Fender MIM quality, a couple things to look out for

[DreX]

I just got some new MIM Teles recently, both with minor issues I want to share so that you can look out for them if you're in the market. The guitars play fine and look good otherwise, but these two things shouldn't get past any sort of reasonable QC.

Narrow neck joint; the neck and body are not flush because the portion of the socket where the four bolts attach is one to two millimeters thinner than the neck:

Wood filler used to repair some sort of gouge in the neck, on the headstock and at the 17th fret. Everything is bellow the poly, so it was like this at the factory before it was finished over. I'm curious to know how this sort of damage would have happened to the wood. They're curved, shallow gouges, as if a spider had bored through the wood before it was milled. Often these kinds of guitars are sold as "blems", but this one wasn't.

 

[dominus]

Re: Fender MIM quality, a couple things to look out for

Should have picked up a Classic Vibe.

:firedevil

 

[Darg1911]

Re: Fender MIM quality, a couple things to look out for

Look at this American standard. Looks like the platform is wider than the neck. The American Ying to the Mexicans Yang :bigthumb:

http://media.musiciansfriend.com/is...m=0.5,1,6,0&id=ZqqQz3&wid=413&hei=655&fmt=jpg

 

[ehdwuld]

Re: Fender MIM quality, a couple things to look out for

hmmm

them fret ends look rough too

are they?


I really haven't studied my MIM strat that closely
if it plays good
that's enough for me


did you get these new?

 

[DreX]

Re: Fender MIM quality, a couple things to look out for

Should have picked up a Classic Vibe.

:firedevil

They're Cabronita Teles actually, so it's either MIM or $3000 Custom Shop. They're supposedly known to have "issues", although I'm not sure what issues others have had. It makes me wonder what sort of production process they have in Ensenada to where a particular run will be better or worse than another.

 

[Snake Aces]

Re: Fender MIM quality, a couple things to look out for

Not surprising to me at all. The overlap is pretty hit or miss with not only MIM guitars but almost any bolt on that is not fit and finished by a luthier or manufactured without better CNC QC. The gouge repair is new to me. I haven't seen it before but it's been 10 years since I have owned or even shopped for a MIM.

Most MIM issues I have had go beyond these two issues though but not too many of them have ever left the guitar unplayable (like you said).

 

[DreX]

Re: Fender MIM quality, a couple things to look out for

hmmm

them fret ends look rough too

are they?

Not at all. I've have two or three "new" MIMs with sharp fret ends, but it's impossible to rule out wood expansion and contraction that might have occurred after the guitar was already made. I'm not sure why MIMs seem to have this issue more than other guitars, though. I can't speak to MIA, but I've never received a MIJ with sharp frets.

I really haven't studied my MIM strat that closely
if it plays good
that's enough for me

Overall I'm happy with them. If not for the cheap MIMs, the Custom Shop prices would be a no go for me.

did you get these new?

Yes, and neither of these defects are things that you could attribute to wear and tear.

 

[ehdwuld]

Re: Fender MIM quality, a couple things to look out for

not so much wear and tear but maybe a reason for discount or warranty claim

if you bought them online you could as for a few bucks back
if you played them then bought them, should have seen that
if you got them used at a savings, then that is something else altogether

 

[DreX]

Re: Fender MIM quality, a couple things to look out for

Look at this American standard. Looks like the platform is wider than the neck. The American Ying to the Mexicans Yang :bigthumb:

http://media.musiciansfriend.com/is...m=0.5,1,6,0&id=ZqqQz3&wid=413&hei=655&fmt=jpg

It's a bit hard to tell if that's a lighting thing. I took a "straight on" pic of the neck to show it's not a trick of the lighting. When you're playing up at the higher frets, it's nice to feel a flush joint there. It's more the principle of QC and attention to detail, though.

In a WillsEasyGuitar YouTube video, he says it's wrong to think a guitar is better or worse because it's made by Mexicans or Americans, because "people are people", but I believe there can be, and are, differing baselines across societies for work ethics, pride in one's work, and attention to detail. I believe this at least partly explains why I don't see such issues from my MIJ guitars at the same price point, aside from matters of management and quality control. I have to admit, I'm less discriminating with MIMs because I know a lot Mexicans and have fond thoughts about Mexico, so there's an external value there. I'm sure it's wrong, but if I saw this in my Indonesian or Korean guitars, I'd be less forgiving. It's a personal shortcoming that makes me happier with a guitar that cost me a lot less though, so I come out ahead anyway.

 

[Snake Aces]

Re: Fender MIM quality, a couple things to look out for

It's a bit hard to tell if that's a lighting thing. I took a "straight on" pic of the neck to show it's not a trick of the lighting. When you're playing up at the higher frets, it's nice to feel a flush joint there. It's more the principle of QC and attention to detail, though.

In a WillsEasyGuitar YouTube video, he says it's wrong to think a guitar is better or worse because it's made by Mexicans or Americans, because "people are people", but I believe there can be, and are, differing baselines across societies for work ethics, pride in one's work, and attention to detail. I believe this at least partly explains why I don't see such issues from my MIJ guitars at the same price point, aside from matters of management and quality control. I have to admit, I'm less discriminating with MIMs because I know a lot Mexicans and have fond thoughts about Mexico, so there's an external value there. I'm sure it's wrong, but if I saw this in my Indonesian or Korean guitars, I'd be less forgiving. It's a personal shortcoming that makes me happier with a guitar that cost me a lot less though, so I come out ahead anyway.

I understand what you are trying to say. However, it is not anything based on the ethnicity of the workers or the location of the factory that affects the quality of the outcome. It is the training, equipment being used and the company's policies towards cost cutting (quantity) versus quality. It is unfair to bring any other factors into the discussion.

Any individual is capable of taking pride in their work. That's the wild card. Sometimes we find that one guitar or that one anything that was made by somebody who took pride in what they were doing and it's obvious there is something special about it.

 

[DreX]

Re: Fender MIM quality, a couple things to look out for

not so much wear and tear but maybe a reason for discount or warranty claim

if you bought them online you could as for a few bucks back
if you played them then bought them, should have seen that
if you got them used at a savings, then that is something else altogether

That's true, and I might, but this post was meant more of as a warning to MIM buyers. Sometimes people don't know what to look for, and you don't know what you might find until you actually find it.

 

[Nostalgic Distortion]

Re: Fender MIM quality, a couple things to look out for

My MIM Tele had the same issue, it doesn't affect the playability @ all so it doesn't bother me much? The frets on it were pretty sharp when I got it home too but I've just come to accept the fact that MIM's are going to need a bit of work when you buy them new. For every good one there's ten with defects, a little T.L.C. & you got a great guitar but I think just about every one I've bought new needed some kind of work done to it out of the box? I think the only one that didn't need anything @ all done to it was a B stock Cab, although I still can't figure out what about it is B stock???

I also bought a Cabronita for next to nothing a few months ago from The Stratosphere, they had put a bunch of them together then dumped them real quick in a flash sale, and I fully expected it to be a mess! They were getting bad reviews and guy's on the forum had some pretty awful horror story's but I figured for the price if it was trash maybe I could turn it into a good project guitar or @ the very least use it for parts? When I took it out of the box & ran some scales I was almost floored, I don't know if it was just luck & I got one of the good ones or WTF but the thing was setup perfect! The action was super low, & the intonation was dead on, & it plays like butter! I've left it stock because I actually really like the Fidel'tron pickups, it's not a everyday guitar but a very cool thing to have in your arsenal? For light break up bluesy stuff it's my go to guitar!

 

[DreX]

Re: Fender MIM quality, a couple things to look out for

Not surprising to me at all. The overlap is pretty hit or miss with not only MIM guitars but almost any bolt on that is not fit and finished by a luthier or manufactured without better CNC QC.

These are my eighth and ninth MIMs. This is the first time it was so bad that it actually drew my attention. I think they're usually well under 1mm of difference, "effectively flush" we'll say, though I don't want to hunt around for them all up and measure them right now. This one is definitely over 1mm in difference.

I understand what you are trying to say. However, it is not anything based on the ethnicity of the workers or the location of the factory that affects the quality of the outcome. It is the training, equipment being used and the company's policies towards cost cutting (quantity) versus quality. It is unfair to bring any other factors into the discussion.

Any individual is capable of taking pride in their work. That's the wild card. Sometimes we find that one guitar or that one anything that was made by somebody who took pride in what they were doing and it's obvious there is something special about it.

It can be that, but I just don't believe work ethics are homogeneous the world over, so that can't be discounted either. People said MIMs were getting better. Frankly, I don't see how that's true, and it seems like we're going on fifteen - twenty years of perfectly fixable QC issues. Due to proximity, FMIC works more closely with the Ensenada plant than with eastern manufactures, so if anything I would have expected better by now.

Seeing as how the issues don't effect playability, I do appreciate the evidence of hands-on craftsmanship. I don't a machine applied the wood filler. I can expect perfection, or I can accept that his is what happens when people hand make things at a certain price point.

 

[DreX]

Re: Fender MIM quality, a couple things to look out for

I also bought a Cabronita for next to nothing a few months ago from The Stratosphere, they had put a bunch of them together then dumped them real quick in a flash sale, and I fully expected it to be a mess! They were getting bad reviews and guy's on the forum had some pretty awful horror story's but I figured for the price if it was trash maybe I could turn it into a good project guitar or @ the very least use it for parts? When I took it out of the box & ran some scales I was almost floored, I don't know if it was just luck & I got one of the good ones or WTF but the thing was setup perfect! The action was super low, & the intonation was dead on, & it plays like butter! I've left it stock because I actually really like the Fidel'tron pickups, it's not a everyday guitar but a very cool thing to have in your arsenal? For light break up bluesy stuff it's my go to guitar!

I'm curious what sort of other problems have come up with Cabronitas. Someone said something about the toggle switch, but it's not as though the switch is specific to the Cabronita, it's a generic switch, so I didn't take too seriously.

I love the Cabronitas though, IMO they edge out actual Teles. The Fideli'trons are bright like Tele singles, but much richer tone-wise, and the controls / pick guard look even more to the point. The Custom Shop must have taken some inspiration from the Broadcaster prototypes:

 

[voggin]

Re: Fender MIM quality, a couple things to look out for

I don't think it's so much the country of origin as what each factory gets assigned to do.

I'm making up the numbers, so let's not haggle over them, but most companies reserve their American plants for their high-end stuff. So Fender will tell the US factory, "make me a tele. You can spend $400. We're going to sell it for $1000." Even with higher wages, that gives the US guys a lot of leeway in employee hours per guitar, sourcing better looking wood, etc. If they tell the Mexican plant, "build us a tele. Here's $150. We're going to sell it for $500." They're going to be under pressure to keep costs down and churn them out. Fender is also going to want to make a lot more of the $400 teles, because they have a bigger market for them than the pricier stuff, which will add to the time pressure. The profit per unit will be higher on the US stuff, and even higher on the custom shop tells (spend $600 and sell for 2K).

I bet if you gave the Mexican guys the same leeway as the US factory, they'd make an equally good guitar. The Mexicans also have to make do with lower cost hardware and electronics. Look at Fender Japan. When Japanese guitars in the late 60s early 70s were all about low price point, you got Teiscos and the like. When they went into the higher end, with Ibanez Artists and Yamaha SBGs, they almost put the US guys out of business.

I think it would be cool if Fender opened a Mexican Custom Shop. I'd love to see what those guys could do without the limitations inherent in a budget line.

 

[Kais]

Re: Fender MIM quality, a couple things to look out for

where did you buy from? I mean, MIM might cut some corners that MIA wouldn't usually cut. With that said, I play the hell out of my MIM strat, and no so much my MIA.

 

[treyhaislip]

Re: Fender MIM quality, a couple things to look out for

I understand what you are trying to say. However, it is not anything based on the ethnicity of the workers or the location of the factory that affects the quality of the outcome. It is the training, equipment being used and the company's policies towards cost cutting (quantity) versus quality. It is unfair to bring any other factors into the discussion.

Any individual is capable of taking pride in their work. That's the wild card. Sometimes we find that one guitar or that one anything that was made by somebody who took pride in what they were doing and it's obvious there is something special about it.

+1 to this, I know a lot of work done by Mexicans here in the States that are simply superb while others are not (I'm an accountant for a Construction Company) and the same is said for Americans and other ethnicities. The MIM Guitars do not have the same level of Quality Control as the Custom Shop and MIA Guitars. Its nothing against them by any means, they are budget guitars that can play and sound amazing.

I have a handmade Eastman E8D acoustic that sounds incredible and plays flawlessly. I personally put it up there with the Martins at the Guitar Center (always seem to be not as nice as the ones at a smaller shop...probably because less people have their grubby hands all over them lol) as far as tone is concerned. The Eastman is made in China and I would have never guessed it based off of the quality and tone. The Martin HD-28 has a much nicer neck and fretboard and the attention to detail is much nicer as well; however, the price is laughably lower (I paid $650 for mine, new but a demo model.)

 

[blueman335]

Re: Fender MIM quality, a couple things to look out for

I don't think it's so much the country of origin as what each factory gets assigned to do.

+1. It's the contracts a factory gets. If a guitar distributor wants something to sell in a lower price range, it's not going to get the parts or workmanship of a high-end model.

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: Fender MIM quality, a couple things to look out for

On original "blackguard" Fender single cutaway guitars, it was normal for the bottom of the neck pocket to protrude slightly beyond the edge of the neck. (Usually referred to as "router's hump".) This was the inevitable consequence of attaching a tapering neck to a body on which the neck pocket edge ran parallel to the centre line of the instrument.

 

[DreX]

Re: Fender MIM quality, a couple things to look out for

+1. It's the contracts a factory gets. If a guitar distributor wants something to sell in a lower price range, it's not going to get the parts or workmanship of a high-end model.

I don't see such issues from Japanese guitars at the same price point, which is five to seven hundred dollars. This isn't just price points, they need to fix these qc issues.