Focusrite isa one preamp? How should I spend my money?

[jake_xms3_punk]

Hey guys. I'm looking to upgrade my preamps. I have a Samson c-valve and a presonus tube pre.
The main one I'm looking at is the focusrite isa one, mainly because the price is right, the reviews are glowing and it comes with an AD converter. Plus I've wanted one for years.

Now my question is, using the mics I have, would the quality of my recording vastly improve with the focusrite? If it did improve would it be more the preamp or the converters?
would I be better off buying a dedicated A-D converter in the same price point as the focusrite and keep running my c-valve or the presonus? Or even just get a better mic? My mics now are an AKG C2000b and an AKG solid tube.

Basically, which part of my chain is the weakest and would benefit from an upgrade the most?

 

[DrNewcenstein]

Re: Focusrite isa one preamp? How should I spend my money?

Basically if you want a pro studio setup, get a pro studio setup.

Otherwise ask yourself if what you intend to do is worth that expense. Do you need something to get by with or do you need something to make a living with.

 

[jake_xms3_punk]

Re: Focusrite isa one preamp? How should I spend my money?

I don't plan on earning a living from it, but I do recordings for local bands and singers from time to time. I want to get the best sound possible and do some solo projects etc haha. I've been recording music almost as long as I've been playing music and feel it's time to upgrade my equipment one piece at a time.

 

[DrNewcenstein]

Re: Focusrite isa one preamp? How should I spend my money?

I'd say that dedicated units would be better than multi-function units, assuming the prices were the same, simply because the total production budget of the dedicated unit went to that one function, rather than shared among the multiple functions of the multi-function unit.

But then it's also possible the multi-function unit has one great feature surrounded by cripplingly crappy features, or that all the features are merely average in Brand A, but Brand B's offering has a slightly better converter but merely lacks some miniscule option you probably won't use to begin with like a purple LED for the SPDIF.

 

[dystrust]

Re: Focusrite isa one preamp? How should I spend my money?

What type of interface are you currently using? In terms of fidelity the ISA One is a far better preamp than your Samson or the Presonus tube pre. It's even of a higher caliber than the mics you're using, so possibly a bit more of an upgrade than you really need. In terms of overall recording quality a good source is the most important, followed by microphones, preamps, and converters pretty much in that order. The quality of your space is also important; probably more so than a preamp though less than the microphone.

Quite a while ago I bought into the Presonus Tube Pre hype / marketing, and picked one up. I was running it into a M-Audio Delta 66 interface and it was better than the preamps in the bargain basement mixer I had been using, though it always sounded obscured and just tended to disappear in a mix. Since then I've acquired both a better mixer and a MOTU 828 mk II, and I haven't touched the Tube Pre since. The preamps in the 828 are nowhere near an ISA One, but they're absolutely usable with the mics I currently have. If you're in a similar situation a better interface may offer improved sound quality and additional features for a similar price to the ISA.

 

[jake_xms3_punk]

Re: Focusrite isa one preamp? How should I spend my money?

Thanks for the replies guys! I am currently using a tascam US800 which by its self isn't the best but when using the spdif input from the Samsons digital out, it sounds a lot better.
I never use the audio ins on it anymore unless I'm recording drums or something.
That's pretty much why I was looking into the ISA one as it has the same features as the c-valve but greatly improved.

 

[LLL]

Re: Focusrite isa one preamp? How should I spend my money?

If you possibly can (and if you're serious), save up the clams for the good stuff. By the time you go
through countless "meh" versions, you'll have spent enough clams to get the good stuff anyways.

A good mic pre will make any mic sound good.

OTOH, a "meh" mic pre will make any mic sound "meh".

I got a Universal Audio LA610MkII 3 years ago and it still amazes to this day.
Previously, I had been using an EM-U 1820m (still have). First time I tried my SM57s
(which I wasn't a huge fan of) with it, I was hooked. Made the SM57 sound *great*.

A good pre will also save you time in the DAW (fixing and fuddling).

 

[LLL]

Re: Focusrite isa one preamp? How should I spend my money?

For example.

$500 range, I'd go with a Daking Mic Pre One
Sweetwater - Daking Mic Pre One

$1000 range, I'd go with a Universal Audio SOLO/610
Sweetwater - UA SOLO/610

-or-

a Great River ME-1NV
Sweetwater - Great River ME-1NV

Above that, you have the UA LA610MkII (which is more a channel strip; mic pre one side, optical compressor other side) and
various other high quality mic pre's.

(Hell, if I had the $$$$, I'd get a UA 2-610, a pair of UA 1176 comps and a pair of UA LA-2A (old Teletronix) comps)

 

[Lazarus1140]

Re: Focusrite isa one preamp? How should I spend my money?

A good mic pre will make any mic sound good. OTOH, a "meh" mic pre will make any mic sound "meh".

A good pre will also save you time in the DAW (fixing and fuddling).

This reminds me of something I have wondered about. Don't most external sound cards already preamps? Is there still a benefit to adding a higher quality preamp and the running it into meh interface, or would you first need a high quality interface to reap the benefit of the high quality preamp?

 

[LLL]

Re: Focusrite isa one preamp? How should I spend my money?

This reminds me of something I have wondered about. Don't most external sound cards already preamps?
Is there still a benefit to adding a higher quality preamp and the running it into meh interface, or would you first need a high quality interface to reap the benefit of the high quality preamp?

I haven't tried every interface out there, but nowadays I'd say the vast majority of interfaces would do just fine sound-quality-wise.

Addendum: When I'm talking about "interfaces", I'm talking about (at the very least), prosumer-grade audio interfaces... not a Soundblaster (remember those) or the on-board 5.1 sound chip on your computer's motherboard that just so happens to have a line in.

If one were really picky, they'd need to research the A/D converter found in their interface (s/n ratio and all that jazz).

With that in mind, the focus is still on the mic preamp.

I still use my 11-year-old E-MU 1820m (circa 2004 product) as my interface (my UA LA610Mk2 connects to this; in and out).

If I were to buy an interface today, I would probably explore the Lynx brand of products.

Again, it's the A/D converter (analog-to-digital converter) that does the work (unless of course you're doing a purely digital connection
with your gear).

 

[El Dunco]

Re: Focusrite isa one preamp? How should I spend my money?

I advise everyone to check this out before making their decision.

(for the record, I can absolutely tell the difference between the interface and the cheap soundcard 100% of the time)

 

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: Focusrite isa one preamp? How should I spend my money?

Yep, your oder of priority should be: interface, mic, then preamp last. Outboard mic preamps are good fun, but do VERY little to the sound after it has been recorded. Mic choice is far more influental to the recorded sound. And the inteface is just as important.

 

[jake_xms3_punk]

Re: Focusrite isa one preamp? How should I spend my money?

Thanks for all the replies guys! I think I'm going to pull the plug and go for it whist I have the cash haha it will be a massive upgrade to my preamps and converters, whereas a mic in the same price range probably won't be as much of an improvement. I'll eventually get a better mic. I don't feel I need a better interface yet as I'm pretty much bypassing the crappy built in preamps and converters and only using it as a bridge to my PC by using the digital spdif input.

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: Focusrite isa one preamp? How should I spend my money?

Yep, your oder of priority should be: interface, mic, then preamp last. Outboard mic preamps are good fun, but do VERY little to the sound after it has been recorded. Mic choice is far more influental to the recorded sound. And the inteface is just as important.

I actually don't agree with this, but everyone has different experiences.

 

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: Focusrite isa one preamp? How should I spend my money?

Would love to hear your list.
Pls share!!

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: Focusrite isa one preamp? How should I spend my money?

Would love to hear your list.
Pls share!!

It's just simply reordered: mic, preamp and I/O last. The same mic through different pres can sound dramatically different, IME. For example, an AKG C414 through a Neve 1073 sounds just like a U87 through the same Neve 1073. But put the U87 and the AKG C414 through a Millennia HV3C and the C414 is full-range, bright, clear and crystalline and transparent, while the U87 is a vintage honking midrange murky disappointment that needs lots of in-the-mix hot-sauce to bring back that pro shimmer.

In my experience, the quality of the A/D converters in the I/O, and even moreover the clock source, make a difference, but it's that last 10% of clarity that it brings - but it isn't the majority of the sound.

Anyway, you've got a formula that's working fine. I just had some different experiences, that's all.

 

[El Dunco]

Re: Focusrite isa one preamp? How should I spend my money?

It's just simply reordered: mic, preamp and I/O last. The same mic through different pres can sound dramatically different, IME. For example, an AKG C414 through a Neve 1073 sounds just like a U87 through the same Neve 1073. But put the U87 and the AKG C414 through a Millennia HV3C and the C414 is full-range, bright, clear and crystalline and transparent, while the U87 is a vintage honking midrange murky disappointment that needs lots of in-the-mix hot-sauce to bring back that pro shimmer.

In my experience, the quality of the A/D converters in the I/O, and even moreover the clock source, make a difference, but it's that last 10% of clarity that it brings - but it isn't the majority of the sound.

Anyway, you've got a formula that's working fine. I just had some different experiences, that's all.

Did you check out the audio myths video I posted? It's known to be a bit controversial in the production world so I understand if you disagree with it. You're right. The Neve colours the sound in a very musical way. The producers back then using that gear most likely would have killed to have what is available in industry standard interfaces today which is a flat, clean preamp that imparts no sound colouration and leaves the mic signal pure. It's basically the same story as how the electric guitar amp became what it is today. They wanted to make something that just made the guitar louder while being clean, ended up with something else and it took off.

A good choice to consider before going off and dropping thousands of dollars on preamps or resorting to plugins that chew up valuable memory if a transparent preamp just isn't cutting it, you can get something like the 1073 model from Old School Audio which is a channel strip based on those on the console it's named after. You can bus your tracks through it hey presto, you've got the mojo. Therefore, I agree with TO because you can get straight to work, really hone your skills with mic selections, placement and mixing then start assembling a good modular character channel strip to your hearts content later on if that's what you need. In my experience, it's context sensitive and depends on the sound you are trying to achieve. I have a Neve summing mixer at my disposal which sounds lovely for some bands and songs but in other occasions, works against the desired sound.

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: Focusrite isa one preamp? How should I spend my money?

Did you check out the audio myths video I posted? It's known to be a bit controversial in the production world so I understand if you disagree with it. You're right. The Neve colours the sound in a very musical way. The producers back then using that gear most likely would have killed to have what is available in industry standard interfaces today which is a flat, clean preamp that imparts no sound colouration and leaves the mic signal pure. It's basically the same story as how the electric guitar amp became what it is today. They wanted to make something that just made the guitar louder while being clean, ended up with something else and it took off.

A good choice to consider before going off and dropping thousands of dollars on preamps or resorting to plugins that chew up valuable memory if a transparent preamp just isn't cutting it, you can get something like the 1073 model from Old School Audio which is a channel strip based on those on the console it's named after. You can bus your tracks through it hey presto, you've got the mojo. Therefore, I agree with TO because you can get straight to work, really hone your skills with mic selections, placement and mixing then start assembling a good modular character channel strip to your hearts content later on if that's what you need. In my experience, it's context sensitive and depends on the sound you are trying to achieve. I have a Neve summing mixer at my disposal which sounds lovely for some bands and songs but in other occasions, works against the desired sound.

I didn't look at the video yet. I am just commenting off my personal experiences.

There are plenty of in-the-box options for getting good tone. I have software versions of every hardware piece I own and, while the software options are very very good, there is still a palpable difference in the feel and vibe; something in the sound is unique when it passed through the hardware to the recorder (DAW or whatever it is). But that is not to disparage software-based preamp emulations and in-the-box solutions.

You know what I would say, is it's more important to have experience having heard the real thing, so that when you are using the software, you know exactly how to tweak it to get it almost identical to the real hardware device. Nothing beats that experience of having heard it with your ears, memorizing that sound forever, so that no matter what equipment/software you use after that, you can immediately identify what to change to make it the best it can be.

 

[El Dunco]

Re: Focusrite isa one preamp? How should I spend my money?

I didn't look at the video yet. I am just commenting off my personal experiences.

There are plenty of in-the-box options for getting good tone. I have software versions of every hardware piece I own and, while the software options are very very good, there is still a palpable difference in the feel and vibe; something in the sound is unique when it passed through the hardware to the recorder (DAW or whatever it is). But that is not to disparage software-based preamp emulations and in-the-box solutions.

You know what I would say, is it's more important to have experience having heard the real thing, so that when you are using the software, you know exactly how to tweak it to get it almost identical to the real hardware device. Nothing beats that experience of having heard it with your ears, memorizing that sound forever, so that no matter what equipment/software you use after that, you can immediately identify what to change to make it the best it can be.

Before I respond properly I would like to point out that when I say Old School Audio 1073 model, I'm not talking about software. It's a physical channel strip built to the specs of the channel strip from the Neve board. The part of your post which I have highlighted is pretty much exactly what I was saying in my post. I advise people who want to get a feel for the real thing to go check out some good studios in their area, find out if and when they have any clinics, seminars, talks where they show you all of the equipment and how it sounds (fatso distressers, vintage consoles, optical compressors, tube compressors and so on).

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: Focusrite isa one preamp? How should I spend my money?

I still use my 11-year-old E-MU 1820m (circa 2004 product) as my interface.

I still use my 2007 MOTU Ultralite mk3. The only things that I can imagine banishing this FireWire-only device into retirement would be component failure or, far more likely, upgrading to a more recent computer that lacks FireWire sockets of any description. (I have FW/Thunderbolt adapters but they do not always work as they are supposed to.)