I have two 2013 LP Traditional models with APH-1 sets in both. I have two issues; first I would like to have some more "personality" than what my APH-1's offer - I find them a bit too smooth and sometimes a little dull. Secondly, my LP's sound VERY different - despite being the same model and year. One is darker and has more mids, the other is just thinner and brighter overall. I was thinking of a Pearly Gates set for the darker of the two, but am unsure about the second (brighter) guitar. I worry about the PG bridge being too bright in an already bright guitar. Would a WLH set be a good way to add some girth to my brighter LP? Do you guys tune your pickup choices to match your guitars tonal character or am I overthinking things? I thought maybe the PG and WLH sets would balance the natural tones of each LP and add the character I was looking for. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated. For what it's worth, I play everything from blues/jazz to 80's rock/metal. Thanks!!
Frustrated with Les Paul Pickups....
- Thread starter Humbugger
- Start date
blueman335
Mojo's Minions
Re: Frustrated with Les Paul Pickups....
Common logic is to put bright PU's in warm guitars and vice versa. Otherwise you end up with a very bright, or very dark guitar.
To me, PGN's are warmer and darker than A2P's. Putting one in a warm LP will add to the smoothness you're trying to get away from. It would be a better fit in the brighter guitar.
Likewise, I wouldn't put a PGB in the bridge slot of a bright guitar. You're warmer one would be a better candidate. The bridge and neck are voiced differently. When I was looking for a set of used PG's, I saw a lot more PGB's for sale than PGN's. I finally got a set, but didn't care for either and sold them.
WLH's are on the warm side, especially the neck.
You may like a Jazz set in the warm guitar, and a PGN in the bright one.
Have you looked at other Duncan PU's?
Common logic is to put bright PU's in warm guitars and vice versa. Otherwise you end up with a very bright, or very dark guitar.
To me, PGN's are warmer and darker than A2P's. Putting one in a warm LP will add to the smoothness you're trying to get away from. It would be a better fit in the brighter guitar.
Likewise, I wouldn't put a PGB in the bridge slot of a bright guitar. You're warmer one would be a better candidate. The bridge and neck are voiced differently. When I was looking for a set of used PG's, I saw a lot more PGB's for sale than PGN's. I finally got a set, but didn't care for either and sold them.
WLH's are on the warm side, especially the neck.
You may like a Jazz set in the warm guitar, and a PGN in the bright one.
Have you looked at other Duncan PU's?
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beaubrummels
Well-known member
Re: Frustrated with Les Paul Pickups....
Welcome to the forum.
PGs would add some edge to a dark LP.
WLH would smooth any spikes of a bright LP.
I'm not sure what frequency 'girth' lives at, but I can't think of a pickup that would add it.
Welcome to the forum.
PGs would add some edge to a dark LP.
WLH would smooth any spikes of a bright LP.
I'm not sure what frequency 'girth' lives at, but I can't think of a pickup that would add it.
Re: Frustrated with Les Paul Pickups....
I have owned several Duncan's over the years, problem is I went through a Strat phase and didn't have any LP's or humbuckers until recently. I'm not sure I trust my tonal references/memories, which are 10 years old now. I do remember liking the PG neck, and thinking the Jazz neck I had was ok. I also have good memories of the 59's I had, but have heard some say the neck can be boomy and the bridge bright and thin. I have always wanted to try some Seth Lovers, but I was worried about them being microphonic with a lot of gain or volume. Honestly, the last LP I had that I really liked had a PG set in it, but that was 10 years ago.
I have owned several Duncan's over the years, problem is I went through a Strat phase and didn't have any LP's or humbuckers until recently. I'm not sure I trust my tonal references/memories, which are 10 years old now. I do remember liking the PG neck, and thinking the Jazz neck I had was ok. I also have good memories of the 59's I had, but have heard some say the neck can be boomy and the bridge bright and thin. I have always wanted to try some Seth Lovers, but I was worried about them being microphonic with a lot of gain or volume. Honestly, the last LP I had that I really liked had a PG set in it, but that was 10 years ago.
hamerfan
Well-known member
Re: Frustrated with Les Paul Pickups....
Let my say this: i have 5 gibson Les Paul and each one is different. Some 20 years ago with my first LP i thought i need new pickups. After year of efforts (about 50 pickups) i recognized that the basis (wood, pots and hardware) is the problem. I did a lot of swaps with hardware and it made a major difference, more so than the pickups. Long story short: a warm LP needs a steel bridge to get cut thru, alu tailpiece to get some shimmering highs and if neck is muddy steel studs fore the tailpiece. A thin LP needs more brass hardware, maybe the bridge and the tailpiece and in extremes finally the studs. The 'Flame Maple Mod' is recommended for all LPs to get more sustain and clarity. Pots to taste, but always highest reading in the neck pickup volume.
If you want to look deeper into that, look at mylespaul Forum or lespaulforum. For more insights you are welcome to pm me.
Let my say this: i have 5 gibson Les Paul and each one is different. Some 20 years ago with my first LP i thought i need new pickups. After year of efforts (about 50 pickups) i recognized that the basis (wood, pots and hardware) is the problem. I did a lot of swaps with hardware and it made a major difference, more so than the pickups. Long story short: a warm LP needs a steel bridge to get cut thru, alu tailpiece to get some shimmering highs and if neck is muddy steel studs fore the tailpiece. A thin LP needs more brass hardware, maybe the bridge and the tailpiece and in extremes finally the studs. The 'Flame Maple Mod' is recommended for all LPs to get more sustain and clarity. Pots to taste, but always highest reading in the neck pickup volume.
If you want to look deeper into that, look at mylespaul Forum or lespaulforum. For more insights you are welcome to pm me.
JeffB
Let it B
Re: Frustrated with Les Paul Pickups....
Good advice above.
Les Pauls are finnicky beatches. Ive had way too many, and have got one right now that has been rewired twice and through 4 sets of pickups and I cannot get it where I want. Bridge/TP is my last resort. I also have one that didnt require much at all to get where I wanted tonally.it just doesnt have the playability of the problem child, unfortunately.
Good advice above.
Les Pauls are finnicky beatches. Ive had way too many, and have got one right now that has been rewired twice and through 4 sets of pickups and I cannot get it where I want. Bridge/TP is my last resort. I also have one that didnt require much at all to get where I wanted tonally.it just doesnt have the playability of the problem child, unfortunately.
blueman335
Mojo's Minions
Re: Frustrated with Les Paul Pickups....
Very true. Those fat bodies of two different woods, the short rigid necks with a single cutaway: they give LP's a different sound. Every PU is not going to sound good in them. For me, PAF's have been the easiest to get good tones from.
Very true. Those fat bodies of two different woods, the short rigid necks with a single cutaway: they give LP's a different sound. Every PU is not going to sound good in them. For me, PAF's have been the easiest to get good tones from.
Re: Frustrated with Les Paul Pickups....
Oh it would aid a LOT if Gibson would finally use maple in stead of sycamore, real lightweight honduras mahogany in stead of Fillipinian mahogany that's so heavy that needs to be chambered out. I've tried so many excellent LP clones made out of those woods: never a dud. With gibsons? not so much.
Oh it would aid a LOT if Gibson would finally use maple in stead of sycamore, real lightweight honduras mahogany in stead of Fillipinian mahogany that's so heavy that needs to be chambered out. I've tried so many excellent LP clones made out of those woods: never a dud. With gibsons? not so much.
Re: Frustrated with Les Paul Pickups....
Thanks everyone for the suggestions. I spent my evening pouring through info on this forum, and I must say it's an impressive resource. I have been playing for 20 years and this morning I tried something I never have before - I actually adjusted my pole pieces on my "dark" LP. It really made a difference, I was surprised. I may stick with the APH sets and work with some more adjustments. One thing I do like about the APH is that it cuts through very well for me in a band setting. That's why I ditched the 57 Classics in the first place, no definition when playing live (especially the neck). Yes I kind of wanted more "personality" or character, but I am starting to realize the APH sets are very solid - I just need to learn how to make minor adjustments and tweaks. After 20 years of just playing I guess it's time to learn some new skills and actually fine tune my guitars. Thanks again to everyone who responded to my posts.
Thanks everyone for the suggestions. I spent my evening pouring through info on this forum, and I must say it's an impressive resource. I have been playing for 20 years and this morning I tried something I never have before - I actually adjusted my pole pieces on my "dark" LP. It really made a difference, I was surprised. I may stick with the APH sets and work with some more adjustments. One thing I do like about the APH is that it cuts through very well for me in a band setting. That's why I ditched the 57 Classics in the first place, no definition when playing live (especially the neck). Yes I kind of wanted more "personality" or character, but I am starting to realize the APH sets are very solid - I just need to learn how to make minor adjustments and tweaks. After 20 years of just playing I guess it's time to learn some new skills and actually fine tune my guitars. Thanks again to everyone who responded to my posts.
blueman335
Mojo's Minions
Re: Frustrated with Les Paul Pickups....
A2P's are excellent PU's. I love them in LP's. '57's on the other hand are lackluster, overpriced, and overused by Gibson. The view of some of us is that Seymour's passion and life revolve around PU's, whereas Gibson winds PU's so they have something to put in their guitars.
There's a ton of info here and a lot of really knowledgeable people. Plus there's the encouragement of experimenting. Great place to be a regular.
A2P's are excellent PU's. I love them in LP's. '57's on the other hand are lackluster, overpriced, and overused by Gibson. The view of some of us is that Seymour's passion and life revolve around PU's, whereas Gibson winds PU's so they have something to put in their guitars.
There's a ton of info here and a lot of really knowledgeable people. Plus there's the encouragement of experimenting. Great place to be a regular.
audiocheck
New member
Re: Frustrated with Les Paul Pickups....
Bright LP: pair of 59s
Dark LP: pair of PGs
You will have 2 LP's that ooze character! If you like iconic LP tone, these are safe bets.
Bright LP: pair of 59s
Dark LP: pair of PGs
You will have 2 LP's that ooze character! If you like iconic LP tone, these are safe bets.
Re: Frustrated with Les Paul Pickups....
i'd do it the other way around! the 59's are bright. stick 'm in a dark guitar to brighten that guitar up (actually, stick a sentient in the neck: great PAF voicing!). A PG is sweeter, darker: that will fatten up a brighter guitar.
i'd do it the other way around! the 59's are bright. stick 'm in a dark guitar to brighten that guitar up (actually, stick a sentient in the neck: great PAF voicing!). A PG is sweeter, darker: that will fatten up a brighter guitar.
beaubrummels
Well-known member
Re: Frustrated with Les Paul Pickups....
That's interesting. I've had the opposite experience - like Audiocheck. My 59s are a little soft on the top end and mid strong, my Pearlys are bright and deep and even in the mids.
That's interesting. I've had the opposite experience - like Audiocheck. My 59s are a little soft on the top end and mid strong, my Pearlys are bright and deep and even in the mids.
RayBarbeeMusic
New member
Re: Frustrated with Les Paul Pickups....
Measure the pots. You'll be surprised.
Measure the pots. You'll be surprised.
Chickenwings
Alnico 6/8
Re: Frustrated with Les Paul Pickups....
keep the aph set in the darker axe or possibly try a PG set if you want something with tons of character and really want to spend some money on the experiment. It wont necessarily be an improvement, but it will definitely sound cool. Might just fit what you are after exactly. Still, the aph's are a proven winner in many contexts. Both sets are ace. Still, id probably just put on some fresh strings every time I felt that the APH's feel too dark.
Put some WLH's in the brighter one. It will give it some girth and heft.
500k pots all round.
keep the aph set in the darker axe or possibly try a PG set if you want something with tons of character and really want to spend some money on the experiment. It wont necessarily be an improvement, but it will definitely sound cool. Might just fit what you are after exactly. Still, the aph's are a proven winner in many contexts. Both sets are ace. Still, id probably just put on some fresh strings every time I felt that the APH's feel too dark.
Put some WLH's in the brighter one. It will give it some girth and heft.
500k pots all round.
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Re: Frustrated with Les Paul Pickups....
If you like the APH-1s, but want a little more "life" to them, consider the Slash set APH-2, The bridge model is a little more aggressive like a Pearly, but with a little more bass and less sizzle, to my ears at least. The neck pickup is smooth, but still has a good bite to it, and surprisingly not too dark for an 8.3k neck pickup with an alnico 2 mag. I think a lot of people are put off by the slash name on them, but they are a great, versatile rock pickup that can cover a lot of ground. Ive played them in cheap Epiphone LPs and Nice Gibson Standards and they sound good every time.
If you like the APH-1s, but want a little more "life" to them, consider the Slash set APH-2, The bridge model is a little more aggressive like a Pearly, but with a little more bass and less sizzle, to my ears at least. The neck pickup is smooth, but still has a good bite to it, and surprisingly not too dark for an 8.3k neck pickup with an alnico 2 mag. I think a lot of people are put off by the slash name on them, but they are a great, versatile rock pickup that can cover a lot of ground. Ive played them in cheap Epiphone LPs and Nice Gibson Standards and they sound good every time.
blueman335
Mojo's Minions
Re: Frustrated with Les Paul Pickups....
Compared to A2P's? No, they're wound hotter, and they're warmer. I'd put the Slash set in the brighter LP.
Compared to A2P's? No, they're wound hotter, and they're warmer. I'd put the Slash set in the brighter LP.
RayBarbeeMusic
New member
Re: Frustrated with Les Paul Pickups....
I don't agree with the whole '50s wiring thing. That's a bad way to address the problem of tone cap size, the better way is with a different sized tone cap.
A really good way to help any les paul is get rid of the wiring which goes from the pickups to the switch and back to the jack, which will be 4 conductor or braided, either way having very high stray capacitance. Replace it with some better wire like George L or Mogami. I used to use the George L but its a ***** to work with, the Mogami is easier and opens up the sound nicely.
I don't agree with the whole '50s wiring thing. That's a bad way to address the problem of tone cap size, the better way is with a different sized tone cap.
A really good way to help any les paul is get rid of the wiring which goes from the pickups to the switch and back to the jack, which will be 4 conductor or braided, either way having very high stray capacitance. Replace it with some better wire like George L or Mogami. I used to use the George L but its a ***** to work with, the Mogami is easier and opens up the sound nicely.
