Fender Jazzmaster, Mustang, Duo Sonic, and Jaguar guitars
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DavidRavenMoon
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Re: Fender Jazzmaster, Mustang, Duo Sonic, and Jaguar guitars
Mustang pickups are exactly the same as Strat pickups, except without magnet stagger since they have closed covers. The reason for the closed covers is so when switched out of phase you won’t get hum touching the magnets.
Back in the day Jazzmasters and Jaguars were Fender’s top-of-the-line guitars. Later in the 80s people used them because they weren’t a Strat or Les Paul and could be had used much cheaper.
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Mustang pickups are exactly the same as Strat pickups, except without magnet stagger since they have closed covers. The reason for the closed covers is so when switched out of phase you won’t get hum touching the magnets.
Back in the day Jazzmasters and Jaguars were Fender’s top-of-the-line guitars. Later in the 80s people used them because they weren’t a Strat or Les Paul and could be had used much cheaper.
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Re: Fender Jazzmaster, Mustang, Duo Sonic, and Jaguar guitars
Thanks man! On the Fender Mustang what pickup position is good for high gain? Is it the bridge like other guitars? Also how do you use the two switches to achieve this? I'm new to this kind of guitar.
Thanks man! On the Fender Mustang what pickup position is good for high gain? Is it the bridge like other guitars? Also how do you use the two switches to achieve this? I'm new to this kind of guitar.
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NegativeEase
New member
Re: Fender Jazzmaster, Mustang, Duo Sonic, and Jaguar guitars
Lots of tonal reasons for Surf Rock originally -I think grunge was more a style reaction to a decades of Super Strat (80s) and a decade of classic Les Pauls as the dominating guitars of the ealry/mid 70s and mid/late 80s rock scene.
Here are a few of the reasons:
For Surf:
-Jazz masters, Duo Sonics, Mustangs, and Jags are Off Waste Guitars -simply put -they are Wavey -thus fitting the surf style -seriously
-Fender's were cheaper in cost than traditionally made guitars like Gibson because they used stamped bridges, bolt on necks, straight heads, pickguard cavities, Maple materials, inexpensive tremelo systems etc etc -this made them more accessible to the youth who were interested in Surfrockin the 60s
-Fender's longer scale (25.5) (except Jag and Mustang) makes for a bigger slower string attack and a tone that lends itself to the surf sound.
-Fender's Maple Fret Boards and guitars made for a snappy, bright tone. -Although the more expensive Jazzmaster used Rosewood
-Fender's J8 Single Coils are breathy and good for surf
-other Fender style single coil pickups are also good for surf in the way filtertrons are by Gretsch.
-The Jazzmaster and some other Fenders have a longer string throw from the bridge to tremelo making for a resonance that most other guitars try to mitigate.
-Fender Amps were great for Surf and you could but Fender Mustangs etc as a combo with an amp inexpensively.
Lots of other reasons... but you get the idea.
Lots of tonal reasons for Surf Rock originally -I think grunge was more a style reaction to a decades of Super Strat (80s) and a decade of classic Les Pauls as the dominating guitars of the ealry/mid 70s and mid/late 80s rock scene.
Here are a few of the reasons:
For Surf:
-Jazz masters, Duo Sonics, Mustangs, and Jags are Off Waste Guitars -simply put -they are Wavey -thus fitting the surf style -seriously
-Fender's were cheaper in cost than traditionally made guitars like Gibson because they used stamped bridges, bolt on necks, straight heads, pickguard cavities, Maple materials, inexpensive tremelo systems etc etc -this made them more accessible to the youth who were interested in Surfrockin the 60s
-Fender's longer scale (25.5) (except Jag and Mustang) makes for a bigger slower string attack and a tone that lends itself to the surf sound.
-Fender's Maple Fret Boards and guitars made for a snappy, bright tone. -Although the more expensive Jazzmaster used Rosewood
-Fender's J8 Single Coils are breathy and good for surf
-other Fender style single coil pickups are also good for surf in the way filtertrons are by Gretsch.
-The Jazzmaster and some other Fenders have a longer string throw from the bridge to tremelo making for a resonance that most other guitars try to mitigate.
-Fender Amps were great for Surf and you could but Fender Mustangs etc as a combo with an amp inexpensively.
Lots of other reasons... but you get the idea.
allbutromeo
New member
Re: Fender Jazzmaster, Mustang, Duo Sonic, and Jaguar guitars
Mustang switches are on/off/on for each pickup. Slide the switch in either direction and the pickup is on, if both pickups are on and both switches are slid in the same direction (both towards the bridge, or both towards the neck) they are in phase, if the switches are positioned with one towards the bridge and one towards the neck they are out of phase. Also the base plate on the bridge pickup is backwards compared to a strat, with the v shaped side towards the neck
Mustang switches are on/off/on for each pickup. Slide the switch in either direction and the pickup is on, if both pickups are on and both switches are slid in the same direction (both towards the bridge, or both towards the neck) they are in phase, if the switches are positioned with one towards the bridge and one towards the neck they are out of phase. Also the base plate on the bridge pickup is backwards compared to a strat, with the v shaped side towards the neck
ItsaBass
New member
Re: Fender Jazzmaster, Mustang, Duo Sonic, and Jaguar guitars
The JM and Jag are popular in instrumental and surf music because they were viewed as very deluxe and stylish instruments. The Mustang and Duo-Sonic were not. That said, plenty of Strats were used in these genres as well.
Indy and grunge folks latched onto them because they were cheap, and had become so un-hip that they were hip.
The main difference between Strat and Mustang/Duo-Sonic pickups is in the wiring design of the entire circuit, not the pickups themselves. That said, they were flat poled, which does sound a bit difference in terms of string balance. They also had one RW/RP pickup, which Strats did not.
Mustangs and Duo-Sonic II's are two similar looking variants of the same guitar. Both have the same shape. Both have the same pickups in the same spots. Both had an on/off/on switch for each pickup. The second on position reverses the phase of its respective pickup. The differences are: 1) The Duo-SOnic is a hardtail, while the Mustang has a vibrato, and even more importantly, 2) The Duo-Sonic's pickups were wired in series, and the Mustang's were wired in parallel. Thus both pickups on resulted in a lighter sound with the Mustang, and a heavier sound with the Duo-Sonic II (a split-position series humbucker). Either guitar could have one pickup in or out of phase with the other when both pickups were on.
So, on a Duo-Sonic, your switching options are: 1) both pickups off, 2) bridge pickup alone, 3) neck pickup alone, 4) both pickups in series, in phase, humbucking 5) both pickups in series, out of phase, humbucking.
And on a Mustang, your switching options are: 1) both pickups off 2) bridge pickup alone, 3) neck pickup alone, 4) both pickups in parallel, in phase, humbucking 5) both pickups in parallel, out of phase, humbucking.
The Duo-Sonic II is a significantly cooler guitar IMO. The hardtail bridge and the series wiring are way better than a Mustang IMO.
I have an original '60's pair of Duo-Sonic II pickups (one of which was wound by AY) in my '95 MIJ Strat, in the bridge and middle positions. I have the guitar wired so that they can be run together as an in-phase humbucker, as they were originally intended to be.
As for the wiring of the Jazzmaster and Jag, it's really awesome IMO. But after going into detail about the Mustang and Duo-Sonic II, I am going to laze out regarding the JM/Jag, and let some else explain.
The JM and Jag are popular in instrumental and surf music because they were viewed as very deluxe and stylish instruments. The Mustang and Duo-Sonic were not. That said, plenty of Strats were used in these genres as well.
Indy and grunge folks latched onto them because they were cheap, and had become so un-hip that they were hip.
The main difference between Strat and Mustang/Duo-Sonic pickups is in the wiring design of the entire circuit, not the pickups themselves. That said, they were flat poled, which does sound a bit difference in terms of string balance. They also had one RW/RP pickup, which Strats did not.
Mustangs and Duo-Sonic II's are two similar looking variants of the same guitar. Both have the same shape. Both have the same pickups in the same spots. Both had an on/off/on switch for each pickup. The second on position reverses the phase of its respective pickup. The differences are: 1) The Duo-SOnic is a hardtail, while the Mustang has a vibrato, and even more importantly, 2) The Duo-Sonic's pickups were wired in series, and the Mustang's were wired in parallel. Thus both pickups on resulted in a lighter sound with the Mustang, and a heavier sound with the Duo-Sonic II (a split-position series humbucker). Either guitar could have one pickup in or out of phase with the other when both pickups were on.
So, on a Duo-Sonic, your switching options are: 1) both pickups off, 2) bridge pickup alone, 3) neck pickup alone, 4) both pickups in series, in phase, humbucking 5) both pickups in series, out of phase, humbucking.
And on a Mustang, your switching options are: 1) both pickups off 2) bridge pickup alone, 3) neck pickup alone, 4) both pickups in parallel, in phase, humbucking 5) both pickups in parallel, out of phase, humbucking.
The Duo-Sonic II is a significantly cooler guitar IMO. The hardtail bridge and the series wiring are way better than a Mustang IMO.
I have an original '60's pair of Duo-Sonic II pickups (one of which was wound by AY) in my '95 MIJ Strat, in the bridge and middle positions. I have the guitar wired so that they can be run together as an in-phase humbucker, as they were originally intended to be.
As for the wiring of the Jazzmaster and Jag, it's really awesome IMO. But after going into detail about the Mustang and Duo-Sonic II, I am going to laze out regarding the JM/Jag, and let some else explain.
DavidRavenMoon
New member
Re: Fender Jazzmaster, Mustang, Duo Sonic, and Jaguar guitars
Both pickups are the same. Just as with every other guitar the bridge pickup is brighter than the neck.
The switches switch the pickups on and off and offer reverse polarity for an out-of-phase tone, which is thinner with a honky midrange.
I have a ‘72 Mustang. I put Bill Lawrence L-250s in it. It’s a fun little guitar.
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Both pickups are the same. Just as with every other guitar the bridge pickup is brighter than the neck.
The switches switch the pickups on and off and offer reverse polarity for an out-of-phase tone, which is thinner with a honky midrange.
I have a ‘72 Mustang. I put Bill Lawrence L-250s in it. It’s a fun little guitar.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Silence Kid
New member
Re: Fender Jazzmaster, Mustang, Duo Sonic, and Jaguar guitars
To be specific - even non-staggered Strat pickups are different from Mustang pickups, which (except for very late plastic-bobbin examples) have pole pieces flush with the bobbin rather than slightly elevated as on a Strat.
I think one part of the offset equation that really affected their use in surf music was the vibrato - Set to float with up/down-bend, the Jaguar/Jazzmaster vibrato has close to the same range as a Strat vibrato but provides much more subtle/less direct control over its entire range of motion. The Mustang vibrato is almost the opposite - gigantic range and a very direct yet loose feel. Jaguar/Jazzmaster vibratos are easy/plug and play, but getting Mustangs to work properly can involve a lengthy setup and lots of patience; there are a lot of parts that need to be balanced properly to each other and the pivot points cannot be worn at all. That said, I really love the Mustang vibrato - probably the worst thing about it to me is the giant tailpiece cigar can get in the way of your picking hand.
I think yet another reason these guitars were picked up for surf (Jaguar/Jazzmaster in particular) are the 1 meg pots they use. I don't think 1 meg makes as earth-shattering of a difference as some people do, but they're notably brighter than say a Strat. You will probably want to totally re-EQ your rig around the guitars. Speaking of the wiring, the Jaguar has a "bright" switch that works on both pickups and indeed can sound very (stereotypically) surfy. Elaborating on the Jaguar's wiring - basically the three switches on the treble bout are: Neck Pickup On/Off, Bridge Pickup On/Off, Brightness On/Off. The switch on the bass bout puts you in 'dark' mode (Fender calls this 'rhythm' mode) and activates the neck pickup only with a 50k tone pot and its own separate volume/tone rollers. The intended use is to have a darker tone dialed in that you can switch to at any time, regardless of the position of the switches & knobs in standard/'lead' mode. A Jazzmaster has the same circuit, but uses a 3 position switch similar to a Gibson SG and doesn't have a bright switch.
Figuring I might as well keep going since the Mustang was already pretty well covered above... Jazzmaster pickups sound somewhat 'cooler' and 'darker' if that makes sense; smoother and fatter than Strat pickups, but without as much twang. They are also more susceptible to noise than a lot of other single coils, is what I've noticed. Fender 'fixed' that problem with the Jaguar pickups, which are really very well shielded thanks to the presence of the claw; if you look at the patent diagram their function is really very similar to the design of Lace Sensors, although with not as thorough implementation. So to me they are notably quieter than a lot of single coils - although much of that depends on the shielding in the rest of the guitar. However, the claw around the Jaguar pickups can also cause some microphonics at high volumes. Jaguar pickups have slight differences in the size of the bobbin vs. Strat pickups but don't sound too different on their own. The Jaguar's 24" scale possibly also adds to the twanginess of the guitar - my overall understanding is that after the Jazzmaster was recognized as appealing to surf guitarists, Fender produced the Jaguar specifically with surf in mind.
Anyway you can tell I'm about as big of a fan as any of those guitars have - almost certainly so on this board (specifically for the Mustang.) IMO the Jaguar has one of the best clean tones you can get, and nothing sounds like a Jazzmaster. I like Mustangs but am more hesitant to recommend them to someone who is not already comfortable with the vibrato (both in operation and setup) since the Mustang sound is not as unique as either of the other guitars; almost might as well get a Strat. My parting note - if you get an MIJ/CIJ or Squier Offset, EXPECT TO REPLACE EVERYTHING. The MIM and US-made guitars are MUCH better all around.
To be specific - even non-staggered Strat pickups are different from Mustang pickups, which (except for very late plastic-bobbin examples) have pole pieces flush with the bobbin rather than slightly elevated as on a Strat.
I think one part of the offset equation that really affected their use in surf music was the vibrato - Set to float with up/down-bend, the Jaguar/Jazzmaster vibrato has close to the same range as a Strat vibrato but provides much more subtle/less direct control over its entire range of motion. The Mustang vibrato is almost the opposite - gigantic range and a very direct yet loose feel. Jaguar/Jazzmaster vibratos are easy/plug and play, but getting Mustangs to work properly can involve a lengthy setup and lots of patience; there are a lot of parts that need to be balanced properly to each other and the pivot points cannot be worn at all. That said, I really love the Mustang vibrato - probably the worst thing about it to me is the giant tailpiece cigar can get in the way of your picking hand.
I think yet another reason these guitars were picked up for surf (Jaguar/Jazzmaster in particular) are the 1 meg pots they use. I don't think 1 meg makes as earth-shattering of a difference as some people do, but they're notably brighter than say a Strat. You will probably want to totally re-EQ your rig around the guitars. Speaking of the wiring, the Jaguar has a "bright" switch that works on both pickups and indeed can sound very (stereotypically) surfy. Elaborating on the Jaguar's wiring - basically the three switches on the treble bout are: Neck Pickup On/Off, Bridge Pickup On/Off, Brightness On/Off. The switch on the bass bout puts you in 'dark' mode (Fender calls this 'rhythm' mode) and activates the neck pickup only with a 50k tone pot and its own separate volume/tone rollers. The intended use is to have a darker tone dialed in that you can switch to at any time, regardless of the position of the switches & knobs in standard/'lead' mode. A Jazzmaster has the same circuit, but uses a 3 position switch similar to a Gibson SG and doesn't have a bright switch.
Figuring I might as well keep going since the Mustang was already pretty well covered above... Jazzmaster pickups sound somewhat 'cooler' and 'darker' if that makes sense; smoother and fatter than Strat pickups, but without as much twang. They are also more susceptible to noise than a lot of other single coils, is what I've noticed. Fender 'fixed' that problem with the Jaguar pickups, which are really very well shielded thanks to the presence of the claw; if you look at the patent diagram their function is really very similar to the design of Lace Sensors, although with not as thorough implementation. So to me they are notably quieter than a lot of single coils - although much of that depends on the shielding in the rest of the guitar. However, the claw around the Jaguar pickups can also cause some microphonics at high volumes. Jaguar pickups have slight differences in the size of the bobbin vs. Strat pickups but don't sound too different on their own. The Jaguar's 24" scale possibly also adds to the twanginess of the guitar - my overall understanding is that after the Jazzmaster was recognized as appealing to surf guitarists, Fender produced the Jaguar specifically with surf in mind.
Anyway you can tell I'm about as big of a fan as any of those guitars have - almost certainly so on this board (specifically for the Mustang.) IMO the Jaguar has one of the best clean tones you can get, and nothing sounds like a Jazzmaster. I like Mustangs but am more hesitant to recommend them to someone who is not already comfortable with the vibrato (both in operation and setup) since the Mustang sound is not as unique as either of the other guitars; almost might as well get a Strat. My parting note - if you get an MIJ/CIJ or Squier Offset, EXPECT TO REPLACE EVERYTHING. The MIM and US-made guitars are MUCH better all around.
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DavidRavenMoon
New member
Re: Fender Jazzmaster, Mustang, Duo Sonic, and Jaguar guitars
Just because I have a photo handy. Here’s a ‘72 Mustang pickup.
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Just because I have a photo handy. Here’s a ‘72 Mustang pickup.
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FuseG4
Our Neighbor Totoro
Re: Fender Jazzmaster, Mustang, Duo Sonic, and Jaguar guitars
I don't think mustangs sound like strats but it was years of playing strats and finally trying a mustang and the round sound of the scale length and pickup combination and position, those really stood out to me as making for a slightly but noticeably warmer, slinkier guitar.
The middle position in phase is much less clucky to me than the bridge middle combo, and brighter but more hollow sounding mids vs strat neck and middle.
I really dig the differences and a mustang will probably be the next compliment to my collection.
jags for me also have that different sound on the ones I played that seemed short in scale length...
JM for me is sharper attack, less sustain, but lots of clarity, but the pickups are so different too.
Also I believe for the longest time these were popular cuz they were cheap in America.
The Japanese have had a thing with mustangs since the 70s I think, when an at the time Star dude called Char had one. Then people over there found the mustang are a cheap, small, student level guitar that fit well in smaller hands. And the offsets are sort of Hipster Cool if there's such a thing. They were "different" and the lower end models were perhaps slightly looked down on back then so that means cool today lol half kidding... But you know what I just think they're good guitars if you like fender.
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I don't think mustangs sound like strats but it was years of playing strats and finally trying a mustang and the round sound of the scale length and pickup combination and position, those really stood out to me as making for a slightly but noticeably warmer, slinkier guitar.
The middle position in phase is much less clucky to me than the bridge middle combo, and brighter but more hollow sounding mids vs strat neck and middle.
I really dig the differences and a mustang will probably be the next compliment to my collection.
jags for me also have that different sound on the ones I played that seemed short in scale length...
JM for me is sharper attack, less sustain, but lots of clarity, but the pickups are so different too.
Also I believe for the longest time these were popular cuz they were cheap in America.
The Japanese have had a thing with mustangs since the 70s I think, when an at the time Star dude called Char had one. Then people over there found the mustang are a cheap, small, student level guitar that fit well in smaller hands. And the offsets are sort of Hipster Cool if there's such a thing. They were "different" and the lower end models were perhaps slightly looked down on back then so that means cool today lol half kidding... But you know what I just think they're good guitars if you like fender.
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Silence Kid
New member
Re: Fender Jazzmaster, Mustang, Duo Sonic, and Jaguar guitars
For sure a Mustang sounds different, but not quite as unique IMO in comparison to the others- I agree with your assessment, they're basically a slinkier, janglier yet somehow darker Strat - but the sound to me is still very much in the Strat camp.
"Both-on" is absolutely the best Mustang sound. One cool thing about the thinner Mustang body is it allows better upper fret access. I don't mind the 24" necks, in general they're not built to feel tiny.
For sure a Mustang sounds different, but not quite as unique IMO in comparison to the others- I agree with your assessment, they're basically a slinkier, janglier yet somehow darker Strat - but the sound to me is still very much in the Strat camp.
"Both-on" is absolutely the best Mustang sound. One cool thing about the thinner Mustang body is it allows better upper fret access. I don't mind the 24" necks, in general they're not built to feel tiny.
FuseG4
Our Neighbor Totoro
Re: Fender Jazzmaster, Mustang, Duo Sonic, and Jaguar guitars
Just to me and my ears the jaguar sounds the most different.
Sometimes to me the JM has some overlap with both strat and tele sounds
But jags it's like I dunno what guitar I'm playing but sounds cool.
But I like to hear about how others perceive the differences it really shows how if you look for the differences, there they are.
But as Keith Richards said "lol give me five minutes, I'll make them all sound same".
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Just to me and my ears the jaguar sounds the most different.
Sometimes to me the JM has some overlap with both strat and tele sounds
But jags it's like I dunno what guitar I'm playing but sounds cool.
But I like to hear about how others perceive the differences it really shows how if you look for the differences, there they are.
But as Keith Richards said "lol give me five minutes, I'll make them all sound same".
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DavidRavenMoon
New member
Re: Fender Jazzmaster, Mustang, Duo Sonic, and Jaguar guitars
You saw the photo I posted? They are not flush, and even have a slight arch to them.
The important part is the dimensions and winding are the same as a Strat.
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You saw the photo I posted? They are not flush, and even have a slight arch to them.
The important part is the dimensions and winding are the same as a Strat.
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DavidRavenMoon
New member
Re: Fender Jazzmaster, Mustang, Duo Sonic, and Jaguar guitars
Yes, the short scale length gives it a different tone. Longer = more twang.
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Yes, the short scale length gives it a different tone. Longer = more twang.
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JB_From_Hell
Jomo's Nimions
Re: Fender Jazzmaster, Mustang, Duo Sonic, and Jaguar guitars
My first guitar was a ‘69 Competition Mustang. I only miss it for nostalgic reasons.
My first guitar was a ‘69 Competition Mustang. I only miss it for nostalgic reasons.
Silence Kid
New member
Re: Fender Jazzmaster, Mustang, Duo Sonic, and Jaguar guitars
Yet they protrude less than a regular non-staggered Strat pickup would. The two pics are advertised as Mustang pickups (vintage '68 & modern.) It wouldn't alarm me that anything could happen at CBS, could be sloppy assembly, could be they just screwed in whatever they had; in particular when staggered pickups were introduced to the Strat. But if you buy a new Mustang or most vintage Mustangs, or request Mustang spec. pickups from a winder, they should have flat magnets per below.
You're right that they're basically the same pickup, but the covers fit better if they're flat-topped, which is how they usually came from the factory. Duncan winds them flat too.
Yet they protrude less than a regular non-staggered Strat pickup would. The two pics are advertised as Mustang pickups (vintage '68 & modern.) It wouldn't alarm me that anything could happen at CBS, could be sloppy assembly, could be they just screwed in whatever they had; in particular when staggered pickups were introduced to the Strat. But if you buy a new Mustang or most vintage Mustangs, or request Mustang spec. pickups from a winder, they should have flat magnets per below.
You're right that they're basically the same pickup, but the covers fit better if they're flat-topped, which is how they usually came from the factory. Duncan winds them flat too.
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