Flush strat trem, fewer springs

[Plessure]

Does this make sense?

I figure if the floating is eliminated by screwing in the claw, tuning stability should be there and having fewer trem springs should just make it easier to wham.

I'm considering removing one of currently three springs.

Am i missing something?

 

[Ayrton]

Re: Flush strat trem, fewer springs

On a flat mount trem, you can fiddle with the springs and claw, but too little tension and simple bends will lift the tremolo.

 

[Plessure]

Re: Flush strat trem, fewer springs

On a flat mount trem, you can fiddle with the springs and claw, but too little tension and simple bends will lift the tremolo.

Ah, of course.

From your experience, would you say two springs could suffice for 9-46 strings? I'm not a big bender as of now, but i don't want to close doors either.

 

[Chistopher]

Re: Flush strat trem, fewer springs

Ah, of course.

From your experience, would you say two springs could suffice for 9-46 strings?

I'd say it would. But there's nothing wrong with having 3 springs and loosening the trem claw, or in your case, tightening it until the trem is flush.

 

[Jacew]

Re: Flush strat trem, fewer springs

My workbench strat has two springs and flush trem. Works fine, not the most stable, but haven't noticed any difference for when it had three. Only easier to bend.

 

[Chris Pile]

Re: Flush strat trem, fewer springs

Just do what works.... 2 springs really tight, 3 springs kinda tight, 4 springs with just enough to keep the whammy on the guitar.

 

[Ayrton]

Re: Flush strat trem, fewer springs

Leave the three springs on there and back the claw out just to the point where a full step bend does not move the trem. See if that feels better in your regular playing, and then try two springs.

Only change one thing at a time, so you know what works and what does not.

 

[Van Noord]

Re: Flush strat trem, fewer springs

My Strat trem is flush as well, and I left the 3 springs in.
I did wrap them with a single piece of tape to curb overtones created by spring vibration though.

 

[Chistopher]

Re: Flush strat trem, fewer springs

My Strat trem is flush as well, and I left the 3 springs in.
I did wrap them with a single piece of tape to curb overtones created by spring vibration though.

You can also put the padding that comes with your SD pickups to silence the springs. And then use the box they came in to hold a deck of cards.

Can't do that with Dimarzio.

 

[Van Noord]

Re: Flush strat trem, fewer springs

You can also put the padding that comes with your SD pickups to silence the springs. And then use the box they came in to hold a deck of cards.

Can't do that with Dimarzio.

I'm Canadian, so I use hockey tape

 

[Plessure]

Re: Flush strat trem, fewer springs

Right now the claw is screwed in pretty tight on the bass side. Maybe 17 mm left on the screw. The treble side has about 20 % more screw left. I still have three springs in it, symmetrical on the claw side but the middle one leans toward bass on the block side. Both of these imbalances in the tremolo were needed to have it flush on the bass side with the 10 gauge bass strings. Of course i could have kept the springs fully symmetrical and screwed the claw in even more asymmetrically, but i like the feel of this spring setup and also the idea of it. Anyway, now the claw is screwed in just enough to flush it on both sides. Should i screw it in more on the treble side even though it's unnecessary? Will the internally asymmetric trem setup cause detrimental tensions in my instrument?

 

[Chistopher]

Re: Flush strat trem, fewer springs

The symmetry of the claw doesn't matter as it's all connected to the trem block which won't rotate. Some argue that it leads to uneven wear on the springs, but it doesn't make a difference as springs don't really wear out in the first place. You should be fine.

 

[Plessure]

Re: Flush strat trem, fewer springs

The symmetry of the claw doesn't matter as it's all connected to the trem block which won't rotate. Some argue that it leads to uneven wear on the springs, but it doesn't make a difference as springs don't really wear out in the first place. You should be fine.

Alright, thank you.

I was thinking that maybe some wood could get twisted? That trem block might stay there but there must be some kind of twisting pressure on it which could affect the wood. Am i mistaken here?

 

[Chistopher]

Re: Flush strat trem, fewer springs

Alright, thank you.

I was thinking that maybe some wood could get twisted? That trem block might stay there but there must be some kind of twisting pressure on it which could affect the wood. Am i mistaken here?

I've never had issues with it. I've seen guitars come from the factory like that before and they were fine. The only problem you could have is if you have too crazy and angle and all the stress is on one screw. But the claw doesn't have to be parallel.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Flush strat trem, fewer springs

I’m going through that decision right now with the Floyd on my ErnieBall Axis: to float or not to float.

Right now it’s tight to the top and will only lower the pitch...but the adv@ntage is that I c@n play bent double stop/pedal steel licks without the note I’m bending causing the note I’m holding to detune.

I’d like to be be able to pull up on the bar though and raise all six strings up 1/2 tone or so.

Havent found that sweet spot where I can h@ve both and since I have other guitars with fixed tailpieces, I’ll probably just play those licks on those guitars.

 

[Plessure]

Re: Flush strat trem, fewer springs

I’m going through that decision right now with the Floyd on my ErnieBall Axis: to float or not to float.

Right now it’s tight to the top and will only lower the pitch...but the adv@ntage is that I c@n play bent double stop/pedal steel licks without the note I’m bending causing the note I’m holding to detune.

I’d like to be be able to pull up on the bar though and raise all six strings up 1/2 tone or so.

Havent found that sweet spot where I can h@ve both and since I have other guitars with fixed tailpieces, I’ll probably just play those licks on those guitars.

You should be able to have both by adding more springs to the trem. It will be harder to wham though.

Btw i never noticed any problems with bending. I like to do some of the bending you describe, typically with heavy distortion to bring out a modulating dissonance. Always worked with the three springs and quite easy trem action this guitar came with.

I take it you've tried floating? Seems weird that a FR should be that unstable, unless there is a spring missing.

 

[Chistopher]

Re: Flush strat trem, fewer springs

You should be able to have both by adding more springs to the trem. It will be harder to wham though.

Btw i never noticed any problems with bending. I like to do some of the bending you describe, typically with heavy distortion to bring out a modulating dissonance. Always worked with the three springs and quite easy trem action this guitar came with.

I take it you've tried floating? Seems weird that a FR should be that unstable, unless there is a spring missing.

What he's saying is that on a floating tremolo when you bend a string that creates tension which makes it so all the other strings are slightly flat. This makes it so that you have to bend the other note slightly when you are doing a double stop bend if you want to stay in tune. This happens on even the best floating tremolo systems.

 

[Plessure]

Re: Flush strat trem, fewer springs

I've never had issues with it. I've seen guitars come from the factory like that before and they were fine. The only problem you could have is if you have too crazy and angle and all the stress is on one screw. But the claw doesn't have to be parallel.

Great! I suppose you've seen enough guitars to tell. Thanks again.

 

[Plessure]

Re: Flush strat trem, fewer springs

What he's saying is that on a floating tremolo when you bend a string that creates tension which makes it so all the other strings are slightly flat. This makes it so that you have to bend the other note slightly when you are doing a double stop bend if you want to stay in tune. This happens on even the best floating tremolo systems.

Ok. Maybe it is something one intuitively compensates for. Or miniscule enough to be passable, at least to my saturated standards.

Is it true that more springs will cause it to be more stable when bending?

 

[PFDarkside]

Re: Flush strat trem, fewer springs

More springs makes it more stable, but total spring tension always equals total string tension, so it will move.

A Tremsetter or other device can be used so that the trem comes back to a perfect float every time and will resist small movements like bending a string. Of course the floyd feel changes and you can’t do “flutters”. It also adds another dimension to setups.