Floyd w/ Big Brass vs. Ibanez Lo Pro (Tone Experiment)

Top-L

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I installed an old Lo Pro onto a new guitar that came with a Floyd Rose Special (basswood Dean 350f) The routes are very similar and the Lo Pro could be installed permanently, but looses most pull up because of a shallower cavity.

The FRS stayed in tune great and had a bright but "tinny" (unplugged) sound, so I upgraded it to a 32mm brass big block.

Unfortunately, while the brass block sounded bigger and the fundamental tones are stronger, the sound lost its harmonic content. Notes sounded simpler with less air on top. The sound of a big brass block has a big round mid character to it, and I would say for many players it could be better, but not for me.

So I wanted to find out how much of the lack of harmonics/ air was due to the bridge design, material, or overall mass.

I installed the Ibanez Lo Pro into the Dean and I suppose, not surprisingly, the guitar gained the character it was missing. The Lo Pro is actually a bit heavier than the Floyd Special with 32mm brass block. The Lo Pro has a wider overall presentation. It has as much bass (maybe more) than the floyd with big brass, but it doesnt have the round mid bump.

So what have I learned from this? The big round mid bump and lack of character/articulation most likely comes from the brass, not the additional mass.

The Floyd Rose absolutely needs more mass to compete with the Lo Pro, but doing it with brass reduces the air, articulation, and harmonic content. I suspect the brass is reasonable to work and its density make it a good/affordable choice, but it really takes the mojo out of the tone.

Now I understand that this is a Floyd Special and not an OFR. My understanding is that at the point the block has been replaced, the only material difference is the saddles. The OFR are steel, the Special's are cast zinc. That said, the Lo Pros saddles are also cast zinc, so that alone is not necessarily a detriment to the tone. I would like to hear an OFR with original block, it may have the mojo that is missing in the combination I tested. It may be that the Floyd needs the steel saddles to regain the air lost from the brass block.

Sorry, I dont have any tone clips. You'll just have to trust that the Lo Pro Edge is largely responsible for that high end Ibanez sound.

Now I am looking into ways to improve the mass of the Floyd while keeping the "live" character of steel. Maybe the Gotoh Floyd has that "ibanez" character. (they make the ibanez lo pro).
 
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Re: Floyd w/ Big Brass vs. Ibanez Lo Pro (Tone Experiment)

I just weighed the bridges. The floyd with 32mm brass is actually a bit heavier: 14.8oz vs 14.1oz.

The brass block is about 3oz heavier than the stock zinc block.
 
Re: Floyd w/ Big Brass vs. Ibanez Lo Pro (Tone Experiment)

Well said.

The Gotoh 1996T doesn't sound like either the OFR or the Edge or even the Schaller.
It has a growl of its own, I'd pick it as the warmest of the bunch.

A small brass block on the Special could perhaps make an approximation.
 
Re: Floyd w/ Big Brass vs. Ibanez Lo Pro (Tone Experiment)

Good test Top-L. Thanks for posting that. I haven't any experience with the Floyd Rose Specials, so I don't know what the blocks on those is composed of. But I do know that the blocks on the OFR is and always has been brass. They are plated with I think Nickle.
 
Re: Floyd w/ Big Brass vs. Ibanez Lo Pro (Tone Experiment)

Not surprised about the Lo Pro - the so-called 'hard zinc' Ibanez use was concocted specifically to try to offset the tinny sound Floyds can exhibit. I suppose it's one reason why big guns like Satch and Vai don't feel the need to use brass blocks in their guitars. I'm certainly cool with the stock Edge in two of my guitars. I've read about people trying brass blocks in their Edge/Lo Pro and switching back because the guitar lost attack and some bite.
 
Re: Floyd w/ Big Brass vs. Ibanez Lo Pro (Tone Experiment)

Not surprised about the Lo Pro - the so-called 'hard zinc' Ibanez use was concocted specifically to try to offset the tinny sound Floyds can exhibit. I suppose it's one reason why big guns like Satch and Vai don't feel the need to use brass blocks in their guitars. I'm certainly cool with the stock Edge in two of my guitars. I've read about people trying brass blocks in their Edge/Lo Pro and switching back because the guitar lost attack and some bite.

That would make sense.

I think the floyd needs a bit more mass, but from steel. I'm thinking about adding a 1/8"-1/4" steel baseplate under the zinc sustain block. That might add an oz or 2.

I like the Floyd Rose special. Mine is new, but the bar is tight and solid, and it stays in great tune. I also like the bar position and action. Hope I can find an affordable solution to give it more zing with some lows.
 
Re: Floyd w/ Big Brass vs. Ibanez Lo Pro (Tone Experiment)

Would be interesting to try blocks made of various different materials on a OFR to see how the tone and sustain would be affected . Zinc, Copper, Steel, Bronze, Aluminum, and Brass. Different alloys of Steel, Bronze, Aluminum, and Brass may differ tone and sustain wise. What about Tungsten Carbide, Inconel, Stainless Steel and ????
 
Re: Floyd w/ Big Brass vs. Ibanez Lo Pro (Tone Experiment)

If someone made those and they were free I would try them all.

I ordered a standard floyd brass 32. I have a hunch that is the best size that has some low and still has some sparkle.
 
Re: Floyd w/ Big Brass vs. Ibanez Lo Pro (Tone Experiment)

Well let us know what your results are with that.
 
Re: Floyd w/ Big Brass vs. Ibanez Lo Pro (Tone Experiment)

This has me curious. I never even tried the original block on my Floyd Special. I went straight to the big brass. I would like to see if I could get more harmonics and zing. Thanks.
 
Re: Floyd w/ Big Brass vs. Ibanez Lo Pro (Tone Experiment)

I've got the original FRS block, a stock OFR block, and a big brass block. I suppose I could try 'em all.

I have real doubts about that stock block doing anything positive though.
 
Re: Floyd w/ Big Brass vs. Ibanez Lo Pro (Tone Experiment)

This has me curious. I never even tried the original block on my Floyd Special. I went straight to the big brass. I would like to see if I could get more harmonics and zing. Thanks.

The original zinc may have more harmonics, and it had more character than the big brass, although less heft. It sounded thin to me unplugged, but better plugged in, for my style of playing.
 
Re: Floyd w/ Big Brass vs. Ibanez Lo Pro (Tone Experiment)

Today I installed the standard brass 32 on the Floyd Special, I also shimmed the saddles.

I think that for this guitar, the standard block is better. The most noticeable affect is that harmonics in the lower fret positions, on the lower strings are more pronounced. The big block has a fatter mid right in that area of the spectrum, and the harmonics are suppressed with the big block. With the big block, I was able to coax the harmonics out with different amp settings, but with the standard block, they are more apparent unplugged. I would say that the guitar has a bit more growl with the standard block, but it doesnt have as much sustain and is not as resonant. The tone in the upper registers is more trebly, not quite as thick. I am just guessing that this basswood guitar needs all the harmonics and treble on top, but a mahogony body shredder might like the big brass block.

Shimming the saddles has fixed this guitar. The top E string felt weak before but it was just getting pinched by the frets. Now the E and B strings resonate the same and the guitar seems to intonate better.

This guitar neck has around a 15"-16" radius (I couldnt get consensus with the gauge I printed, but the shim pattern is the same for these radiuses, its not compound.) The nut is probably radiused for 10 or 12" but the guitar is much better now.

Loving this guitar. All I need to do now is shave under the nut to get a little lower, and either radius the nut or buy the 15" nut. Not bad for a sub-300 guitar. I didn't have to worry about these things with the high-end Ibanez guitars. Surprisingly, the action on this thing is as low as my Ibanez guitars.

Also like to add that the standard and big brass blocks are more similar than the zinc block. The zinc block has a tinniness in the upper registers.

zinc 34 = 2.6oz
std 32 = 3.4 oz
big 32 = 5.6 oz
 
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Re: Floyd w/ Big Brass vs. Ibanez Lo Pro (Tone Experiment)

Today I installed the standard brass 32 on the Floyd Special, I also shimmed the saddles.

I think that for this guitar, the standard block is better.

Just to clarify, are you saying the standard brass block or standard zinc (stock) block is better? I'm in the same boat as you and don't really want to lose any tremolo travel, so I'm curious to the standard brass block. However, if you're saying the standard stock zinc block is better, there's no point in me giving brass a shot.

Also, are you getting any clearance issues going from a 34mm block to a 32mm block?
 
Re: Floyd w/ Big Brass vs. Ibanez Lo Pro (Tone Experiment)

the FRS is FR's answer to the licensed models out there. they are not the same spec as the German or Korean FR. not quite an apples-to-apples.

I'm also curious how weight is playing in to this conversation. look at some of the materials being used for parts and sustain blocks. brass. zinc. titanium. granite. copper. steel. tungsten. and so on. a material's weight doesn't always translate into how it sounds.
 
Re: Floyd w/ Big Brass vs. Ibanez Lo Pro (Tone Experiment)

Just to clarify, are you saying the standard brass block or standard zinc (stock) block is better? I'm in the same boat as you and don't really want to lose any tremolo travel, so I'm curious to the standard brass block. However, if you're saying the standard stock zinc block is better, there's no point in me giving brass a shot.

Also, are you getting any clearance issues going from a 34mm block to a 32mm block?

The standard brass block is the best. The big brass block kills the harmonic content and puts a big round mid hump in the tone. The standard brass has more growl. The big brass is more resonant. The zinc block sounds tinny.

I am very happy with the std brass block in this trem. No clearance with the 32. The 37 would probably hit the back plate.
 
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