Frustrated with Les Paul Pickups....

[Shooter.556]

Re: Frustrated with Les Paul Pickups....

I don't agree with the whole '50s wiring thing. That's a bad way to address the problem of tone cap size, the better way is with a different sized tone cap.

A really good way to help any les paul is get rid of the wiring which goes from the pickups to the switch and back to the jack, which will be 4 conductor or braided, either way having very high stray capacitance. Replace it with some better wire like George L or Mogami. I used to use the George L but its a ***** to work with, the Mogami is easier and opens up the sound nicely.

Expand on this if you don't mind..
Why is 50s wiring a bad thing? I have never had any issues with it and I find that it wakes up a Les Paul.
I tend to go with .022 in the bridge and .015 in the neck. I like 600v Orange Drops they have more bite and I have used some PIOs NOS Russian silvers and greens and they are smoother than the Orange Drops to my ears. I use 500k pots and I prefer Bourns.
What is your proposal that improves 50s wiring and what caps and values do you suggest?
I am a big proponent of 50s wiring in Les Pauls and SGs so I just curious as to why you don't like it..

 

[Aceman]

Re: Frustrated with Les Paul Pickups....

A2P's are excellent PU's. I love them in LP's.

A2P's will sound like crap in a dark muddy Les Paul. You love A2P's whether they are in a Les Paul, And Epi Les Paul, a semi hollow, or a 2x4, or squirrel hole in an oak tree. Do you even own a real Les Paul?

 

[RayBarbeeMusic]

Re: Frustrated with Les Paul Pickups....

50's wiring puts your tone cap on the output of the pot. As the volume goes down, your pickup is separated by the resistance between the hot leg and the wiper. The main reason I hear people advocate 50's wiring is that it "leaves in more highs as you turn down". That's also the main reason cited for cork sniffer big dollar caps.

When you have the volume pot all the way up, the wiper and hot are shorted, there is no difference in 50s and modern wiring. If you want to retain highs as a volume pot is rolled back, put a 150k resistor in parallel with a .001uf cap across the hot and middle leg. If you want more highs as the tone is rolled down, use a smaller cap. Cap value makes a HUGE difference in the sound, cap CONSTRUCTION does not, at least not in a guitar circuit with microamps and millivolts.

There is nothing sacred about .022uf. I find it un-usable. Experiment with different value caps and find what you like. On humbuckers I like .0015uf or .0022uf on the neck, this gives a nice fat hollow body jazz sound when rolled back; on a PAF bridge I like .001uf (this is essentially a fat control) and on hotter humbuckers. 750pf, which is essentially a snot reduction control. Get some cheap $.50 film caps of various values, clip them in, find what you like.

With a 500k pot, a tone cap is, for audible purposes, out of the circuit. Technically no, in practice, yes. With 250k, since a tone pot is a rheostat, its a 500k audio tone pot at about 7 or 8, so insofar as you can hear the difference with your 500k pot at full vs. 7 or 8, you can hear it.

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: Frustrated with Les Paul Pickups....

50's wiring puts your tone cap on the output of the pot. As the volume goes down, your pickup is separated by the resistance between the hot leg and the wiper. The main reason I hear people advocate 50's wiring is that it "leaves in more highs as you turn down". That's also the main reason cited for cork sniffer big dollar caps.

When you have the volume pot all the way up, the wiper and hot are shorted, there is no difference in 50s and modern wiring. If you want to retain highs as a volume pot is rolled back, put a 150k resistor in parallel with a .001uf cap across the hot and middle leg. If you want more highs as the tone is rolled down, use a smaller cap. Cap value makes a HUGE difference in the sound, cap CONSTRUCTION does not, at least not in a guitar circuit with microamps and millivolts.

There is nothing sacred about .022uf. I find it un-usable. Experiment with different value caps and find what you like. On humbuckers I like .0015uf or .0022uf on the neck, this gives a nice fat hollow body jazz sound when rolled back; on a PAF bridge I like .001uf (this is essentially a fat control) and on hotter humbuckers. 750pf, which is essentially a snot reduction control. Get some cheap $.50 film caps of various values, clip them in, find what you like.

With a 500k pot, a tone cap is, for audible purposes, out of the circuit. Technically no, in practice, yes. With 250k, since a tone pot is a rheostat, its a 500k audio tone pot at about 7 or 8, so insofar as you can hear the difference with your 500k pot at full vs. 7 or 8, you can hear it.

I have found one exception to the rule that only the cap value matters - cheap ceramic caps leak and do not consistently discharge and this seems to result in some odd lower output and muffled/muddier frequencies compared to just about any other type of cap construction. YMMV

 

[RayBarbeeMusic]

Re: Frustrated with Les Paul Pickups....

If the cap is defective, then you have an issue no matter what it's made of. If they leaked regularly they wouldn't be all over tube amps where the voltages and currents are many orders of magnitude greater.

Personally, I use the small chicklet sized film caps. Never had an issue with them.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Frustrated with Les Paul Pickups....

A2P's will sound like crap in a dark muddy Les Paul. You love A2P's whether they are in a Les Paul, And Epi Les Paul, a semi hollow, or a 2x4, or squirrel hole in an oak tree.

Kind of like you and PG's which you're constantly pushing on people, huh?

 

[Demanic]

Re: Frustrated with Les Paul Pickups....

Hmm, A2Ps but with an A4 in the neck and a UOA5 in the bridge. If you are into magnet swapping that is.

 

[Artie]

Re: Frustrated with Les Paul Pickups....

The view of some of us is that Seymour's passion and life revolve around PU's, whereas Gibson winds PU's so they have something to put in their guitars.

Great quote.

I've always been a "Fender" kinda guy, but I love my APH's and my PG's. But they, with all my other guitars, seem to sit in the corner and collect dust. The only axe I pick up any more, is my LP Custom with the PATB-1 set. Killer, killer pickups.

My 2-cents worth.

Artie

 

[Mincer]

Re: Frustrated with Les Paul Pickups....

Compared to A2P's? No, they're wound hotter, and they're warmer. I'd put the Slash set in the brighter LP.

Yeah? I always heard them as a little brighter and hotter. Weird.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Frustrated with Les Paul Pickups....

Yeah? I always heard them as a little brighter and hotter. Weird.

Hotter with the same wind means less treble and more mids. When the wind is different (like a PGN and PGB) then the hotter one may or may not be warmer.

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: Frustrated with Les Paul Pickups....

If the cap is defective, then you have an issue no matter what it's made of. If they leaked regularly they wouldn't be all over tube amps where the voltages and currents are many orders of magnitude greater.

Personally, I use the small chicklet sized film caps. Never had an issue with them.

Depends whether they are in the audio signal path or performing some other function in the circuit. They still might function within tolerance for their purpose in the circuit in an amp. If the voltages are orders of magnitude greater, then those aren't the same caps used in passive guitar tone circuits. I can't really speak to the deep details of amp circuits, but in my experience the cheap ceramics in a passive guitar circuit where they have a direct impact on the audio just do not seem to work well.

 

[RayBarbeeMusic]

Re: Frustrated with Les Paul Pickups....

I CAN speak to it, given I work on amps and guitars as part of my living. A leaking cap performs no function except to get a customer to bring an amp to me for repair.

Also, many guitarists/guitars use caps that are perfectly capable of handling voltages in one, or more, or all of an amp circuit. The caps we use in guitars are MASSIVE overkill for voltage/current specs. A lot of people use orange drops in their guitars because they are relatively inexpensive poly foil caps. You'll also find them in a whole lot of amps. I use the same caps I use in guitars in amps where the voltages are tolerable. And ceramics in general have a very high voltage rating.

So nyah.

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: Frustrated with Les Paul Pickups....

I CAN speak to it, given I work on amps and guitars as part of my living. A leaking cap performs no function except to get a customer to bring an amp to me for repair.

Also, many guitarists/guitars use caps that are perfectly capable of handling voltages in one, or more, or all of an amp circuit. The caps we use in guitars are MASSIVE overkill for voltage/current specs. A lot of people use orange drops in their guitars because they are relatively inexpensive poly foil caps. You'll also find them in a whole lot of amps. I use the same caps I use in guitars in amps where the voltages are tolerable. And ceramics in general have a very high voltage rating.

So nyah.

Right on. Then I'll sell you all my ceramics.

 

[Humbugger]

Re: Frustrated with Les Paul Pickups....

I gave it some more thought and ordered a set of PG's. If I don't like them I can always put the A2P set back in. After doing more thinking I realized that PG's are the only pickup I have used in multiple LP's with no issues or regrets. I have used the 59, JB, Custom Custom, Custom 5, Screamin Demon, Jazz, PG, and A2P - all in Les Pauls. I have also used the Dimarzio Air Classic set and the 36th Paf set. Out of all the pickups listed I have the best memories with the PG's and the Jazz/Screamin Demon combo. One thing is sure, this hobby has changed for me. I used to buy amps, pedals, and guitars. Now I buy pickups. Go figure.

 

[Aceman]

Re: Frustrated with Les Paul Pickups....

Kind of like you and PG's which you're constantly pushing on people, huh?

No - I also suggest Customs, Custom Customs, 59's, A2P's, JB's and all kinds of stuff. When a pickup is right, that's what I suggest. Occasional others.

And I own real Les PAuls, Dean Cadillacs and have a had Epiphone Les Pauls as well. I also play out from time time to time and have been in a Pop band, a Classic Rock band, and a Metal band….