Fret level on a compound radius neck?

[GuitarDoc]

Put some relief in the neck, or the action is too low. My bet is on the neck not having any relief. Capo the first fret, touch the last fret. Somewhere around the 7th-8th fret check with a feeler gauge. Should be able to get a .010" between the top of the fret and the bottom of the string. If you can't, adjust the truss rod until you can. Let the neck sit for a little bit to stabilize and then check it again. Once it's good, set your action keeping with the radius you have at the bridge. It takes some tweaking but well worth it once set.

And yes, there should be a little bit of fallaway at the higher frets like described and shown in the video you referenced.

Actually, more relief is going to exacerbate the problem. Falloff in the upper frets will help.
Relief creates a concave fretboard, falloff essentially creates a convex fretboard. By tightening the trussrod further you create the same convexity as filing down the upper frets (falloff, or fallaway).

 

[ErikH]

Actually, more relief is going to exacerbate the problem. Falloff in the upper frets will help.
Relief creates a concave fretboard, falloff essentially creates a convex fretboard. By tightening the trussrod further you create the same convexity as filing down the upper frets (falloff, or fallaway).

Ok, I see. Makes sense. Shouldn't take much to make that happen, 1/4 to less than a 1/4 turn. Too much and then there's backbow that could cause problems in the middle of the neck I would think.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Shouldn't take much at all.

 

[blakejcan]

thanks all. I'll work on the fallaway. I laid a straightedge across the frets and could see the tiniest bit of daylight between the fret and the edge up until about the 14th fret. Then it got perfectly level again.

I'm hoping that adding some fallaway from there down will get it where I want it to be.

I can't really jack up the saddles anymore. They are all close to maxed out.

 

[blakejcan]

Tried to add in some fallaway and played with the truss rod a bit. Still not there.

I am missing something obvious here

 

[Clint 55]

Thought about it and you have 3 options:

1. Get deep with the luthiery and you're going to have to really sight what is going on and do some high tech luthiery with the fret work and set up.
2. Take it to a luthier.
3. Sell it and get a straight radius neck.

About #1. If the set up is reasonable and it won't play without buzzing, it is by definition the frets that are not level. With my fret jobs, although I like medium action, I can take the action all the way down low and have every note play perfectly. There's no magic precise set up that's really hard to figure out that will stop the buzz if the frets are not level. If the set up is reasonable and it's not playing, you have to accept that it's the frets. If you're committed to doing your own frets, you have to get it together and get em level with fallaway at the heel.

I've never leveled a compound radius neck so I can't advise you about the best technique. I might favor just free handing the thing with one of these, rather than trying to do one fret at a time like in your video. Ime, you have to be able to span several frets to make sure you'll sand in clearance.

https://www.temu.com/ul/kuiper/un9....SO84PmuBLJNW8tnwFxXhDybqhUipPLBRoCP5kQAvD_BwE

 

[blakejcan]

Yea, I think you're right. Just not level.

I'm determined to figure it out. I might take it to my local shop and ask for some guidance.

 

[GuitarDoc]

:19: OK everybody, hold onto your hats. I am inclined to actually agree with Clint here.

 

[blakejcan]

I gave in and handed it over to the local shop. I offered to pay him extra if I could watch him fix it so I could learn.

He laughed.

I was serious.

 

[ICTGoober]

He laughed.

I was serious.

I'm sure you were, Blake.
Back when my shop was in a store guys used to ask me that all the time. I always said no.
Time is money, questions slow me down, and teaching them how to do it takes money out of my pocket. I'd be STUPID to do it.
Look at it from their viewpoint.

It's also why I had an apprenticeship program to weed out the wanna-be's. You're not, of course - but so many people have NO IDEA the amount of skill brought to the bench by an experienced craftsman, plus all the tools. It's an investment in time and money, neither of which I wish to squander.

 

[blakejcan]

oh yea, all good. I just thought it was funny.

 

[ErikH]

About 15 years ago I had one of my guitars worked on by a local luthier. It was for fretwork. It's a compound radius neck and he showed me how he does fret work and using the tools. Even went so far as to let me file a couple and crown them. Really nice guy and still does work. He used to work for Jackson/Charvel when they had a Fort Worth location back in the day. It still took me a long time to get the courage to do fret work myself but during the pandemic shutdown, it was the perfect opportunity as I had a couple guitars that needed some attention.

 

[blakejcan]

update--local guy says it might need a neck shim. Kinda suprising since it's a warmoth neck & body. We shall see.

 

[Clint 55]

Neck shim when the saddles are maxed out?

 

[ErikH]

Interesting. Could mean it needs a shim at the outter edge of the neck pocket but I think something else is going on. I wonder if the neck pocket is not routed flat or even deep enough. Can't say I've ran in to this with my Warmoth.

 

[Clint 55]

Get it PLEK'd.

 

[blakejcan]

Interesting. Could mean it needs a shim at the outter edge of the neck pocket but I think something else is going on. I wonder if the neck pocket is not routed flat or even deep enough. Can't say I've ran in to this with my Warmoth.

right? it all seems off since Warmoth stuff is pretty darn to the letter in my experience.

 

[ICTGoober]

Fender used to shim their necks from the factory. For a time, they used these thick reddish brown stamped paper shims, Then they switched to sanding screen which was thicker and since it had an abrasive on it - it didn't allow the neck to move in the joint.

 

[marcello252]

Fender used to shim their necks from the factory. For a time, they used these thick reddish brown stamped paper shims, Then they switched to sanding screen which was thicker and since it had an abrasive on it - it didn't allow the neck to move in the joint.

all my Fender have it