Forum design vote #5.10 (Hybrid?)

[DarkMatter]

This poll will determine whether or not we proceed with a hybrid concept on the humbucker side. Having a neck hybrid that is matched with the 59/Custom seems to be the most agreed upon idea. To increase appeal, we need to have a set. How we frame all of this is important.

1. Neck must be well matched in tonality, and output to the 59/Custom.
2. Bridge is currently undefined. Possibly voiced with contrast to neck and 59/Custom. Possibly a modified 59/Custom.
Doesn't even have to be a hybrid.
3. Low to moderate output.
4. Original coil design. Nothing that can be made with production coils.

We can still discuss these conditions as we go. This is not the final poll for the design.

 

[Myaccount876]

Re: Forum design vote #5.10 (Hybrid?)

No problem with those conditions. I'm on board for a new design, and a modified '59/Custom Hybrid.

 

[DarkMatter]

Re: Forum design vote #5.10 (Hybrid?)

I figured it would be good to go ahead and finalize both of the designs before the final vote. There are still some things to figure out for each one.

 

[VHTJay]

Re: Forum design vote #5.10 (Hybrid?)

Alright. Just finished up rocking on Itsabass's modified 59/C hybrid idea. The pickup is a hybrid using a '59 NECK's slug coil and the screw coil of a Custom with the Customs ceramic magnet.

The guitar used was a Gibson Les Paul standard with 300k pots and Thomastik Infeld powerbright 10-50 strings. Tuning was standard and drop D.

Amp used: Hughes and Kettner Tri-amp mk2 through a Mesa cabinet with Celestion vintage 30's. I also played for about an hour with the production hybrid in, just to reference.

So, here is what I heard,

PROS:
Tons of harmonics, cuts like crazy, super tight low end and quick attack, very clear....almost a clean tone superimposed on dirty when using an overdriven sound.

CONS: This pickup, even in this Lester (which is normally fairly warm acoustically ) is BRIGHT! Holy moly. Tighter and brighter than neon yellow spandex. It is a very treble dominant pickup, and definitely sounded better when I dropped down to D, which ate up some highs, but stayed very tight and clear.

CONCLUSION: Definitely some potential. Love the clarity and tightness....might make a KILLER hot neck unit. I also want to try this with a few different magnets. Hopefully tomorrow. If I were doing this as a custom pickup to myself, I would ask MJ to tweak the wind for a little less up top.

 

[LtKojak]

Re: Forum design vote #5.10 (Hybrid?)

No problem with those conditions. I'm on board for a new design, and a modified '59/Custom Hybrid.

If the modified '59/Custom means two screw coils, to be had as a set with the new neck p'up to be designed, I'm on board too.

HTH,

 

[DarkMatter]

Re: Forum design vote #5.10 (Hybrid?)

If the modified '59/Custom means two screw coils, to be had as a set with the new neck p'up to be designed, I'm on board too.

HTH,

I'm a big fan of double screw coil bridge pickups.

 

[KeeperOS]

Re: Forum design vote #5.10 (Hybrid?)

Hey hey hey, let's not dismiss my brilliant idea for the bridge pu of the possible set just yet, I'm still salivating in the idea for a pickup with the tonality of the Pearly Gates and the clarity and tightness of the Alternate 8

 

[DarkMatter]

Re: Forum design vote #5.10 (Hybrid?)

On the double screw coils, I wonder if we could each choose that personally when placing the order, just like you would choose bobbin color. Is it a Shop Floor Custom option?

Either way, that gets into spec talk... a slippery slope.

 

[Myaccount876]

Re: Forum design vote #5.10 (Hybrid?)

Just let the CS decide on slugs vs screws.

 

[LtKojak]

Re: Forum design vote #5.10 (Hybrid?)

On the double screw coils, I wonder if we could each choose that personally when placing the order, just like you would choose bobbin color. Is it a Shop Floor Custom option?

Either way, that gets into spec talk... a slippery slope.

On the contrary, the double row of screws actually is "means to an end": Let me explain it to you:

1. as the same coil sounds a little bit different with screws and slugs, to fine-tune the coils to work together, they MUST be an integral part of the design, specially if we're asking for an HYBRID neck p'up.

2. the two-row of screws allows to individually set every single string in two harmonic nodes up to 3,5%, which allows to compensate the output of every string or fine-tune the degree of coil-offsetting. Hence the specific request on my part. I'll even be game if the screws are hex-headed, like in the Full-shred, although I must confess the regular screws "look better", if I may say so.

This design's flexibility is far more important on the NECK p'up than on the bridge, which being two-slugged, two-screwed or traditional screw/slug almost doesn't matter, because of the location, where strings don't move at all, so one screw row is sufficient to balance the inherent output difference of the strings, the rest is set by the p'ups distance from the strings.

HTH,

 

[DarkMatter]

Re: Forum design vote #5.10 (Hybrid?)

Any more thoughts on this bridge pickup? Other ideas for the set?

 

[KeeperOS]

Re: Forum design vote #5.10 (Hybrid?)

Ahem...

 

[VHTJay]

Re: Forum design vote #5.10 (Hybrid?)

So tone wise, where are we for ideas?

Modified C/59...tweaked for aggressive upper mid attack and clarity
78/PG....just a killer hot PAF....I can't see this not being a win! Haha!
PG/ALT8/modern hybrid....PG tone, with modern capabilities....ie: clarity and tightness. Could also see this as being killer!!

Any others?

I am ok with any standard type bobbin layout: screws and slugs or double screws. While I am a fan of the double screw design, I agree that this should be left to the discretion of the Custom shop. It is indeed a slippery slope. The Fuglybucker started off with the idea of being a twin screw design....then look what happened....

 

[Lampy H]

Re: Forum design vote #5.10 (Hybrid?)

I like the idea of a hot-rodded 59/C hybrid, with a neck pickup to work well with both possible hybrid models. A la The Sentient , Pegasus, and Nazgul.

 

[DarkMatter]

Re: Forum design vote #5.10 (Hybrid?)

I like the idea of a hot-rodded 59/C hybrid, with a neck pickup to work well with both possible hybrid models. A la The Sentient , Pegasus, and Nazgul.

This is a good way to describe what you would like. So you want a hybrid style Nazgul. That sounds cool actually. Not a pure monster, but still having serious teeth.

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: Forum design vote #5.10 (Hybrid?)

So tone wise, where are we for ideas?

Modified C/59...tweaked for aggressive upper mid attack and clarity
78/PG....just a killer hot PAF....I can't see this not being a win! Haha!
PG/ALT8/modern hybrid....PG tone, with modern capabilities....ie: clarity and tightness. Could also see this as being killer!!

Any others?

I am ok with any standard type bobbin layout: screws and slugs or double screws. While I am a fan of the double screw design, I agree that this should be left to the discretion of the Custom shop. It is indeed a slippery slope. The Fuglybucker started off with the idea of being a twin screw design....then look what happened....

On the tweaked '59/C (not the neck model we're talking about), I'd want more clarity and more high end than a regular '59/C. I liked the hybrid qualities of the stock '59/C I had, but it was still too thick to me. I'd wan't something that hit the amp with less power, and that really screamed on the high end, while still having that special slightly-single-coily hybrid sound that nothing but a significant coil mismatch can provide. It's also be great if we could opt to buy it un-potted.

I'd want standard screw/slug bobbins, because I would want the pickup to look stock, covered or uncovered.

For the neck model, my idea from the beginning of the voting still might work: Use a Seth neck coil and a Seth bridge coil for an approx. 7.5k hybrid that has an approx. 500K coil mismatch. Not only would this go well with the tweaked bridge model, but people who are more "vintage" oriented could also use two of them to make a vintage-style equally wound pickup set. This gives something to the '59/C people who want a matching neck pickup, and at the same time it gives something to those after classic tone. It seems to me like it would have very broad appeal and sell pretty well.

 

[VHTJay]

Re: Forum design vote #5.10 (Hybrid?)

I don't know of you had a chance, but I did a brief review of your design (59 coil from a neck pickup mated to a Custom coil and a ceramic magnet) and what you are wanting is exactly what that version of the hybrid does! To a T, actually. There is actually quite a bit of that single coil "snap" in there (especially clean....but it even presents when distorted). It never really smoothes out like what happens when you gain up most bright humbuckers which I thought was interesting.

In comparison, it is more single-coiley and much brighter than the regular hybrid. Less chunk and less midrange. I am gonna try with other magnets when I get a chance as it is still in the Les Paul. While I like some aspects of it, it is just too bright for me!

 

[KeeperOS]

Re: Forum design vote #5.10 (Hybrid?)

A Seth anything hybrid is out as people voted for hotter vintage and medium modern so we are basically all in agreement that vintage PAFs are out. Still, that doesn't mean we need to get the pickups to scorching outputs, there is such a thing as too much of a good thing.

If we were to read the poll results in conjunction with the hybrid idea that's clearly widely accepted we come to the conclusion that people want the CS to use the hybrid concept (if not construction, remember, we said we'd ultimately leave this to the CS) to combine the best of both world which, IMO is the character and beautiful tonality of the old-school pickups (I hate the word "Vintage") with the clarity and articulation (tightness does come into play here although it's not a given) of more modern approaches.

And just to be clear, the reason I mentioned the Alt8 was because, to me, it came very close to the S.Demon in terms of clarity and articulation without sounding as sterile and revealing as the Demon does. Obviously that doesn't mean we should use an actual Alt8 bobbin nor even go for that pickup's unique character. That IS something we should decide as a whole.

BUT what has ALREADY been decided IMO is that we want a marriage of the vintage (character) and modern (clarity/articulation).

To that are there any disagreements?

 

[ItsaBass]

Forum design vote #5.10 (Hybrid?)

A Seth anything hybrid is out as people voted for hotter vintage and medium modern so we are basically all in agreement that vintage PAFs are out. Still, that doesn't mean we need to get the pickups to scorching outputs, there is such a thing as too much of a good thing.

If we were to read the poll results in conjunction with the hybrid idea that's clearly widely accepted we come to the conclusion that people want the CS to use the hybrid concept (if not construction, remember, we said we'd ultimately leave this to the CS) to combine the best of both world which, IMO is the character and beautiful tonality of the old-school pickups (I hate the word "Vintage") with the clarity and articulation (tightness does come into play here although it's not a given) of more modern approaches.

That is what the tweaked 59/C could be. It has been announced by a decision outside of voting that we're asking for a neck hybrid that plays well with both the tweaked 59/C and the stock 59/C. When that happened, and he opened up the floor to suggestion on how to achieve both of those ideas, it pretty much eliminated the strict adherence to the old polls from before he wanted to quit. Ws've had suggestions for super hot hybrids as well, which is farther away from the voted in idea than what I suggested. Besides, neck match to a hot vintage or low output modern could very well be what I suggested. Many neck pickups for hot vintage, cool modern, and even high output modern pickups are well within vintage territory.

 

[KeeperOS]

Re: Forum design vote #5.10 (Hybrid?)

I could be wrong now (I HIGHLY doubt it though) but the design proposed is for the NECK, NOT the bridge, the bridge being either calibrated for the neck or a hotter version that still pairs up with it...

Specifically, the initial plan was to build a neck that pairs up with the current C/59 hybrid that is a bridge pickup and then branched on to the possibility of having a new bridge of its' own. People could get just the neck to pair with a C/59 bridge that they already have or they could get both as a dedicated set.