flat 5th/raised 7th lesson

[DankStar]

Sometimes it helps me to understand stuff if I try to explain it. I'm no theory expert, but I do think about it when it comes time to work on a solo. Let me know of any mistakes in the below lesson, or any tips/licks you'd like to share. If I get time, I'll record the lick at the end at the speed it's meant to be played. Hope it helps anyone trying to learn the George Lynch style of soloing!

Flat 5th/Raised 7th Lesson:

So I've been trying to 1.) play more out of the box (of modal playing) and 2.) break my repetetive phrasing ruts. I've been looking into George Lynch's style of the "flat 5th, raised 7th" idea using the E natural minor scale as a springboard.

Start with the E Natural minor (E aeolian): E, F#, G, A, B, C, D:

E||---------------------------------------------------------------12--14--15-|
B||------------------------------------------------12--13--15----------------|
G||---------------------------------11--12--14-------------------------------|
D||------------------------12--14---------------------------------------------|
A||-------------12-14-15-----------------------------------------------------|
E||--12-14-15----------------------------------------------------------------|


Now, flat the 5th, raise the 7th: B becomes Bb, D becomes D#:

E||----------------------------------------------------------11--12--15-|
B||------------------------------------------------11---15--------------|
G||----------------------------------12--14--15------------------------|
D||--------------------------13--14-------------------------------------|
A||---------------12--13------------------------------------------------|
E||--11--12--15-------------------------------------------------------|

A typical run I always use that is way in the box:

E||-12--15--14--12------14--12----------12-----------------------------|
B||-------------------15----------15--13------15--13--12--15--13--12--|
G||-----------------------------------------------------------------------|
D||----------------------------------------------------------------------|
A||----------------------------------------------------------------------|
E||----------------------------------------------------------------------|


E||-------------------------------------------------------------------|
B||------13--12----------12------------------------------------------|
G||--14----------14--12------14--12--11(~~~)-----------------------|
D||-------------------------------------------------------------------|
A||-------------------------------------------------------------------|
E||-------------------------------------------------------------------|

Here's a lick I came up with last night that employs an old trick of mine plus an atypical (but formulaic) descending pattern at the end and the use some of the flat 5th/raised 7th optional notes. The descending run is quite different from what I normally do, and I'm still trying to play it at the right speed with accuracy. You pretty much have to use alternate picking:

E||---------------------------------------------------------------------------|
B||--------------------12--15--11--15--12--15--11--15--12--15--11--15--|
G||------12--14--15---------------------------------------------------------|
D||--14---------------------------------------------------------------------|
A||--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
E||--------------------------------------------------------------------------|

E||--------------------|-------------------------------------------------------|
B||-12--15--11--15---|--11--15--12----------11------------------------------|
G||-------------------|---------------14--12-------14-----------12-----------|
D||-------------------|----------------------------------14--12-------14-------|
A||-------------------|----------------------------------------------------14----|
E||-------------------|-------------------------------------------------------|

E||-------------------------------------------------------------------|
B||-------------------------------------------------------------------|
G||-------------------------------------------------------------------|
D||------12-----------------------------------------------------------|
A||--13-------12-------------------------------------------------------|
E||------------------15--12(~~~)-----------------------------------------|

 

[Vetteboy]

Re: flat 5th/raised 7th lesson

Neat little riff...one suggestion on the end perhaps:

E||-----------------|---------------------------------------------------|
B||-12--15--11--15-|-11--15--12---------------------------------------|
G||-----------------|-------------14--12--15--14----------12-----------|
D||-----------------|-----------------------------14--12------14-------|
A||-----------------|---------------------------------------------14----|
E||-----------------|---------------------------------------------------|

I'm at my desk at work right now, but playing an imaginary guitar it feels like that would fall under my hand a little better. I'm curious to try it later today.

A great exercise in alternate picking is the beginning of Morse's 'Tumeni Notes'...that's one of my daily practice runs.

 

[DankStar]

Re: flat 5th/raised 7th lesson

interesting altered fingering, hope you dig the lick when you try it out on the axe!

any links to morse's dealio tabbed? no way I could figure something like that out by ear.

 

[Vetteboy]

Re: flat 5th/raised 7th lesson

interesting altered fingering, hope you dig the lick when you try it out on the axe!

any links to morse's dealio tabbed? no way I could figure something like that out by ear.

Just seems more natural to me to have the second finger on the 12, not sure why.


Found a link to Tumeni Notes here...pretty sure this is the same way I play it:

http://www.guitaretab.com/m/morse-steve/12955.html

Disregard the comment about sweep picking...the whole piece is alternate picked.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEnmpVFD2W0

The lead after the arpeggiated section is one of my favorite things to play as well.

 

[DankStar]

Re: flat 5th/raised 7th lesson

Just seems more natural to me to have the second finger on the 12, not sure why.


Found a link to Tumeni Notes here...pretty sure this is the same way I play it:

http://www.guitaretab.com/m/morse-steve/12955.html

Disregard the comment about sweep picking...the whole piece is alternate picked.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEnmpVFD2W0

The lead after the arpeggiated section is one of my favorite things to play as well.

woah

 

[DankStar]

Re: flat 5th/raised 7th lesson

oops, messed up the tab for the flat 5th/raised 7th - fixed.

also note - the end lick is more of a hybrid of the original and flat 5th ones, and doesn't really follow any "rules."

man, tab like this really changes appearance from computer to computer; I'll need to use a different method next time!

 

[Vetteboy]

Re: flat 5th/raised 7th lesson

oops, messed up the tab for the flat 5th/raised 7th - fixed.

also note - the end lick is more of a hybrid of the original and flat 5th ones.

man, tab like this really changes appearance from computer to computer; I'll need to use a different method next time!

I think what you're looking for is the "CODE" tag, use it like any other formatting tag when typing. It changes to a monospace font which makes the numbers and dashes use the same amount of space:

E||---------------------------------------------------------------------------|
B||--------------------12--15--11--15--12--15--11--15--12--15--11--15--|
G||------12--14--15---------------------------------------------------------|
D||--14---------------------------------------------------------------------|
A||--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
E||--------------------------------------------------------------------------|

E||--------------------|-------------------------------------------------------|
B||-12--15--11--15---|--11--15--12----------11------------------------------|
G||-------------------|---------------14--12-------14-----------12-----------|
D||-------------------|----------------------------------14--12-------14-------|
A||-------------------|----------------------------------------------------14----|
E||-------------------|-------------------------------------------------------|

E||-------------------------------------------------------------------|
B||-------------------------------------------------------------------|
G||-------------------------------------------------------------------|
D||------12-----------------------------------------------------------|
A||--13-------12-------------------------------------------------------|
E||------------------15--12(~~~)-----------------------------------------|

 

[cream123]

Re: flat 5th/raised 7th lesson

I was under the impression that a dom7 was referred to as a b7, and that a natural 7th is the major 7th


edit: i forgot that we are in Aeolian

 

[PVFan]

Re: flat 5th/raised 7th lesson

some trivia:

minor key -> flat the 5th, raise to dominate 7th = 3rd mode of Hungarian Major

so if doing this to E minor, and playing over a C bass line (there are no "known" chords for this scale), you are playing C Hungarian Major. If playing over an E bass line, this is no scale or mode "known" to mankind (except Mr. Lynch, heretofore, I guess) -- or at least, it's never been named, which is amazing really. After hundreds and hundreds of years it seems like every possible combination of notes has been called something by somebody. I love scales that aren't "known" to mankind (have never been named) -- it's like the freedom to make stuff up knowing you're breaking all the rules from the get-go. Every time I think I've found one (using 6 to 9 notes) it always turns out to be some weird 9-tone scale, Taishikicho scale, Ichikosucho scale, or something from ancient Persia that somebody made "known" somehow, or, at least was named something by someone.

So I guess George likes to do this to his E minor licks:

C Hungarian Major - C,D#,E,F#,G,A,A# (1,#2,3,#4,5,6,b7)

spelled like this E,F#,G,A,A#,C,D# = nothing that has been named. And that is really cool, what with hundreds of scales/modes that have already been named using combinations of notes from the 12-tone system.

Call it the Lynch Scale. I like this tool for seeing stuff like this:
http://www.chordsandscales.co.uk/finder/
http://www.chordsandscales.co.uk/viewer/

Great thread.

 

[PVFan]

Re: flat 5th/raised 7th lesson

and this is very metal (or very jazz, take your pick), because if in E, you've got the tritone (flatted 5th), and metal/jazz is all about tritones, and you've got that wide step-and-a-half interval between C and Eb, which gives it that neo-classical, harmonic minor-ish, Yngwie voicing. And the minor 3rd keeps it all dark.

What an eeeevil scale. I'm glad I read this.

 

[DankStar]

Re: flat 5th/raised 7th lesson

and this is very metal (or very jazz, take your pick), because if in E, you've got the tritone (flatted 5th), and metal/jazz is all about tritones, and you've got that wide step-and-a-half interval between C and Eb, which gives it that neo-classical, harmonic minor-ish, Yngwie voicing. And the minor 3rd keeps it all dark.

What an eeeevil scale. I'm glad I read this.

hehe, glad you like it, and thanks for the links and insight on the mystery of the Hungarian Major (which in itself is odd, because we in metal typically for that "minor" sound). that scale tool is very handy - I typically run to a few books I use and flip pages until I see a pattern that seems to match and go from there (a bit tedious).

 

[PVFan]

Re: flat 5th/raised 7th lesson

I've jumped out of some ruts. I took this Lynch scale and spelled it out for every key, and did what I often do when learning a a scale, which is to draw part of a fretboard without numbering the frets, and then mark dots with the roots circled so I can see the patterns at a glance. Then the riffs and licks and little dyads and triads just start popping out. Intervallicaly, the Lynch scale is spelled (with whole and half steps):

w h w h w w+h

and it's a minor scale that gives you 3 sets of tritones (hurray!) and a minor 3rd but you get to keep the perfect 4th. When playing the 6th mode of it, which is the Hungarian Major scale I mentioned (and is the only name in history for this peculiar combination of intervals) it becomes a major scale, and you get the 5th back, but its 4th is raised and becomes the root tritone. And its 3rd is major, not minor. So I've been approaching it the way Yngwie uses the harmonic minor scale. He likes to play in the key of the harmonic minor's Phrygian dominant, or the 5th mode of harmonic minor.

I do the same with this Lynch minor scale. For example, I play a "main theme" in say D Lynch, and then for a secondary theme (or chorus part maybe) I switch to the key of its 6th mode, which is A# Hungarian Major. It's the same set of notes. But doing this allows you to go back and forth between major and minor flavors using the same notes so it doesn't "sound" like a key change, just a minor<->major switch that "sounds" like it makes sense, and of course take advantage of all those tritones. Or vice versa. Example 2, start with D Hungarian Major, then switch to its 3rd mode, which is F# Lynch.

I've been creative, have had some fun, and have gotten some inspiration from this.


Is it common knowledge that Lynch does this flatted 5th - dominant 7th thing? And no on else really is known for it? No jazz dudes?


Neat stuff! Flexible and weird!

 

[DankStar]

Re: flat 5th/raised 7th lesson

cool analysis man. wow, you're a thinker.

It was sort of common knowledge about lynch's flat fifth on his old site (see link below to his lessons). His pay-site "dojo" probably went into it as well. Oddly enough the below lessons never really tabbed out the whole scale, just had licks that used the optional notes. I would think some jazz dudes use it, but maybe more in the context of either using "passing notes," or combinations of the modes with the diminished scale (or in the case of Alex Skolnick, the occassional blues scale mixed in too).

Might want to print these little exercises out before it goes away (it was the basis for the thread): http://web.archive.org/web/20040401215809/georgelynch.com/tab.html

 

[Vetteboy]

Re: flat 5th/raised 7th lesson

I played through the run a few times today...I could make both fingerings work but as I predicted the one I posted felt a little more natural to me. Probably partly due to the scale patterns etc. I'm more familiar with.

Definitely a neat scale though. I don't know that I'll have much opportunity to use it but some more material in the repertoire never hurts. Thanks!

 

[ImmortalSix]

Re: flat 5th/raised 7th lesson

NERRRRRRRRRRRRRRDS!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[PVFan]

Re: flat 5th/raised 7th lesson

NERRRRRRRRRRRRRRDS!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[DankStar]

Re: flat 5th/raised 7th lesson

tri lam 4 lyfe