First Impressions of Cakewalk SONAR 6

[ratherdashing]

I like it!

Overall, it's excellent software. The user interface in particular is outstanding, which is very important in a DAW. There is no point in filling the system with features and tools if the user can't use them in an efficient manner. In terms of user experience, SONAR 6 kicks every other DAW in the nads ... and I haven't even started customizing the interface yet! SONAR 6 allows shortcut key AND right-click menu customization.

Here's a list of the features I'm enjoying so far:

- Take management: In SONAR 6, this is done with track layers. When you enable layers on a track, each take you do shows up as a "track within a track". You can mute and solo individual layers, or you can non-destructively silence specific sections of each layer to piece together a complete track. I really like this, because it is very easy to see which takes are used to make the track, and also very easy to change your mind about it.

- Track freezing/thawing: To save CPU resources, you can "freeze" a track that has a lot of processing (plug-ins, automation, etc.) on it. This creates a temporary mix-down of the track to a WAV file, thus eliminating the need for the additional processing. Unlike a real mixdown, a freeze can be undone. If you decide the track needs to be changed in some way, all you have to do is "thaw" it, and all the plug-in and automation editing is available again. Since I don't have a super pimp PC, this is a great feature for me.

- ReWire Support: In ProTools LE, I had to use Reason's mixer to mix all my Reason tracks down to a stereo out, which then fed a single stereo ProTools track. As anyone who's had to deal with a mixdown (or a mixer feeding another mixer) knows, this is a pain in the ass. SONAR 6 includes full support for ReWire, which means I can pipe up to 64 m-f-ing audio tracks from Reason direct to SONAR. This means each individual drum in ReDrum plus each synth etc. gets its own track in SONAR. I can also create a MIDI track in SONAR that feeds an instrument in Reason, then pipe that instrument's audio output back into a SONAR audio track! Glee!!!

There's much more, but I need to spend more time with it to really get into details.

 

[Carl762]

Re: First Impressions of Cakewalk SONAR 6

Good Range Report. I've been looking for info like this.

 

[Virtual Kevorkian]

Re: First Impressions of Cakewalk SONAR 6

Yeah, Sonar is a cool program, for sure.

Just make sure to turn off the 'dithering' setting on the I/O - I've heard people complaining about their recordings not sounding true, especially when using outboard gear, with the dithering engaged.

The stock plugins Sonar comes with are really cool, though. Definitely the best I've seen come with a program.

 

[Carl762]

Re: First Impressions of Cakewalk SONAR 6

Thanks for tip.

Just listened to Incognita, Cool!

Much more reading to do, and trust me, I want to sound as clean as possible, with minimal use of effects or even a whammy bar. My fingers are supposed to be the effects. I'm just no lead player yet.

That's the reason for my wanting and acquiring a somewhat primitive DAW of my own, using cool boxes with amp models and effects, drums, I'm having a great time. Entices me to practice, and lots (Black Box with Audacity on the computer).

Much to learn about recording, and I'm going to love it. I want serious software and I've always heard Cakewalk was good stuff. In the meantime Audacity is a nice notepad.

I'm starting to learn this Fender Strat replacement Seymour Duncan V I built out of the Ashes, off Craigslist (a body, neck, nothing else).

Early Fall, I'm going to start a from scratch full guitar deal built around a Floyd Rose trem I have in a drawer. I'll buy a neck from Warmoth or somebody for the first build.

I'm so hooked on guitars. Used to be guns.

 

[Carl762]

Re: First Impressions of Cakewalk SONAR 6

http://store.cakewalk.com/b2cus/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=10-CSHS6.00-30C

I'm owning it in one week.

I should at least polish AND PHOTO those guns this weekend.

 

[Al.C]

Re: First Impressions of Cakewalk SONAR 6

I recorded my classic rock clip currently posted on this forum with sonar 6. I go back to the earlier cakewalk programs and generally update every 2nd version. THis version has had several significant changes to functionality of the program I am am probably going to have to pull out the manual and hone up on some of the new stuff. I only use probably 10% of the programs potential.

 

[daemon barbeque]

Re: First Impressions of Cakewalk SONAR 6

Very good review!
Thanx alot!

How is the MIDI interface and possibilities ,Midi map and editing?

 

[ratherdashing]

Re: First Impressions of Cakewalk SONAR 6

Yeah, Sonar is a cool program, for sure.

Just make sure to turn off the 'dithering' setting on the I/O - I've heard people complaining about their recordings not sounding true, especially when using outboard gear, with the dithering engaged.

The stock plugins Sonar comes with are really cool, though. Definitely the best I've seen come with a program.

Thanks for the tip. I'm still tweaking everything trying to get the best quality/performance ratio out of it. I think I'll turn off the 64 bit engine until I get a hotter computer and/or a 64 bit OS.

The plug-ins are outstanding. I used Lexicon Pantheon (reverb) for the first time last night and nearly messed my pants. I have never used a more detailed-sounding reverb. Unfortunately it uses about 30% of my CPU ... which is why track freezing is so important!

I'm also a sucker for a good parametric EQ, and the Sonitus one is friggin' awesome.

Very good review!
Thanx alot!

How is the MIDI interface and possibilities ,Midi map and editing?

SONAR pwns all other DAW's when it comes to MIDI support. You can record MIDI and edit it note-by-note in piano roll view, music notation view, or even guitar fretboard! MIDI can be quantized, slip edited ... basically any type of editing you can do to audio can be done to MIDI as well. You can pipe your MIDI tracks to an external interface to drive your hardware, to a ReWire app, or to a Soft Synth in SONAR's virtual synth rack. There's also a "drum map" feature that lets you send specific notes to different hardware or software devices.

Other than a test here and there, I haven't made a "real" MIDI track yet, so I'll give a more constructive review later.

 

[daemon barbeque]

Re: First Impressions of Cakewalk SONAR 6

Thanks for the tip. I'm still tweaking everything trying to get the best quality/performance ratio out of it. I think I'll turn off the 64 bit engine until I get a hotter computer and/or a 64 bit OS.

The plug-ins are outstanding. I used Lexicon Pantheon (reverb) for the first time last night and nearly messed my pants. I have never used a more detailed-sounding reverb. Unfortunately it uses about 30% of my CPU ... which is why track freezing is so important!

I'm also a sucker for a good parametric EQ, and the Sonitus one is friggin' awesome.



SONAR pwns all other DAW's when it comes to MIDI support. You can record MIDI and edit it note-by-note in piano roll view, music notation view, or even guitar fretboard! MIDI can be quantized, slip edited ... basically any type of editing you can do to audio can be done to MIDI as well. You can pipe your MIDI tracks to an external interface to drive your hardware, to a ReWire app, or to a Soft Synth in SONAR's virtual synth rack. There's also a "drum map" feature that lets you send specific notes to different hardware or software devices.

Other than a test here and there, I haven't made a "real" MIDI track yet, so I'll give a more constructive review later.

that sounds descent!I was looking for the new cubase 4 the other day ,and i chatted about it with a sound engineer!But Sonar looks great for my needs.I think everything is more stable than Cubase ,so i should give it a try!

 

[ratherdashing]

Re: First Impressions of Cakewalk SONAR 6

that sounds descent!I was looking for the new cubase 4 the other day ,and i chatted about it with a sound engineer!But Sonar looks great for my needs.I think everything is more stable than Cubase ,so i should give it a try!

Everything? I guess you've never tried ProTools :angryfire oed: :banghead:

 

[Virtual Kevorkian]

Re: First Impressions of Cakewalk SONAR 6

that sounds descent!I was looking for the new cubase 4 the other day ,and i chatted about it with a sound engineer!But Sonar looks great for my needs.I think everything is more stable than Cubase ,so i should give it a try!

I personally have never had a problem with SX3, Nuendo 3, or Cubase 4 (what I'm using now). I prefer the drum editing and overall interface to Sonar, and work on a Mac, which could be the biggest reason.


As far as ProTools being unstable... I have to say I've never found it to be as such. I'm picking up an 002R this summer simply because PT is the most intuitive, versatile, and universally accepted DAW to work with. The only thing I wish it did better was midi... so I'll be composing in Cubase, tracking in PT, and mixing in PT.

 

[ratherdashing]

Re: First Impressions of Cakewalk SONAR 6

I personally have never had a problem with SX3, Nuendo 3, or Cubase 4 (what I'm using now). I prefer the drum editing and overall interface to Sonar, and work on a Mac, which could be the biggest reason.


As far as ProTools being unstable... I have to say I've never found it to be as such. I'm picking up an 002R this summer simply because PT is the most intuitive, versatile, and universally accepted DAW to work with. The only thing I wish it did better was midi... so I'll be composing in Cubase, tracking in PT, and mixing in PT.

It is NOT the most intuitive or versatile by any definition. It is the most accepted for the simple reason that it has been around the longest. ProTools has absolutely nothing going for it that SONAR and Cubase do not, unless you're willing to spend thousands of dollars on the |HD version, which itself is not perfect.

This is what I learned from hanging out on the PTLE Support forum: Digidesign is currently struggling with an ancient codebase and has completely failed to keep up with modern computer hardware. When they were bought out by Avid, the situation got worse, because Avid pushed them to get into the consumer market with the MBox etc. rather than using development time to update the code and fix the bugs. Now they are years behind the other DAW vendors in terms of power and features, and have a list of unresolved known issues as long as your arm.

From a strictly software standpoint (I'm not a professional record producer, but I am a software professional), PTLE is a hacked-together disaster. Yes, it works well IF you have the right hardware, and yes, it will give you good results, but tread carefully. The problems I speak of affect both the PC and Mac versions (though they manifest themselves in different ways), so don't assume you're in the clear just because you have a Mac.

I'm sure this goes without saying, but it's also more expensive.

You have been warned. Best of luck.

 

[Virtual Kevorkian]

Re: First Impressions of Cakewalk SONAR 6

After working with PT for a bit, Cubase feels a bit convoluted for doing the same stuff, from a strict audio standpoint. I also find it faster to edit in.

Versatile probably wasn't the right word - I'll give you that one.

That said, there are two things that Cubase can't do (not sure if Sonar can handle either), and PT does, that I really, really wish I could do right now: Printing to track, and sidechaining. That, combined with how amazing D-verb on drums sounds, and the fact that anything I do that will be released 'officially' will be mixed by someone else, is why I'm going to be picking up a PTLE setup. The 002R's are way cheap (now) and have pretty solid pre's/converters, as well as ADAT, SPDIF, and Word Clock expandability.

I only mentioned that I work on a Mac because Sonar is PC only .

 

[ratherdashing]

Re: First Impressions of Cakewalk SONAR 6

Understandable. Truthfully, I've never liked Cubase's interface. Of the three, SONAR wins hands down. For me, the transition from ProTools to SONAR was very quick. I easily found almost everything I used to do. For everything else, I searched Help and got the answer in one click. It's very well designed.

I forgot about sidechaining (probably because I have no need for it - I use automation to achieve the same thing). Forgive my ignorance, but I don't know what "printing to track" means ... can you explain?

Digidesign's hardware is very good, no doubt about it. I am still using the MBox in ASIO mode as my hardware I/O since I have zero complaints with it. I may go for something like the Presonus FirePod or the Lexicon Omega in the future, but for now the MBox is great.

The PC only aspect of SONAR was a big minus for me, since I intend to go with a Mac in the future, but that's looking to be quite a long ways off. Oh well - can't have it all I guess.

 

[Virtual Kevorkian]

Re: First Impressions of Cakewalk SONAR 6

I forgot about sidechaining (probably because I have no need for it - I use automation to achieve the same thing). Forgive my ignorance, but I don't know what "printing to track" means ... can you explain?

Digidesign's hardware is very good, no doubt about it. I am still using the MBox in ASIO mode as my hardware I/O since I have zero complaints with it. I may go for something like the Presonus FirePod or the Lexicon Omega in the future, but for now the MBox is great.

Oh man... automation for sidechaining would be hell for me. :laugh2: I generally use it to take snare out of the OH's, bring the toms out a bit more during longer runs, etc.

Printing to track is like a better, more sophisticated way of exporting a mixdown, but specifically to use in the existing mix.

Say I had a drum replacement program on the snare track. Instead of having it running the entire time and eating up RAM, I could print the sound the plugin is making to an entirely new track, or print the mix of the two sounds to a new track. I could combine different mics used to get a guitar tone into one track, two mono tracks of OH into one stereo, etc...

It's better than exporting a mixdown to disk , in that when you bounce, the summing bus of the program affects the mix, and it takes way longer to do.

Actually, the producers I've talked to, for the most part, will actually run a set of cables from their inputs to their outputs, and record the song to bounce later, as even after a step of D/A/D conversion, the sound is still truer than exporting.

I'd suggest looking for something high end than the FirePod - I've come to hate it's cheap preamps and A/D conversion , as well as the fact that it doesn't have Word Clock or ADAT connectivity.

 

[ratherdashing]

Re: First Impressions of Cakewalk SONAR 6

Printing to track is like a better, more sophisticated way of exporting a mixdown, but specifically to use in the existing mix.

Say I had a drum replacement program on the snare track. Instead of having it running the entire time and eating up RAM, I could print the sound the plugin is making to an entirely new track, or print the mix of the two sounds to a new track. I could combine different mics used to get a guitar tone into one track, two mono tracks of OH into one stereo, etc...

It's better than exporting a mixdown to disk , in that when you bounce, the summing bus of the program affects the mix, and it takes way longer to do.

Actually, the producers I've talked to, for the most part, will actually run a set of cables from their inputs to their outputs, and record the song to bounce later, as even after a step of D/A/D conversion, the sound is still truer than exporting.

Ah, I see. Read what I said in the original post about "track freezing" in SONAR - seems to be the equivalent of what you're talking about. You can freeze a synth return or a ReWire return, or even a bus - basically anything that produces an audio output can be frozen.

I'd suggest looking for something high end than the FirePod - I've come to hate it's cheap preamps and A/D conversion , as well as the fact that it doesn't have Word Clock or ADAT connectivity.

Thanks for the tip.

 

[Virtual Kevorkian]

Re: First Impressions of Cakewalk SONAR 6

Ah, I see. Read what I said in the original post about "track freezing" in SONAR - seems to be the equivalent of what you're talking about. You can freeze a synth return or a ReWire return, or even a bus - basically anything that produces an audio output can be frozen.

Not quite... this creates an actual WAV out of the plugin, VSTi, etc... so you can maniplate it later on without having the plugin use up your CPU.

Freezing tracks is way cool and all, but if you're trying to free up/clean up tracks, printing works best, and you can still edit the waveform all you want.

 

[MesaDCLP]

Re: First Impressions of Cakewalk SONAR 6

... this creates an actual WAV out of the plugin, VSTi, etc... so you can maniplate it later on without having the plugin use up your CPU.

That's what "bounce to track / clip" is for in Sonar.

Freezing lets you free up the CPU used to process the plugin/synth with out rendering it to an audio file. This is good for editing another track when the frozen one is close enough for mixing. You can unfreeze the track at anytime and modify the plugin/synth settings.

Once the track good enough for you, you bounce to clip or track. Once bounced, the plugin/synth cannot be edited as it is removed from the new track that will sound like the original when bouncing. Bouncing renders the track/clip to an audio file that can be edited further with eq, compression, etc...

 

[ratherdashing]

Re: First Impressions of Cakewalk SONAR 6

Not quite... this creates an actual WAV out of the plugin, VSTi, etc... so you can maniplate it later on without having the plugin use up your CPU.

Freezing tracks is way cool and all, but if you're trying to free up/clean up tracks, printing works best, and you can still edit the waveform all you want.

That's exactly what freezing does: it mixes the automation, plug-ins, take editing, etc. down to a WAV file on the disk and plays that back in place of what was in the track previously. In fact, it's a bit better because if you change your mind about something, you can thaw the track and keep messing around with it.

And yes, you can add plug-ins and make changes to a frozen track. When you thaw it, SONAR incorporates those changes in with the former plug-ins.

For example, let's say you put a compressor and an EQ on a track and freeze it. The compression and EQ processing are written to the WAV file. You then add fader automation and reverb to the frozen track. Then you decide you don't like the EQ and thaw the track: this reactivates the old plug-ins in addition to the reverb, and puts the old audio file back in place of the mixed-down WAV. Freeze it again, and the compression, EQ, fader automation, and reverb are all mixed down. Make sense?

 

[Virtual Kevorkian]

Re: First Impressions of Cakewalk SONAR 6

That's what "bounce to track / clip" is for in Sonar.

Sweet, Sonar does have exactly what I'm talking about, then.


RD; That's the difference between Sonar and Cubase for freezing, then. Cubase literally freezes the track - you can't do anything but alter the gain level. It sounds to me like Sonar treats freezing like printing to track, albeit on the same track.

That said, it still isn't going to allow you to combine multiple tracks into one track.