Fishman Fluence Modern - at a loss

[alex1fly]

Two weeks ago I picked up an 8 string guitar that came with Fishman Fluence Modern pickups. Probably going to return it - the store has a liberal no-questions-asked return policy. But I'm going through various last-ditch efforts to understand the instrument before getting an RMA, and thought I'd see what y'all think about the Fluence Moderns. There's a bit of discussion in the archives here, lots of discussion elsewhere.

Honestly I'm at a loss as to what to do with these pickups. They're really pretty weird. Regular mode has more mids than I've ever heard in any guitar sound - even turning my amp mids all the way down there's still loads of mids in the sound. Very snarly and nasal. Passive mode is a bit more balanced, they breathe a bit more and the mids come down to a point where the tone is pleasant. But I'm really not experiencing the hype - amazing clarity and note separation under high gain or above-and-beyond responsiveness. They are clearer under high gain than say my 57 Classics but not moreso than my 85/15 or Strat pickups or Tele pickups or Squier WRHBs or PAF Pro or even the no-name generic HB in my Chinese 7 string. And they're HOT. Like, hotter than anything I've ever played. High gain settings plus guitar volume up makes for a driven sound that's really pretty unpleasant. Guitar volume down helps the sound breathe but nothing I do in my amp or pedals gives me good chunk sound. Folks on other sites heap praise on these pickups for metal playing - maybe they shine at stage volumes? Maybe I'm not an active/hot pickup guy? Maybe I haven't explored the coil splitting/voices/gain switches or pickup height enough? Honestly if the instrument was more comfortable maybe I'd tweak it more but I'd hate to accidently void its returnability.

 

[Securb]

I have not played the 8-string version but have experience with the 6-string Modern Fluence pickups I did not find them to be nasely. Is the guitar new or used? I am wondering if someone made mods. Secondly, you might want to DM SDUGF member @frankfalbo he was on the development team for the Fluence pickups.

 

[Hehasthejazzhands]

It's a complaint I've always heard with the Moderns. Voice 1 can have a stupid amount of midrange and have a cocked-wah sound with certain amps and pedals. One of the reasons I went back to EMGs when I tried them.

 

[alex1fly]

It's a complaint I've always heard with the Moderns. Voice 1 can have a stupid amount of midrange and have a cocked-wah sound with certain amps and pedals. One of the reasons I went back to EMGs when I tried them.

Interesting I haven't heard that about the Moderns. Funny because I've heard that cocked-wah description about the JB, the PAF Pro, and the Norton, and have used all those pickups but didn't hear that sound. However I'll definitely attest that in my setup the Moderns are basically all mids. Not a bad thing, just different. And when I thwack and quickly mute that low string, it is absolutely Djent City Broh.

 

[Top-L]

Interesting I haven't heard that about the Moderns. Funny because I've heard that cocked-wah description about the JB, the PAF Pro, and the Norton, and have used all those pickups but didn't hear that sound. However I'll definitely attest that in my setup the Moderns are basically all mids. Not a bad thing, just different. And when I thwack and quickly mute that low string, it is absolutely Djent City Broh.

Maybe they were designed for kids who dial their amps to have zero mids?

I watched a youtube video last night comparing the Fluence Moderns to an EMG57. They were aggressive and trebly in comparison to the EMGs. Sounded like a can of bees.

My only thought is that maybe there is an on board preamp that allows you to adjust the output gain like an EMG PA-2 does. Its worth a look to see if it comes wired with a preamp. Also check battery voltage.

 

[nexion218]

^EMG57 is da real deal, if my opinion matters. Baffling why EMG doesnt push them more in their campaigns.

Not familiar with the Fishmans, but I had a similar experience with the 7 string versions of the EMG 81/85 set. Through trial and error I've come to learn that I do not like the 81/85 one bit, but the 7 string version was even worse, just unusable to me... Stupid hot and lacking any body to it. I couldn't get a palm muted triplet on the D string to sound anything more than pick scratch. And we're not talking about a cheapo guitar either, but an E-II Horizon...

I might be wrong, but I guess no matter how hard the company tells us "its the 7/8/9 string version of X pickup", it is just physically impossible to be true. Magnet, wire, winding all have to be different due to the bigger size of the pickup compared to the 6 stringer.

That being said, I am pretty sure that at stage volumes they fare much-much better. the percieved loudness of bass frequencies is way lower in our ears. What sounds great at home is almost alway too much on a roaring rig.

 

[nexion218]

Did you end up trying different pickups in it?

Yup, EMG 57/66. Completely happy camper. I still prefer passives, but from now on these will be my active pup of choice. Moderate output (at least compared to the 81), alnico magnets, usable cleans and it actually has bottom end even at bedroom.volumes. Still tight, still EMG but way more musical sounding. And I got enough gainz on tap in my pedals, so I can always add more, but there aint much to be done about an 81 already clipping b4 the aignal ever leaves the guitar....

 

[Iron1]

I'd almost think something was mis-wired or there was some other assembly defect. I've never played an 8 string, but have Fluence Open Cores in a Jackson HT7 and they're absolutely incredible - with palm mute/chugs for days in either bridge pup voicing. Normally either run it thru my Axe FX w/SLO100 Lead or my Jet City JCA100hdm tube amp, but either way never experienced what you're describing. Since you mention RMA, I'm guessing that means no taking it to the store and trying another one to see if they both behave the same?

 

[alex1fly]

Maybe they were designed for kids who dial their amps to have zero mids?

I watched a youtube video last night comparing the Fluence Moderns to an EMG57. They were aggressive and trebly in comparison to the EMGs. Sounded like a can of bees.

My only thought is that maybe there is an on board preamp that allows you to adjust the output gain like an EMG PA-2 does. Its worth a look to see if it comes wired with a preamp. Also check battery voltage.

Maybe so. I mean it nails a certain modern metal sound to the T. Absolutely. Also the guitar itself is a very warm, woody, mid-forward sound acoustically, so I'm not going to fault the pickups for giving me a mid heavy sound. And there are some gain controls on the bottom on the pickups, according to Fishman's manual. Would be worth experimenting with! Also wiring up a second switch to do coil split (in addition to the existing switch which does Voice 1/Voice2)

 

[alex1fly]

I'd almost think something was mis-wired or there was some other assembly defect. I've never played an 8 string, but have Fluence Open Cores in a Jackson HT7 and they're absolutely incredible - with palm mute/chugs for days in either bridge pup voicing. Normally either run it thru my Axe FX w/SLO100 Lead or my Jet City JCA100hdm tube amp, but either way never experienced what you're describing. Since you mention RMA, I'm guessing that means no taking it to the store and trying another one to see if they both behave the same?

Some quick Googling is showing that the Open Cores are their Classic line which are more traditionally voiced. Those are probably a better place to start for someone wanting to dip into the Fishman world - my slightly educated opinion.

 

[Artie]

Some quick Googling is showing that the Open Cores are their Classic line which are more traditionally voiced. Those are probably a better place to start for someone wanting to dip into the Fishman world - my slightly educated opinion.

That's exactly the pair I got from Frank on his recommendation. Can't wait to get them installed.

 

[bloughlin16]

@OP your experience with them mirrors my own, and I've tried multiple guitars that have them. I do not get the hype at all.

 

[Iron1]

Some quick Googling is showing that the Open Cores are their Classic line which are more traditionally voiced. Those are probably a better place to start for someone wanting to dip into the Fishman world - my slightly educated opinion.

I knew they were voiced a bit different, but didn't know it was that drastic...

 

[Hehasthejazzhands]

I knew they were voiced a bit different, but didn't know it was that drastic...

IME:
Modern Voice 1: EMG 81-85 set but with more mids and less lows
Modern Voice 2: Kind of a blend of a Duncan Distortion and Bill Lawrence L500XL in the bridge. Don't really recall how I felt about the neck

Classic Voice 1: Super-bright PAF set
Classic Voice 2: JB/Jazz set with more controlled lows and mids, and a brighter high end.

Extremely different sounds, and I prefer the Classics.

 

[nexion218]

Modern Voice 1: EMG 81-85 set but with more mids and less lows

Ouch. That hurts my ears even without ever hearing them...

 

[Artie]

Not sure if this will be helpful, or relevant, but while looking for BC Rich Warlock info, I ran across this video. This Warlock comes with Fluence Moderns, and he goes through their different voicings. He makes them sound good. You can skip all the Warlock info, and jump to around 6:30 to hear the pickup voicings.

 

[Top-L]

Not sure if this will be helpful, or relevant, but while looking for BC Rich Warlock info, I ran across this video. This Warlock comes with Fluence Moderns, and he goes through their different voicings. He makes them sound good. You can skip all the Warlock info, and jump to around 6:30 to hear the pickup voicings.

Sounds good here.

I generally have to remind myself that the people who design these things aren't dumb, they wouldn't be as popular as they are if they were junk.

Mid forward is really nice for solos. They almost seem to have a chopped treble in this demo.

 

[alex1fly]

Sounds good here.

I generally have to remind myself that the people who design these things aren't dumb, they wouldn't be as popular as they are if they were junk.

Mid forward is really nice for solos. They almost seem to have a chopped treble in this demo.

Definitely sounds good here. As the OP said I bet it really shines in a band context where you're competing for sonic space.