Forum design vote #6 (again)

[DarkMatter]

Let's hope this one doesn't end in a tie. This vote will be public and will stay open till the end of April. If you have contacts with any forum bros that don't come by much but might be interested in either of these, please tell them to come and vote.

The candidates.

1. Zebro is a split coil design like a Pbass pickup. It will be under a cover and look like a reguIar humbucker but with only 3 poles per coil. It will combine single coil aspects with hum cancelling. The voicing will be based on a P90, aggressive, full, great harmonics. Frank Falbo made a wonderful suggestion about using 3 magnets to address any anomalies with the design. Whether or not we include this in our proposal to the Custom Shop is yet to be determined. The major drawback with this design will be the cost due to custom fabrication.


2. The hybrid concept is based on getting a good hybrid pickup in the neck position to pair with the 59/Custom. It will be made as a original set, the voicing starts with the 59/Custom but will have more upper mid focus, more controlled bass, cleaner, clearer. It will still have the hybrid complexity. Whether it will be made with 2 different wire gauges, or just have mismatched coils is yet to be determined.

 

[dominus]

Re: Forum design vote #6 (again)

Let's hope this one doesn't end in a tie. This vote will be public and will stay open till the end of April. If you have contacts with any forum bros that don't come by much but might be interested in either of these, please tell them to come and vote.

The candidates.

1. Zebro is a split coil design like a Pbass pickup. It will be under a cover and look like a reguIar humbucker but with only 3 poles per coil. It will combine single coil aspects with hum cancelling. The voicing will be based on a P90, aggressive, full, great harmonics. Frank Falbo made a wonderful suggestion about using 3 magnets to address any anomalies with the design. Whether or not we include this in our proposal to the Custom Shop is yet to be determined. The major drawback with this design will be the cost due to custom fabrication.


2. The hybrid concept is based on getting a good hybrid pickup in the neck position to pair with the 59/Custom. It will be made as a original set, the voicing starts with the 59/Custom but will have more upper mid focus, more controlled bass, cleaner, clearer. It will still have the hybrid complexity. Whether it will be made with 2 different wire gauges, or just have mismatched coils is yet to be determined.

Just making this clear. Plenty will vote and no one will buy it.

 

[DarkMatter]

Re: Forum design vote #6 (again)

Just making this clear. Plenty will vote and no one will buy it.

Judging by the first vote, FEW will vote, even fewer will buy. But we're still seeing this through.

 

[DreX]

Re: Forum design vote #6 (again)

For me, it would make more sense to cast a vote when those Zebro details were worked out. IMO, whether the coils are half sized or not doesn't matter so long as there are only three pole pieces per coil, because the portion of the coil closest to the poles induct the most, so whether the less productive part of the coil is on the outside of a short coil, or to one side of a thin coil shouldn't matter a whole lot. Plus it allows for more coil wrapping area, so the custom shop would be able to target a P-90-like resonant peak without having to resort to super thin and delicate wire, both of which should decrease production cost.

Before I vote for the Zebro though, I'd want to know that a) they can put flanking magnets like Frank suggested (and I don't think it even matters if they are snapped in half since the pole pieces are gone and it's "air coil" on the other side anyway), and b) that I can have exposed coils without six empty holes, because if they can't do this, I might as well take a JB and just remove three screws and pop out three pole pieces and save some money.

I know there are humbuckers with flanking magnets out there, but I don't know which, if any, Duncan's are like this. Does anyone know?

Regarding sales, if it's P-90 voiced, it will probably sell better than if it's made to have a lower output wind. Most people don't buy something for a humbucker route if it will result in a Fender-like tone, and vice versa.

 

[DreX]

Re: Forum design vote #6 (again)

Judging by the first vote, FEW will vote, even fewer will buy. But we're still seeing this through.

I bought a set of StraBro 90s because I saw them on the Custom Shops site. It might have more appeal to future/non-forum members than it does current forum members.

 

[GilmourD]

Re: Forum design vote #6 (again)

I'm not sure which way I'd go...

If the hybrid idea got voted on, there's already a neck '59. Would the matching neck hybrid be made from a neck '59 coil and a coil from the imaginary neck Custom (which could become a pickup in its own right, so win-win for Duncan on this one).

 

[DarkMatter]

Re: Forum design vote #6 (again)

Gilmour, the plan is for the hybrid to have original coils

 

[Condemned soul]

Re: Forum design vote #6 (again)

"If the hybrid idea got voted on, there's already a neck '59. Would the matching neck hybrid be made from a neck '59 coil and a coil from the imaginary neck Custom (which could become a pickup in its own right, so win-win for Duncan on this one)."


Have a 59/Custom in a maple capped LP. I'm not satisfied with the 59, Jazz, or a WLH neck pickups. I'm tempted to try a DMZ 36 Ann. neck. Was thinking about contacting the CS pickup for a pickup when poll #6V1 showed its ungainly head. Really would like to see where this poll leads us as I might be a purchaser.

 

[DarkMatter]

Re: Forum design vote #6 (again)

For me, it would make more sense to cast a vote when those Zebro details were worked out. IMO, whether the coils are half sized or not doesn't matter so long as there are only three pole pieces per coil, because the portion of the coil closest to the poles induct the most, so whether the less productive part of the coil is on the outside of a short coil, or to one side of a thin coil shouldn't matter a whole lot. Plus it allows for more coil wrapping area, so the custom shop would be able to target a P-90-like resonant peak without having to resort to super thin and delicate wire, both of which should decrease production cost.

Before I vote for the Zebro though, I'd want to know that a) they can put flanking magnets like Frank suggested (and I don't think it even matters if they are snapped in half since the pole pieces are gone and it's "air coil" on the other side anyway), and b) that I can have exposed coils without six empty holes, because if they can't do this, I might as well take a JB and just remove three screws and pop out three pole pieces and save some money.

I know there are humbuckers with flanking magnets out there, but I don't know which, if any, Duncan's are like this. Does anyone know?

Regarding sales, if it's P-90 voiced, it will probably sell better than if it's made to have a lower output wind. Most people don't buy something for a humbucker route if it will result in a Fender-like tone, and vice versa.

I think we should go ahead and stick to the half coil concept. There are magnets that can be cut in half and will fit on the sides. I actually have some that are the same thickness as a standard humbucker magnet. I'm not sure how hum-canceling will affect resonant peaks, but it seems logical that 2 half coils would give the whole pickup more single coil like properties than 2 full coils with only 3 poles. As far as exposed coils, I'm not sure why you would want that. This is designed for a humbucker rout and it would look really bad without a full cover. I'm assuming they would use a humbucker baseplate to save on fabrication.

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: Forum design vote #6 (again)

The fact that the hybrid is being called a hybrid, when it isn't, is definitely costing it some votes, based on several peoples' stated reasoning for not voting for it ("Why bother making a forum pickup if it's nothing but a hybrid using existing coils?"). If it wasn't for that, it would have won the last poll and would be being manufactured right now (if not in our hands already). Again in this vote, it being mis-named on the ballot gives the other pickup an unfair advantage. One pickup gets a snazzy model name, and the other gets a relatively dull descriptive term that does not even apply to the pickup.

 

[misterwhizzy]

Re: Forum design vote #6 (again)

I haven't followed the process, because the threads in the Pickup Lounge are repetitive, at best, but has this been the disaster it appears to be now the whole time?

 

[VHTJay]

Re: Forum design vote #6 (again)

I don't know if I would call it a disaster, but with what has transpired I am a little confused and really have no idea what to vote for now!

 

[DarkMatter]

Re: Forum design vote #6 (again)

The fact that the hybrid is being called a hybrid, when it isn't, is definitely costing it some votes, based on several peoples' stated reasoning for not voting for it ("Why bother making a forum pickup if it's nothing but a hybrid using existing coils?"). If it wasn't for that, it would have won the last poll and would be being manufactured right now (if not in our hands already). Again in this vote, it being mis-named on the ballot gives the other pickup an unfair advantage. One pickup gets a snazzy model name, and the other gets a relatively dull descriptive term that does not even apply to the pickup.

But it is supposed to be a hybrid. That's what many, many people suggested in the very beginning and kept voting for. Regardless, in the op I leave open the possibility that it could be just mismatched coils of the same wire gage.

 

[mxmann]

Re: Forum design vote #6 (again)

Call it the Hy-Bro?

:laugh:

 

[DreX]

Re: Forum design vote #6 (again)

I'm not sure how hum-canceling will affect resonant peaks, but it seems logical that 2 half coils would give the whole pickup more single coil like properties than 2 full coils with only 3 poles.

It's not too hard to figure out how a longer coil would affect the tone. Suppose you were take a Screamin' Demon and remove all twelve pole pieces, it probably would make very little sound. That's about how much contribution to the tone you'd not get from the "air coil" sides.

The other thing is that a standard humbucker has tonal characteristics that are due to comb filtering, which is where the positive anti-node over one coil has a corresponding negative anti node over the other, causing that particular wave length to cancel out. With the six opposing pole pieces removed, that won't happen, so it should sound "single coil" in that sense also.

The resonant peak comes down to how hot the winds are, I'm sure they can get the resonant peak to around 5kHz with full or half sized bobbins. The difference would be in the gauge of wire used. Personally I think thicker wire results in better sounding pickups, so that's another reason I'd opt for the long bobbins.

As far as exposed coils, I'm not sure why you would want that. This is designed for a humbucker rout and it would look really bad without a full cover. I'm assuming they would use a humbucker baseplate to save on fabrication.

If they had long bobbins and could somehow fill the empty holes with pigmented molding plastic (doesn't have to look perfect, just not "unfinished") then the pickup could be fit into guitars that look better without two big shinny gold or chrome covers, which accounts for about half of my HH guitar personally, as well as address the concerns of those who think covers introduce too many tone sucking eddy currents.

Regarding the 'Hybro', I still think we should just ask for both. Supposing they're not going to offer a group discount, we could have a dozen forum pickups for all it matters. The most important thing is that people actually buy the thing, review it, make sound clips, act like a community, yada yada.

 

[Demanic]

Re: Forum design vote #6 (again)

I just heard a sound clip of a 59/Custom hybrid, and I am seriously considering it for my Schecter Blackjack, and would love a neck to pair with it. That is if I don't go with a set of Black Winters. Hmm, or maybe a BW bridge with this new hybrid neck...

 

[LtKojak]

Re: Forum design vote #6 (again)

If I may, IME, refining the already "proven" '59/Jazz combo should be a good starting point, The only two specs I'm submitting for proposal are:

1.Two screw coils, for max tweakability in both string output balance and harmonic node reading.

2. Even though the two-screw coils design is, by design, reversible, (pun intended) my idea is the '59 coil being the one placed towards the bridge and the Jazz coil facing the neck.

Just thinking outloud... bit if somebody else agrees, it could be an idea to say so?

What say you...?

 

[Demanic]

Re: Forum design vote #6 (again)

How about a reverse hex/screw sort of like the Demon? Everyone always comments on how great a neck pickup it is, how about with mismatched coils and the hex side moved closest to the fretboard? With a UOA5 stock.
When split, it would put the screw coil closer to the sweet spot, at least in a 24 fret longer scale guitar. Thus lending to even more tuneability.

 

[Swyse]

Re: Forum design vote #6 (again)

The fact that the hybrid is being called a hybrid, when it isn't, is definitely costing it some votes, based on several peoples' stated reasoning for not voting for it ("Why bother making a forum pickup if it's nothing but a hybrid using existing coils?"). If it wasn't for that, it would have won the last poll and would be being manufactured right now (if not in our hands already). Again in this vote, it being mis-named on the ballot gives the other pickup an unfair advantage. One pickup gets a snazzy model name, and the other gets a relatively dull descriptive term that does not even apply to the pickup.

I think the zebro concept not being flushed out for form-factor cost it some votes as well, being that all it has going for it is form-factor.

But it is supposed to be a hybrid. That's what many, many people suggested in the very beginning and kept voting for. Regardless, in the op I leave open the possibility that it could be just mismatched coils of the same wire gage.

A hybrid implies preexisting coils to many, including myself. I believe we want the best the custom shop can provide, not the best the custom shop can slap together from existing coils. I don't personally care in what way the Hy-bro achieves its mismatch for its "hybrid" character, whether it be by winds, different coil wires, or both as long as the sound is there.

Call it the Hy-Bro?

:laugh:

I think this is a step in the right direction, so I'm all for calling it the hy-bro.

 

[Davii]

Re: Forum design vote #6 (again)

I'm interested in the Zebro, as a concept, but if the Hybro mofo fills a spot people have been after to go with 59/Custom, then that would make sense.

Would be a shame not to pursue the Zebro idea either way though