Frank or Evan: Any chance of seeing a "hybrid" production model?

IanBallard

IanBallard

New member
Seems like a popular thing here, lots of people have done it (including myself) and the results/reviews seem to be unanimously good.

Take two of the most popular and versatile Seymour winds, put 'em together and it might be a killer seller.
 
Re: Frank or Evan: Any chance of seeing a "hybrid" production model?

IanBallard said:
Seems like a popular thing here, lots of people have done it (including myself) and the results/reviews seem to be unanimously good.

Take two of the most popular and versatile Seymour winds, put 'em together and it might be a killer seller.
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If you're considering this forum mirrors the actual market, you'll out for an unpleasent surprise, I'm afraid.

Most guitarists out there don't know and/or don't care 'bout p'ups and their importance in the tone chain which, incidentally, are placed low in the scale.

Speakers are the single most important element, IMNSHO.
 
Re: Frank or Evan: Any chance of seeing a "hybrid" production model?

IanBallard said:
lots of people have done it (including myself) and the results/reviews seem to be unanimously good.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, this self-selecting group of people is pre-disposed to dig the results of such pickup experiments.

Ian, you have the necessary level of interest to form a good idea of what your hybrid is likely to sound like and the experience to judge how successful each experiment has been. Most punters have neither. They just want to buy a product that they believe will make them sound like their favourite artiste(s).
 
Re: Frank or Evan: Any chance of seeing a "hybrid" production model?

Yeah, I thought Dimarzio had a patent on mismatched coils or something?

If it's fine from a legal standpoint then I think it's a decent idea. Everything I've heard has been positive so I don't see why it would be any riskier to add to the line than any other new product.

Personally, I'd love to try one but I'm too chicken to actually make one so I'm all for it. :fingersx:
 
Re: Frank or Evan: Any chance of seeing a "hybrid" production model?

DiMarzio's Dual Resonance patent expired almost 8 years ago. Not an issue. Their horizontally offset coils (reduced string pull/increased sustain) patent expired as well.

Their Air patent dies in about 21 months, too.

Virtual Vintage (inductance increased by hidden ferrous material) has almost 6 years to go, though. 'Course, you could just not hide it. Exposed screws between the slugs/other screws... Too bad cosmetics seem to matter more than function, on something that can't be differentiated from 10' away.

Anyways, even if DR patent was still in effect, it still wouldn't cover the hybrid design of the forum, as it's considerably mismatched, rather than perfectly hum-cancelling. A different approach, that sacrifices a bit of noise resistance for more mids from the coil with finer wire.

If DiMarzio wanted to argue with the hybrid design, they'd likely lose on prior art, as that approach was done in the 70s. Oh, and their patented Dual Resonance in passives? It's just a passive version of what EMG was doing in actives, but EMG's old patent only covered actives... Which is rather funny, since most EMGs are extremely overwound for actives, with resistances high enough to be usable as lowish output passives.
 
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Re: Frank or Evan: Any chance of seeing a "hybrid" production model?

I THINK....THINK...that DMZ'z 2x Resonance is related to using two different gauges of wire in a mismatched humbucker. For example, 42AWG one coil and 43AWG the other.

If that's true then a regular hybrid with just one kind of wire wouldn't pose a problem.

But no, I would not think it's a feasible enterprise for Duncan production. The demand for such a good is ridiculously low. Way lower than regular aftermarket pickups, which in itself is also pretty low compared to the demand for guitars.

That's what Duncan CS is for. For us freaks :D
 
Re: Frank or Evan: Any chance of seeing a "hybrid" production model?

why so glum guys? ....im sure somebody at SDunc has seen the BachtoRock ginormous thread and brought it up- and this is the company that brought us the Custom and the Brobucker. It seems like a perfectly reasonable question, and it would seem only a serious legal reason not to. its easy to imagine twenty years from now people selling awesome sounding used guitars that date back to when hybrids became all the rage.
 
Re: Frank or Evan: Any chance of seeing a "hybrid" production model?

I just built mine(CC slug coil/59b screw coil, A2 mag) and it is a great pup. i would like to see a production run of it:14:
 
Re: Frank or Evan: Any chance of seeing a "hybrid" production model?

I think it is interesting that the Hybrid thread is the first thing you see at the top of the forum. That seems to imply a certain level of endorsement or support for the concept. ;)
 
Re: Frank or Evan: Any chance of seeing a "hybrid" production model?

It could be a forum special like the Brobucker. But at the same time, it's pretty easy to make one of your own.
 
Re: Frank or Evan: Any chance of seeing a "hybrid" production model?

Zhangliqun said:
It could be a forum special like the Brobucker. But at the same time, it's pretty easy to make one of your own.
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Oh no.. I can see us trying to decide on this... I want a CC slug/59screw, No, I want a CC screw 59 slug all the way thru the model roster. haha Thats Before we even get to magnets... :eyecrazy:
 
Re: Frank or Evan: Any chance of seeing a "hybrid" production model?

tc said:
I THINK....THINK...that DMZ'z 2x Resonance is related to using two different gauges of wire in a mismatched humbucker. For example, 42AWG one coil and 43AWG the other.

If that's true then a regular hybrid with just one kind of wire wouldn't pose a problem.
Click to expand...
Especially SINCE THE PATENT EXPIRED.
 
Re: Frank or Evan: Any chance of seeing a "hybrid" production model?

BloodRose said:
Oh no.. I can see us trying to decide on this... I want a CC slug/59screw, No, I want a CC screw 59 slug all the way thru the model roster. haha Thats Before we even get to magnets... :eyecrazy:
Click to expand...

:lmao: You're totally right on that one...and having said that, I want CC screw/59 slug, A8 :thanks: :approve:
 
Re: Frank or Evan: Any chance of seeing a "hybrid" production model?

The DiMarzio patent explicitly only applied to using two different wire auges to then arrive at the same number of winds and hence hum-freeness.
 
Re: Frank or Evan: Any chance of seeing a "hybrid" production model?

IIRC, the Dimarzio design used two different gages, with each coil being the same DC.... e.g, one coil with 44awg with 7k and one with 43 also wound to 7k. This makes the hum-cancelling most effective, while giving unique tonal properties of an underwound 44 coil with a more optimised 43, etc.

The only problem with the SD hybrids is that the DC is often different enough to not cancel as much hum as a balanced coil situation. But the tonal benefits supersede that problem, IMO.
 
Re: Frank or Evan: Any chance of seeing a "hybrid" production model?

^ nope
same number of turns.
different gauges and different DC readings.
 
Re: Frank or Evan: Any chance of seeing a "hybrid" production model?

To expand on Dr. Ad's comment, hum-cancelling is determined by number of turns, which is why they can do things like use fine wire for the hum-cancelling coil that's isolated from the polepieces in a stack.

An issue with DiMarzio's Dual Resonance approach is that most people want the mids from a hot coil of thinner wire, and the highs from a cooler coil of thicker wire. DR forces the reverse, have to get the mids elsewhere.

I wonder if the hum cancelling tuning Seymour Duncan does with the Stack Plus line could be applied to hybrid pickups?

The Blackout preamp's active hum cancellation would probably help, too, but that wanders away from the balance of PAF & hot qualities a lot of people like about the forum hybrid...
 
Re: Frank or Evan: Any chance of seeing a "hybrid" production model?

The Dimarzio thing is by number of turns, as said.

IIRC a Duncan awg43 coil (DC) and a awg44 coil (JB/DD) should have about the same # of turns, but a SD PAF coil noticeably less. So a PG/CC hybrid wouldn't be all hum canceling.
 
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