Flubby, farty low notes - cause?

Kosh Naranek

Kosh Naranek

New member
On certain amps I've played through, including cheap and mid priced solid state amps, as well as a really nice Mesa Boogie combo, I notice if the bass knob is turned up a bit, the amp is not able to accurately translate the low frequencies, and a low E (or D if you're drop tuned) will give you this blatty, farty sound.

Anyone know what's going on there? Why it happens? Is it simply the power amp section unable to handle low frequencies at that volume level? The volume levels I've heard this at were moderate to loud living room/guitar shop levels, not stage volume.

Is it the filter caps getting old and no longer able to provide enough current when the power amp asks for more to reproduce a low note? Or would aging filter caps just result in louder 60 Hz hum?

I'm curious if it's just a limitation of the design of some amps or if it's a maintenance/service problem. :dunno:
Thanks!
 
Re: Flubby, farty low notes - cause?

I dont know, i think as far as bass definition goes, especially if we are talking about palm mute on high gain. I think Speakers and Power tubes are the deciding factors, and then pup.
 
Re: Flubby, farty low notes - cause?

I'm talking about just an open low E string or power chord, clean or distorted. One amp I heard this through was a head/cab, but the cab may or may not have been open back.

It isn't just that it sounds loose. There is a blatty, distorted wave being repoduced. And I don't mean distorted as in overdriven.
 
Re: Flubby, farty low notes - cause?

i have some SS amps that when turned up and and having some heavy bass the speakers buzz nasty on low notes.... they can't take it...

i also have an old 82 JCM 800 head that makes simular noises but in that case the techs i spoke to thinks it's caps

my old 65 Deluxe had cap issues and it made some funny noises too!!!
 
Re: Flubby, farty low notes - cause?

Are your spekes having excessive cone travel becuase they cannot handle the power of the amp? If not, then is youe amp adequtaly powered to prevent "fart out", which can be attributd to an anemic amp or underpowered speakers or both.
Or, like the dude said in a previous post ;would it be some notoroiusly bad caps and resistors( all solid state older amps are ctaestrophically prone to failure in my brief , limited and amateuer experince).
Either that or the amp just plain sucks, which would be believable with any given solid state design.
 
Re: Flubby, farty low notes - cause?

It could be a dozen or more things causing your issues however I owuld bet the biggest thing is the open back cab...combos are never as big and tight on the bottom like Rid said...
 
Re: Flubby, farty low notes - cause?

the guy who invented fire said:
It could be a dozen or more things causing your issues however I owuld bet the biggest thing is the open back cab...combos are never as big and tight on the bottom like Rid said...
Click to expand...

That shouldnt be an issue if the amp is up to task(should it?).
 
Re: Flubby, farty low notes - cause?

jerryjg said:
That shouldnt be an issue if the amp is up to task(should it?).
Click to expand...

It doesn't matter what the amp in question is and it doesn't matter how good or bad the amp is running if you run the amp through an open back 2x12 vs a closed back 2x12 the closed back cab will be a LOT tighter and puncher than the open back...
 
Re: Flubby, farty low notes - cause?

i dunno man i've dimed or came close to diming the bass knob on every amp i've played/owned and i've never noticed that
 
Re: Flubby, farty low notes - cause?

Mesa's just have so much bass in them. I never have the bass on my Mesa above 10:00 to 11:00. If you run higher than that, you have to tighten it up by bringing the presence up higher. Which on a Mesa can cut your ears open.
 
Re: Flubby, farty low notes - cause?

the 2 wrost amps i have for the speakers cr*ping out early are a Berhinger Vintager and a Fender Princton Chorus.... both of those amps the speakers buzz like crazy with the volume above 4 on the dial.... low volume practice amps only...
 
Re: Flubby, farty low notes - cause?

Its probably cause you are playing a JB? LOL!
 
Re: Flubby, farty low notes - cause?

theodie said:
Its probably cause you are playing a JB? LOL!
Click to expand...
:laugh2: It just so happens that when I was trying out a Mesa Boogie TUBE combo (22 caliber maybe, I can't remember the model), I was playing my Washburn, the only guitar I own in which the bridge JB sounds good.

I have cranked the bass on combo amps before, and while they may or may not be a bit muddy, they don't produce nasty blatting noises usually.

I figure it must be either the speakers or the power amp being incapable of mustering up the wattage necessary to produce a loud low note, but I was curious if this might be due to the caps getting old or if it's just the design of some amps.

Thankfully the only amp I own that does this (and I only discovered it was doing this because I lent it to someone who played it with the bass up higher than I usually turn it) is my old Crate 1-12 combo amp. I'm not too concerned about that one since it's not my main amp by any means. Other amps I've heard do this are a Peavey Wiggy I tried in a local shop (lots of cool tones but don't turn the bass up too much. You can even hear this in the video demo that Peavey used to have on their site, leading me to believe it is part of the design), and the aforementioned Mesa combo.

Thanks for the responses & opinions guys.
 
Re: Flubby, farty low notes - cause?

I can address the Boogie issue. They have gain after the EQ section. In other words, the bass, mid, and treble are positioned in the circuit whereby some distortion is occurring AFTER those tone knobs. So cranking the bass past 5 or so will generally cause the amplifier to muddy up on the low end. If you've ever played a Mesa with a graphic EQ, that's the secret sauce. You leave the bass knob around 5, but you can put a smiley curve on the graphic EQ, and that low end will stay tighter because it's after all the distortion. It's also why some people love BBE's in Mesa FX loops.

In Mesa's defense, turning the bass knob up can really fatten a weak, thin Strat bridge pickup. It's a way to get a thick solo tone from a bright pickup. But most Humbuckers will sound tubby and garbled in the low end if you push that bass knob.

As for other amps, I don't know. Some can take it, some can't I guess.
 
Re: Flubby, farty low notes - cause?

Well one factor is how loud you play. Tube amps get tighter as they get louder. Tube amps at moderate volume tend to not be that tight. Also your optimal gain and EQ settings may change drastically between a moderate volume level and loud.
 
Re: Flubby, farty low notes - cause?

frankfalbo said:
I can address the Boogie issue. They have gain after the EQ section. In other words, the bass, mid, and treble are positioned in the circuit whereby some distortion is occurring AFTER those tone knobs. So cranking the bass past 5 or so will generally cause the amplifier to muddy up on the low end. If you've ever played a Mesa with a graphic EQ, that's the secret sauce. You leave the bass knob around 5, but you can put a smiley curve on the graphic EQ, and that low end will stay tighter because it's after all the distortion. It's also why some people love BBE's in Mesa FX loops.

In Mesa's defense, turning the bass knob up can really fatten a weak, thin Strat bridge pickup. It's a way to get a thick solo tone from a bright pickup. But most Humbuckers will sound tubby and garbled in the low end if you push that bass knob.

As for other amps, I don't know. Some can take it, some can't I guess.
Click to expand...

man that's just a dumb design

i'll never understand the appeal of mesa... or most peaveys
 
Re: Flubby, farty low notes - cause?

jerryjg said:
Are your spekes having excessive cone travel becuase they cannot handle the power of the amp? If not, then is youe amp adequtaly powered to prevent "fart out", which can be attributd to an anemic amp or underpowered speakers or both.
Or, like the dude said in a previous post ;would it be some notoroiusly bad caps and resistors( all solid state older amps are ctaestrophically prone to failure in my brief , limited and amateuer experince).
Either that or the amp just plain sucks, which would be believable with any given solid state design.
Click to expand...

Spelling sins aside, this is a good post.

frankfalbo said:
I can address the Boogie issue. They have gain after the EQ section. In other words, the bass, mid, and treble are positioned in the circuit whereby some distortion is occurring AFTER those tone knobs. So cranking the bass past 5 or so will generally cause the amplifier to muddy up on the low end. If you've ever played a Mesa with a graphic EQ, that's the secret sauce. You leave the bass knob around 5, but you can put a smiley curve on the graphic EQ, and that low end will stay tighter because it's after all the distortion. It's also why some people love BBE's in Mesa FX loops.
Click to expand...

And this is why I don't like Mesas. They've always sounded flat and 2-D to me... could this be the reason?
 
Re: Flubby, farty low notes - cause?

disturb said:
Mesa's just have so much bass in them. I never have the bass on my Mesa above 10:00 to 11:00. If you run higher than that, you have to tighten it up by bringing the presence up higher. Which on a Mesa can cut your ears open.
Click to expand...

I think my bass is set around 4 for all channels on my Mark IV. Even then, I use a Bad Monkey in front to get the bass tighter. Yea... On Mesa the presence setting depends on the treble setting and things can get shrill rather quickly if you are not careful. For what it is worth NEVER set the presence while you standing right in front of a 4 x 12. Back off about 8 feet and listen. Your audience will thank you! :)
 
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