Fender Jag/JM folks – question for you

[ItsaBass]

Fender Jag/JM folks – question for you

Hello,

I'm about to try out a neck shim for my AV Jag, in order to get the strings off of those big screws on the vibrato and try for a less "plunky" sound. I was just curious which neck angle is most commonly successful at doing this. I have 1 degree notches on my miter saw, but it seems like that might be too much angle. Any thoughts about that?

 

[Silence Kid]

Re: Fender Jag/JM folks – question for you

Re: Fender Jag/JM folks – question for you

If I use a shim at all, it's a business card. If you try to shim above the big Phillips screws on an AVRI vibrato, that will likely be a lot of angle if it's even possible. I don't think there's that much harm in the string winds contacting those screws; but whether they touch or even if they don't, you will have a LOT less string breakage by using strings with reinforced windings (like Ernie Ball RPS.)

I also recommend not shimming to the point where the bridge is raised so much the strings contact the back of it. I just put a vintage bridge on my Jaguar; it is super tight and improved sustain and decay quite a bit. How tight are the saddles on your bridge; do they wiggle easily? I haven't taken apart an AVRI lately, but my vintage bridge is much tighter than the Japanese bridge it replaced.

 

[FuseG4]

Re: Fender Jag/JM folks – question for you

Re: Fender Jag/JM folks – question for you

Yeah cardstock the thickness of a business card, placed towards the heel side of the pocket, is all I've ever needed

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: Fender Jag/JM folks – question for you

Re: Fender Jag/JM folks – question for you

Thanks for the replies.

I haven't really dug in to the bridge, or any setup parameters, yet. The bridge seems solid enough, just oddly set up. I can see the shop set it up "improperly," by lowering the saddles too much. It's set with low saddles and high post height, and the strings contacting the rear lip of the bridge frame. I'll have to change that by lowering the posts and raising the saddles. (Of course, that becomes a hassle due to the fact that the mute assembly needs to be lowered the proper amount *before* lowering the bridge.) But even after squaring away this issue, I can see that I'll need/want to raise string height from the body a bit, without raising string height over the neck...so I definitely need more shim than factory. Heavier strings without wraps (just ordered some Fender Original Bullets .011's) and a spring adjustment might get the strings a bit higher off of those screws. I will see.

I found what might be an acceptable screw replacement at McMaster-Carr. I'll have to pull one of my stock screws and measure the head height to see if the McMaster screws are actually any lower, though. Also, they're stainless, so even if they do help the issue, I might have take them to get chrome plated for aesthetics' sake.

I love this guitar. It's pretty much tonally perfect as stock. I just want to reduce the "plunky" lack of sustain a bit, and get the strings off of those screws.

 

[FuseG4]

Re: Fender Jag/JM folks – question for you

Re: Fender Jag/JM folks – question for you

I heard that the jazzmaster at least was sort of designed assuming people would be shimming the neck and raising the saddles and indeed with just a Little shim the bridge is high enough and the tension on the strings is good and they clear the back of the bridge, and the sustain is good that way even with 9 gauge strings they don't really jump out of the saddles, and the trem works better I feel like.

 

[Silence Kid]

Re: Fender Jag/JM folks – question for you

Re: Fender Jag/JM folks – question for you

If you use the mute and want reasonable action, you need to shim a Jaguar. I don't use the mute so I use a minimal shim (or no shim- I forgot tbh.) I use 9s on my Jaguar and Jazzmasters, no issues with strings popping out or tension.

The issue with 9s is if you want to use the "lock" button, some newer trems don't have a compatible spring tension/length to do so (unless you step up to 10s or 11s.)

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: Fender Jag/JM folks – question for you

Re: Fender Jag/JM folks – question for you

I put 11's on most of my other guitars. I thought I'd go with 12's on a short scale Jag, but I really want to use Fender Bullets on this guitar, as I believe it will help alleviate a couple of issues. AFAICT, those strings are not made any heavier than 11's. I'm trying the Original Bullets 11's on my first string change. I can deal with a slinkier feeling guitar if it means having the bullet ends (which IMO are quite helpful on many vibrato-equipped guitars, and seem like they could help with string clearance over those screws).

Again, the stock bridge seems fine in terms of quality – just poorly set up by the shop.

I do want to use the mute, but not as stock. I have some mods in mind for it.

FWIW, I think I'm leaving the electronics mostly stock. The previous owner might have screwed with the strangle switch, because it doesn't seem to do much. I thought it was supposed to remove low end to create a piercing, thin tone, but it seems more like it gives the tone a *very* slightly mid scooped sound instead. Other than fixing that up, and perhaps replacing the two pickup switches with a toggle, I think can deal with the stock wiring.

 

[Silence Kid]

Re: Fender Jag/JM folks – question for you

Re: Fender Jag/JM folks – question for you

I've seen people flip the outer of the three screws to keep them from rubbing the string winds, but I would never do that; that means your trem pivot would only be attached by one screw, and that's scary. The threads of the outer screws would have nothing to bite into on the plate, so that doesn't seem stable long or short term.

If you found a source for some flat screws that fit, that's a good idea

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: Fender Jag/JM folks – question for you

Re: Fender Jag/JM folks – question for you

I've seen people flip the outer of the three screws to keep them from rubbing the string winds, but I would never do that; that means your trem pivot would only be attached by one screw, and that's scary. The threads of the outer screws would have nothing to bite into on the plate, so that doesn't seem stable long or short term.

If you found a source for some flat screws that fit, that's a good idea

I am aware of the screw flipping trick, but I'm not gonna do that if I can avoid it.


There are definitely low profile truss head screws that would solve the problem. They just look like ass. They have a very modern looking angled cut on the head, and they are slot headed. They'd stick out like a sore thumb against all the chrome and rounded Phillips screws on the rest of the vibrato unit.

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: Fender Jag/JM folks – question for you

Re: Fender Jag/JM folks – question for you

I've seen people flip the outer of the three screws to keep them from rubbing the string winds, but I would never do that; that means your trem pivot would only be attached by one screw, and that's scary. The threads of the outer screws would have nothing to bite into on the plate, so that doesn't seem stable long or short term.

If you found a source for some flat screws that fit, that's a good idea

FWIW, I pulled the middle screw and measured it with my calipers. 0.382" head width, 0.102 head height, and 0.210" shaft length (about 7/32"). McMaster-Carr sells nothing any shorter. I don't think the Fender screws are even chrome plated. They're likely the same exact stainless truss head machine screws that McMaster sell. The old screws from the '60's were likely the same specs too, just with a slight flat on top. I'd say the real difference between old and new is the location of the screw holes in the string mounting plate. It's higher on the vintage ones.

As the guitar stands, after setting up the Trem-Lock properly today, the low E almost clears. It won't need much additional shim.

 

[Silence Kid]

Re: Fender Jag/JM folks – question for you

Re: Fender Jag/JM folks – question for you

The funny thing is: Squier & MIJ vibratos have the pivot placed in such a way that the string wraps clear those screws. Too bad Squier & MIJ tremolos are horrible; the last three *brand new ones* I encountered were faulty and creaked/went out of tune by whole steps or more during use.

(I did manage to make all three import trems useable by filing the pivot, but that is a *very* precise operation, easy to screw up and ruin the thing permanently and **** it I'm never doing that again. The AVRI vibrato has better feel and geometry by far and works out of the box.)