First PRS now Tokai - Gibson Lawsuits!!

Norman_T

New member
Gibson fights to keep classic guitar its own
By ROB JOHNSON
Staff Writer


The guitarist's fingers slide above the unmistakable trapezoidal inlays, down toward the joining of the neck and solid body, and find the single cutaway, the gracefully curved notch into which Lester Polfus knew he could move his hand and make the highest notes shimmer.
Farther down are the dual pickups. The traditional body finishes are the Goldtop and the Flametop, both punctuated by four control knobs arranged in a distinctive diamond pattern. The world knows Polfus and his iconic creation by the same name: Les Paul.

The instrument's manufacturer is Gibson Guitars, and the Nashville company's rivals acknowledge that the solid-body electric guitar the company unveiled in 1952 was transcendent. It is ''the flagship of flagships,'' said one.

Some of the world's most influential rock 'n' rollers wield it; millions have been sold to those who crave its singular, curvaceous allure, and for decades other manufacturers have offered instruments that have veered ever so close to being outright knockoffs.

Gibson did not manufacture the Les Paul during much of the 1960s, and it did not apply for a trademark registration until 1987. By then other manufacturers were using the shape that defined the Les Paul look. Still, Gibson is now aggressively defending its trademark for the Les Paul and other models by turning to federal courts

Long-running battle

Late last month, Gibson filed suit in the Middle District of Tennessee against Japanese manufacturer Tokai. And it is still waging a long-running legal battle with Paul Reed Smith, a highly regarded guitar manufacturer. In 2000, Paul Reed Smith introduced the Singlecut, a model it says it created to satisfy dealers who loved the Les Paul but despised Gibson.
U.S. District Judge William J. Haynes granted summary judgment to Gibson earlier this year. Paul Reed Smith has indicated it might appeal, but the case is still headed for a scheduled July trial to determine damages.

Now Tokai is being sued over its ''Love Rock'' guitar, which Gibson says is a Les Paul look-alike. Gibson also is taking issue with other models in Tokai's line that it says mimic copyrighted designs of Gibson's Flying V series, SG series, ES series and Explorer series, court records show.

Since 2000, Gibson has tried to stop Tokai's sales of what Gibson calls knockoffs in Japan, Canada and Europe. Gibson contends that it learned in May that Tokai had secured an American distributor and a handful of sellers. The Gibson suit also names as defendants New Jersey-based Godlyke Distributing Inc., The Guitar Cellar of Lexington, Ky., and Musictoyz.com of Maine.

The Tennessean was unable to reach Tokai, Godlyke or the Guitar Cellar for comment.

Ted Rausch of Musictoyz, while initially uttering comments unprintable in a family newspaper, politely declined a reporter's questions about the suit, pending the advice of a still-to-be-hired attorney.

Rules in Nashville's federal court highly restrict what parties may say to the press about cases currently under litigation, and Gibson attorney Jay S. Bowen of Bowen, Riley, Warnock & Jacobson declined to comment about the suits.

(To be continued)
 
Re: First PRS now Tokai - Gibson Lawsuits!!

Yet Haynes' Paul Reed Smith decision is reverberating through the guitar world, a world that simultaneously acknowledges the legendary status of the Les Paul and instrument makers' centuries-old practice of borrowing elements of the most successful designs, trademarked or not.

It's the look

Perhaps more than with other instruments on the market, looks matter when it comes to guitars.

''You need cosmetics to it, and so it is an issue that has disproportionate significance for the guitar business,'' said Brian Majeski, editor of Music Trades magazine. ''A guitar is very visible, and if you take a look at a lot of other instruments — I mean every violin you buy today is in effect a copy of a Stradivarius.''

Todd Austin plays guitar around town. He is also the electric guitar sales manager at Nashville's Corner Music, which does not sell Gibsons.

''The Les Paul. I don't know what it is, but damn it, it's got it,'' said Austin.

Still, he's a bigger fan of Paul Reed Smith's Singlecut, especially of its quality. ''I'm not saying that just because I sell PRS.''

''PRS makes a great guitar. If they're not perfect, they won't ship them. They'll ship them from their factory in Maryland all the way over to us over here in Nashville. We'll pull it out of the box. And they're in tune.''

He considers the Tokai a decent instrument, albeit one that's much cheaper.

''Some people are going to be a fan of Gibson guitars, no matter what,'' said Greg Krochman, whose Classic Ax repair shop is tucked into the rear of a converted Music Row bungalow.

''But this copying business has been going on forever with musical instruments.''

Some designs just work better, and later incarnations invariably show the influences of their successful predecessors. There are bound to be derivatives, echoes of earlier riffs and designs.
 
Re: First PRS now Tokai - Gibson Lawsuits!!

It is important to remark that anything decided in the court will only affect on the U.S. market.

PRS and Tokai world maket will be intact.
 
Re: First PRS now Tokai - Gibson Lawsuits!!

Design details debated

Gibson charges in its Paul Reed Smith and Tokai lawsuits that the defendants manufacture instruments that unlawfully mimic the distinctive features and ''trade dress'' of guitars such as the Les Paul.

The litigation features exhaustive descriptions of knob placement and cutaway features, fretboard inlays and washers behind toggle switches. There are photos and diagrams, references to pegheads and pickguards, the details that coalesce into something distinctly Les Pauline.

Paul Reed Smith argues in its countersuit against Gibson that its Singlecut is distinct from the Les Paul.

It points out the Singlecut's distinctive three-dimensional scoop in the cutaway, the lack of contrasting color striping around the body and neck, different headstock colors, and a vertical rather than horizontal logo.

It also notes that during most of the 1960s, Gibson did not make a Les Paul, giving other manufacturers the opportunity to adopt its design.

At the heart of the dispute is the legal question of whether a buyer is confused by the alleged counterfeit.

Haynes noted that at first glance, several experienced eyes initially mistook the Singlecut for the Les Paul. He also wrote that prospective purchasers of guitars in the $1,800-to-$3,000 price range were unlikely to keep holding that impression as they head for the cash register.

''The Court notes that any confusion would be at the initial viewing of the guitars. Personal inspection of these high price guitars that are sold with clear markings of their origins would dispel the initial confusion,'' Haynes wrote.

Nevertheless, he wrote that ''given the striking similarity of the PRS Singlecut to Gibson's Les Paul and the instant market recognition of Gibson's Les Paul, the Court concludes that initial confusion would occur in the marketplace between parties' products as to the 'Singlecut' guitar's source. This factor favors Gibson.''

Haynes also relied on transcripts from Paul Reed Smith product-development meetings. The company's executives noted that some of their retailers had complained about Gibson and wanted to fill a void on the electric-guitar marketplace.
 
Re: First PRS now Tokai - Gibson Lawsuits!!

''We can't ignore the fact that people will say this is PRS's Les Paul,'' one company official said at a 1999 meeting to discuss the proposed single cutaway.

''Isn't the whole idea that dealers are mad at Gibson?'' Smith himself said moments later. ''Look to us and say, 'Can I replace Gibson business with PRS?' Yes, but not really ... PRS will put a final nail in Gibson's sales with a single cutaway. PRS will have a complete line. This guitar is about keeping dealers calm.''

Haynes ultimately concluded that PRS knew that the Les Paul would be subject to trademark protection.

''In the Court's view, the notes of the several PRS meetings reflect PRS's intent to imitate Gibson's Les Paul so as to enter the market and exploit Gibson's dispute with its retailer that wanted a substitute cutaway guitar,'' Haynes wrote. He does not fault PRS for competing, but he added that the company had never manufactured a single cutaway and had never manufactured a four-knob array on its guitars.

PRS knew it was imitating Les Paul, Haynes found as he issued a summary judgment in Gibson's favor.

Against this background comes Gibson's latest suit.

Tokai's design, right down to the script on the pegheads, is startlingly similar to Gibson's.

Gibson charges that these imitations extend across a wide range of guitars, not just the Les Paul.

Gibson has not always protected its designs well, said Music Trades' Majeski, and now the company is fighting to defend its most sacred designs, designs that some contend have already passed close to the realm of public domain in the same way as, say, drivers are used to having the gearshift on the right, the light switch on the left, the gas pedal down below and the steering wheel in the middle.

''The guys at Gibson sit there, and they realize that their trademark is the most important thing that they have,'' Majeski said. ''It's more important than a factory in Nashville. That's it. That's what makes them special. That gives them a reason to exist. And so they're very determined to protect it. I think that this is not an attitude that was shared by previous regimes.''
 
Re: First PRS now Tokai - Gibson Lawsuits!!

so are they gonna sue the entire country of Japan? There are a lot of makers over here producing exact copies of the Gibson guitar... Fenders too.
 
Re: First PRS now Tokai - Gibson Lawsuits!!

It does kind of sicken me that Gibson is doing this but I have to admit, sadly it won't stop me from buying a Gibson. In fact I purchased a 2003 LP standard that is just about flawless, plays, sounds great. To me that is worth the price of admission. I do also agree that PRS does a great job and has very modern playing and sounding guitar. i hope to have one someday. Vibe and mojo are so important in a guitar and LPs do that for me. Without it, there is nothing.

what about all the other guitars that take there design and heritage from the LP? Dean Evo Premium? ESP EC series? Even the Dean hardtail pulls a little from Gibson and from PRS.

Will the SC be discontinued as a result of the lawsuit?
 
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Re: First PRS now Tokai - Gibson Lawsuits!!

Guys,

My apologies for the 4 separate posts on this but I thought you might be interested in the whole story rather than going to a link. I actually think its is pathetic of Gibson trying it on Tokai but after their apparent success with PRS then why not.

Although Gibson's ruling against PRS only applies in the US for the singlecut it is going to be difficult against companies like Tokai and other Japan/Korean companies after all they are not based in the US! Fender did have some joy with Tokai and they had to change their headstocks. For those of you old enough to remember Tokai brought out some very good strat copies in the '70's and even had their logo resembling that of Fender from a few feet away it looked like Fender. In fact some of these go on the market for quite a few bucks.

How will it all turn out? I don't honestly know. All I can say is that I am glad I got my Tokai LP and I may just keep hold of it until it starts to get into mega buck territory.
 
Re: First PRS now Tokai - Gibson Lawsuits!!

Norman_T said:
Guys,

My apologies for the 4 separate posts on this but I thought you might be interested in the whole story rather than going to a link. I actually think its is pathetic of Gibson trying it on Tokai but after their apparent success with PRS then why not.

Although Gibson's ruling against PRS only applies in the US for the singlecut it is going to be difficult against companies like Tokai and other Japan/Korean companies after all they are not based in the US! Fender did have some joy with Tokai and they had to change their headstocks. For those of you old enough to remember Tokai brought out some very good strat copies in the '70's and even had their logo resembling that of Fender from a few feet away it looked like Fender. In fact some of these go on the market for quite a few bucks.

How will it all turn out? I don't honestly know. All I can say is that I am glad I got my Tokai LP and I may just keep hold of it until it starts to get into mega buck territory.

Norm, does this mean the PRS singlecut will be discontinued????? That is annoying because I was saving for one!!

I guess I'll have to go the Dean Hardtail route.
 
Re: First PRS now Tokai - Gibson Lawsuits!!

papersoul said:
Norm, does this mean the PRS singlecut will be discontinued????? That is annoying because I was saving for one!!

I guess I'll have to go the Dean Hardtail route.
Rich,

No - I think PRS will play it all the way until finally something will give either having it overturned legally or they reach some sort of financial settlement. As far as I am aware they are still churning out singlecuts and I think you will be able to get one or even come over to the UK/Europe if all else fails!!
 
Re: First PRS now Tokai - Gibson Lawsuits!!

papersoul said:
Norm, does this mean the PRS singlecut will be discontinued????? That is annoying because I was saving for one!!

I guess I'll have to go the Dean Hardtail route.

I don't think you're going to have to worry about that. I still see PRS Singlecuts on the shelves for decent prices, so I don't see them pulling the line anytime soon. After all, it's one of the better selling guitars they have out and I'm sure they'll find some way out of all the damages Gibson's doing to them.

I just wish Gibson overall would make better products. Quality control completely blows and that's unacceptable. I will admit that a few guitars I've played (and the LP Standard I own - chose it out of a ridiculous amount, are incredible instruments). However, finding a Gibson that doesn't have any flaws is very difficult. If you're going to sue half the world, atleast put out a good product. Jeez...
 
Re: First PRS now Tokai - Gibson Lawsuits!!

yes i want to know if the single cut is still going to be sold? Or wil they dis continue it?
 
Re: First PRS now Tokai - Gibson Lawsuits!!

Gibson...Gibson...Gibson...If I hear that name once more Im going to snap lol. I hate the way Gibson makes you pay so much for something because their name is on it. Personally, I would rather support a company like Hamer, or Godin. You can buy high quality products at bottom rate prices from both of these companies, Yes they do have their "Gibson" prices on certain things like the Hamer USA guitars, but They also have some quality stuff for low low prices. Even companies like Tokai, They sell a Love Rock les paul copy for $1100 CDN, I checked the guitar out myself and compared it to a Gibson Les Paul for $4700 CDN. People argue the Tokai is not as durable as the Gibson, or the woods arent as high quality. But for me, That little difference in tone(which really is a very little difference) is not worth $3600 freakin dollars.
 
Re: First PRS now Tokai - Gibson Lawsuits!!

Glad I bought my Tokai Love Rock 59 Replica back in 2001 now...Great guitar...Probably be worth a couple a bucks,plus she's a lefty! YEAH..... ;O)

jOHN
 
Re: First PRS now Tokai - Gibson Lawsuits!!

I avoid Gibson and PRS like the plague.

Something about my punk rock upbringing keeps telling me to avoid everything that's popular. I bought an Epi Gothic LP Studio, but that's because everyone else seemed to be want Mustangs and Jaguars (that, and none of my friends liked the Epi).

I'm kinda two sided on this issue. Part of me says that it's right for Gibson to defend it's copyright and protect it's designs. The other part of me says that Gibson is being a party pooper.

Before, Gibson really didn't have to worry much, because their guitars were pretty superior to their cloning competition. But now that their competition is producing equal or superior products and half the cost or less.....

I'd like to add that the Godin single cut rocks, and their new Freeway series (Super Strat types) play pretty hot.
 
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Re: First PRS now Tokai - Gibson Lawsuits!!

I don't understand what the fuss is all about. Gibson has the right to protect it's market share just as any other company in any industry. Here is a wake up call to all Americans: YOU LIVE IN A CAPITALISTIC SOCIETY!

How can you be surprised when companies take actions for financial reasons? They are not in business to lose money nor do they exist to make you feel good about them or yourselves. If you think this then the advertising department has really done a great job of brainwashing you into BUYING into the illusion.

People, just keep it real when you read articles like this. I'm not pro-corporation or pro-consumer, I'm just trying to be pro-reality.
 
Re: First PRS now Tokai - Gibson Lawsuits!!

Hey, not that I agree with everything that Gibson does or makes (far from it), but if someone were copying MY designs and profiting LARGELY from it, I would think I would be entitled to, and would want a chunk of it.

You can't blame Gibson for wanting to protect what is theirs. The look of a Les Paul is undeniably Gibson.

I love the Tokais and many of those Japanese lawsuits (that's an "Orville by Gibson" 62 re-issue SG in my Avatar there - great guitar), but I have always wondered how they got away with it in this country.

My 2 cents.

:D
 
Re: First PRS now Tokai - Gibson Lawsuits!!

If Gibson would spend more time on quality control and realistic pricing and less time in the courts and moving factories around like monopoly pieces, then the world would be a better place. Let's all join hands now. :)
 
Re: First PRS now Tokai - Gibson Lawsuits!!

I'll never buy a %¤"&%"# Gibson that was not made in the 50's or 60's.
That new The Emperors new clothes they make is just pooh.
At least Fender makes real highend stuff in their Customshop.
 
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