"For brighter / warmer instruments"

[stringster]

Well, I guess this has more or less been covered already, but I kinda couldn't really dig out the answer for myself ... maybe my fault, 'dunno, but here I go.

So, we all know SD qualifies PUs as designed for / working better in "warmer" or "brighter" instruments and almost as a rule - with "balanced" ones ... OK. However, practice has seen cases where these recommendations have been disregarded, some turning out well ... other not quite. It seems, the rule generally applies, but what makes the exceptions, how seriously should this be taken in general and what situations really make it matter?

Right now, I am chosing a neck HB for an alder / maple tele (supposedly a bright instrument). Should I worry about putting a warmer-matching Jazz or 59 or Full Shred and is Alnico II Pro, for example, certainly a better choice because it is said to be a match for brither ones?

 

[jeremy]

Re: "For brighter / warmer instruments"

those are merely generalized suggestions. there is no right or wrong, only what works best for you with your rig.

is your alder/maple tele bright? there is alot of variation in wood
what amp are you using? a bright amp will react different than a bassy one
what tone are you chasing?

people put really bright pups in really bright all maple guitars and really like it.

 

[Gingrel]

Re: "For brighter / warmer instruments"

those are merely generalized suggestions. there is no right or wrong, only what works best for you with your rig.

is your alder/maple tele bright? there is alot of variation in wood
what amp are you using? a bright amp will react different than a bassy one
what tone are you chasing?

people put really bright pups in really bright all maple guitars and really like it.

+1. It all depends. The A2pro is supposedly recommended for brighter instruments, but who is its most famous user? what guitars does he put it in?

 

[blueman335]

Re: "For brighter / warmer instruments"

there is alot of variation in wood. what amp are you using? a bright amp will react different than a bassy one
what tone are you chasing?

+1. Every piece of wood is organic and unique, and while most will have a sound within certain parameters, there are exceptions. Amps, tubes, speakers, even the room you're in, change how a guitar sounds. You'll sound different playing (and competing) with a full band, than when playing alone. Your hands & playing style make a big difference. Plus we all have different ideas on what great tones are.

That's why you rarely get a consensus here, on anything. But that's good, as you're exposed to different points of view, and can make a better decision. Nothing is guaranteed to please everyone. To some guys, that's a nightmare, if they like everything pre-planned & predictable. The reality is that tone is comprised of many variables, and there are many roads you can take. This forum is a great place to be. Ask questions, learn, open your mind, and enjoy the journey.

 

[stringster]

Re: "For brighter / warmer instruments"

... The A2pro is supposedly recommended for brighter instruments, but who is its most famous user? what guitars does he put it in?

Exactly!

I still feel like the issue deserves a synopsis of some kind ... Otherwise, yep, the final sound depends on a number of factors, we all know that too well ... but there should still be a way to make sense of your choice (and manufacturer's descriptions and recommendations as a reference) at each stage.

 

[Gingrel]

Re: "For brighter / warmer instruments"

Exactly!

I still feel like the issue deserves a synopsis of some kind ... Otherwise, yep, the final sound depends on a number of factors, we all know that too well ... but there should still be a way to make sense of your choice (and manufacturer's descriptions and recommendations as a reference) at each stage.

The A2pro is a warm pickup, no doubt about it. But is's impossible for a manufacturer to know whether a given player will like the tone of this warm pickup in a given guitar. The description given is their recommendation, which tends to hinge on getting a balanced tone overall.

 

[stringster]

Re: "For brighter / warmer instruments"

OK, understood.

Just for reference, for my project, i am still swinging b/w AP II Pro, Jazz and '59, but if I choose the AP II, it would be b/c of its sound rather than recommendation, and in the opposite case - for better output level and magnet type matching (to an alnico V bridge). So, for now, you have encouraged me to disregard the "warmer / brighter" qualifications myself. Results due in a month or so ...

 

[blueman335]

Re: "For brighter / warmer instruments"

Exactly!I still feel like the issue deserves a synopsis of some kind ... Otherwise, yep, the final sound depends on a number of factors, we all know that too well ... but there should still be a way to make sense of your choice (and manufacturer's descriptions and recommendations as a reference) at each stage.

The 'synopsis' is thousands of threads on the subject, spanning many years.

Real world: the same PU can sound different in each of 5 different guitars. You have to take the end result & see if it needs tweaking or not. Start with choosing a PU that makes sense for your goals. If you want a clear neck tone, a PGN works much better than a CC. For a vintage '50's sound, a '59B will give better results than an Invader. Once you have that nailed down, see what it sounds like. If the EQ needs to be altered, consider adjusting your set up, and using magnets and/or pots. That's what we do here, because it's the only way to get exactly what you want. We feel our way thru it. With more experience, you get better at this, and have more hits than misses, but you're never 100% the first time. If you're flexible & inquisitive, this is enjoyable. If you're rigid & straight-laced, it can drive you crazy.

The bottom line is: are you willing to learn this stuff so that you can get your ideal tones? For many of us, that's the only to make it happen.

 

[stringster]

Re: "For brighter / warmer instruments"

Hey, guys, let's get a couple of things straight, OK? I am not a novice making their first PU upgrade ever. Done more than a couple with DiMarzio, GFS and some other. Just decided to try SD for this one and this is the only manufacturer I've seen so far that uses the brighter vs. warmer instrument match recommendation, so I'm just trying to make sense of it. From what I've been answered so far, they should've better skipped that at all, since nobody gives a heck about it and only reverts to general wisdom ... which, BTW, I know already. Thanks anyway ...

And, that's also general, but, since we touched upon it, I don't believe too much in spending your life (and money) on endless tonequests - one should be able to get a workable sound on any guitar from 1-2 tries and I don't think that reading descriptions or whatever with this objective is something to be ashamed of.

 

[JohnnyGuitar]

Re: "For brighter / warmer instruments"

What pots are you going to use with the pickup? if you have 250k pots that usually come with Tele single coils then you might as well look for a bright neck humbucker as they will roll off the highs anyway.

 

[SirJackdeFuzz]

Re: "For brighter / warmer instruments"

+1.
Every piece of wood is organic and unique, and while most will have a sound within certain parameters, there are exceptions. Amps, tubes, speakers, even the room you're in, change how a guitar sounds. You'll sound different playing (and competing) with a full band, than when playing alone. Your hands & playing style make a big difference. Plus we all have different ideas on what great tones are.

That's why you rarely get a consensus here, on anything. But that's good, as you're exposed to different points of view, and can make a better decision. Nothing is guaranteed to please everyone. To some guys, that's a nightmare, if they like everything pre-planned & predictable. The reality is that tone is comprised of many variables, and there are many roads you can take. This forum is a great place to be. Ask questions, learn, open your mind, and enjoy the journey.

After all that has been said . . .

:scratchch

 

[blueman335]

Re: "For brighter / warmer instruments"

Hey, guys, let's get a couple of things straight, OK? I am not a novice making their first PU upgrade ever. Done more than a couple with DiMarzio, GFS and some other. Just decided to try SD for this one and this is the only manufacturer I've seen so far that uses the brighter vs. warmer instrument match recommendation, so I'm just trying to make sense of it. From what I've been answered so far, they should've better skipped that at all, since nobody gives a heck about it and only reverts to general wisdom ... which, BTW, I know already. Thanks anyway ...

And, that's also general, but, since we touched upon it, I don't believe too much in spending your life (and money) on endless tonequests - one should be able to get a workable sound on any guitar from 1-2 tries and I don't think that reading descriptions or whatever with this objective is something to be ashamed of.

We didn't know your background, and from your initial questions, you sounded new at this. Our mistake.

Yes, one should be able to get a workable sound after one or two tries, but that may mean changing pots or magnets, not PU's. Some guys here have bought half a dozen PU's and still not been happy with any of them, trading one shortcoming for another.

I don't know that you've told us what kind of music you play & what you want to sound like. Without more info from you, we're left guessing. We're easy to get along with; no one stepped on your toes, at least not intentionally. Relax.

 

[stringster]

Re: "For brighter / warmer instruments"

It's not really that much about me - I'll just shoot at one of the alternatives and that's it - after all we're talking quality products by a good brand and a good guitar on the way, all more or less within a certain "vintage-modern" sound domain, so I know I couldn't be too wrong in the end.

The thread was really more about the thing in a wider perspective ... just not that wide. I now realize it's probably just been chewed too much already, one way or another, for anyone to feel like adding anything essentially new ... well, I am not a novice to guitars but I am a novice to the forum, so I hope that's kindly forgiven.

Will come back with more specific feedback on my project, when implemented.

Peace in the meantime!

 

[blueman335]

Re: "For brighter / warmer instruments"

Rule of thumb is bright PU's for warm woods (like PAF's in mahogany), and warm PU's in a bright wood (CC in ash/maple), for 'balance.' A common exception is the JB, which is a bright PU, but most guys prefer it in a bright wood, as in mahogany it can get a loose low end and it's infamous ice pick spike may suddenly emerge. Oddly enough, the warm A2 JB does better in mahogany than the stock bright A5 version. Another exception is the C8 (a C5 with an A8 magnet) that is a warm PU, but popular in mahogany.

If you're wanting a hot bridge PU for your Tele, a bright JB or warm CC might work, depending on your tastes. You owe it to yourself to try some Duncan's, great PU's and lots to choose from. There is a Duncan for everyone.

 

[CTN]

Re: "For brighter / warmer instruments"

weird, I find the JB (stock) sounds terrible in bright guitars. the mid spike is way more audible to me. I prefer it in mahogany, but that's not saying much. I really dislike the JB. It's like that spike in the upper mids is matched with a brutal (in a bad way) reduction in the low mids, so it has absolutely no beefy growl to my ears.

 

[blueman335]

Re: "For brighter / warmer instruments"

weird, I find the JB (stock) sounds terrible in bright guitars. the mid spike is way more audible to me. I prefer it in mahogany, but that's not saying much. I really dislike the JB. It's like that spike in the upper mids is matched with a brutal (in a bad way) reduction in the low mids, so it has absolutely no beefy growl to my ears.

I agree with you about the stock JB; tried several in several different guitars, and it was annoying. But after reading positive feedback about the A2 JB, I decided to try it. Big difference. The spike & excess treble is gone, and it has some 'beef' behind it now. It's a whole new PU with a mag swap.

 

[frankfalbo]

Re: "For brighter / warmer instruments"

Here's what I think is missing so far from this discussion: I think when we say something like "If you have a bright guitar, Alnico II can warm it up" it's coming from the position that YOU think your guitar is TOO bright right now. We're already assuming you have a reason to change your pickups. With OEM's, sometimes you'll see our pickups chosen to "balance" the materials and construction of a guitar, because the OEM wants a balanced, pleasing sounding instrument.

But let's get down to brass tacks: I have 40 guitars. I have some bright pickups in bright guitars! I have some warm pickups in warm guitars, too. Sometimes you go "all in" because you want to make the guitar a tool for certain jobs. That's the joy for me. The joy for me when I build a guitar is not to make something that sounds as flat and even as possible. Where's the personality in that?! Some guys run lipstick tube pickups through treble boosters into a Vox because they want to tear your head off, and maybe the other guitarist is playing SG's through a cranked Bassman.

But if you don't have 40 guitars, and you think your guitar is bright, then our advice becomes helpful. And remember this, most people who are looking to Seymour Duncan for pickup advice are currently playing a guitar that they think is too ________ or not enough ________ or else they wouldn't be seeking the information.

To the original poster: You can't go wrong with any of the pickups you've mentioned. If you think you're making a bright guitar, and that worries you, then you should gravitate toward AII, and don't forget the Pearly Gates neck, which would be my personal recommendation. But if you're not worried, and you want to augment the brightness of the instrument, then you can go to the Jazz and you'll have an extremely clear, articulate neck pickup sound.

 

[misterwhizzy]

Re: "For brighter / warmer instruments"

And, that's also general, but, since we touched upon it, I don't believe too much in spending your life (and money) on endless tonequests - one should be able to get a workable sound on any guitar from 1-2 tries and I don't think that reading descriptions or whatever with this objective is something to be ashamed of.

Trust me, dude, listening to these guys put my tone quest to an end quicker and cheaper than I would have been able to do otherwise. I don't feel like I'm compromising, and I didn't have to replace pickups. What I had was close, but there were still problems.

I bought a set of pickups and wasn't really satisfied with them. Instead of dropping another $150, I dropped $30 on magnets. The other thing is that there's no guarantee either way that I'd be happy. Now I'm fairly certain that the $150 would NOT have gotten me what I got from the $30.

Plus, I think there's a lot of OCD resident on this board, and people will not be satisfied with anything less than EXACTLY what's in his or her head. Unfortunately, the only prescription for that is more tweaking.

 

[stringster]

Re: "For brighter / warmer instruments"

Here's what I think is missing so far from this discussion ...

(not quoting the entire post to spare space, but referring to all of it)
Sounds to me like this nailed it. Cheers, man:beerchug:!