"Real" split coils in a SC frame are rare on the market: there's the Fender super 55 Split Coils that I mentioned or the Fralin Split Blade design. Nothing else comes to my mind for the moment.

Last but not least: a Duckbucker won't have the strong magnetic field that Fender XII's probably owe to double tall AlNiCo rods and explaining partly their "hotter" output (the other explanation of their perceived "bright hotness" being the use of 1M pots in Fender 12 strings guitar, IMO).


AFAIK, Fender XII pickups measured something like 5.5k per coil, for a total DCR of 11k. Apparently, each coil was overwound compared to a standard Fender SC, thanks to the use of a higher wire gauge.


Most of these specs are approximatively reproduced in Fender Super 55 Split Coils and that's why I've named this model in my previous post.

I'd certainly not hesitate to mount a couple of Duckbuckers in a 12 strings guitar but I wouldn't expect them to sound like the PU's of a Fender XII.

FWIW: drivel from my old brain. Do what you want and be happy. Good luck in your quest.

Thanks for the detailed response.