Full-sized humbucker closest in tone to Hot Rails
- Thread starter EddieVN
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Clint 55
OH THE DOUBLE THICK GLAZE!
Re: Full-sized humbucker closest in tone to Hot Rails
It's true. I'd say the form factor causes a difference in sound of over half. The rest you could make up would be general medium or high output and a neutral voicing say maybe something from the Custom family. It kind of sounds dry to me like the Black Winter.
It's true. I'd say the form factor causes a difference in sound of over half. The rest you could make up would be general medium or high output and a neutral voicing say maybe something from the Custom family. It kind of sounds dry to me like the Black Winter.
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frankfalbo
In Fluence Y'all
Re: Full-sized humbucker closest in tone to Hot Rails
Any full sized HB will be a compromise because the string window is much larger. Dimebucker perhaps.
Any full sized HB will be a compromise because the string window is much larger. Dimebucker perhaps.
Empty Pockets
BadHairDayologist
Re: Full-sized humbucker closest in tone to Hot Rails
The closest thing I've played that sounded like a Hot Rails in a full-sized humbucker is the Custom Shop El Diablo. Massive output and huge mids because the rails are alnico 2 bar magnets. I kind of miss mine.
The closest thing I've played that sounded like a Hot Rails in a full-sized humbucker is the Custom Shop El Diablo. Massive output and huge mids because the rails are alnico 2 bar magnets. I kind of miss mine.
freefrog
Well-known member
Re: Full-sized humbucker closest in tone to Hot Rails
+1... and the narrow spacing of the HR changes the coupling of its coils in favor of a much higher inductance: a Hot Rails B reads almost 12H according to my measurements. Standard sized HB's with such a high inductance are pretty rare. Even an Invader reads only 8.4H...
12H gives to the Hot Rails a resonant frequency a bit above 2.2k througha standard cable - IOW, a high mids focused voicing. For comparison, the Invader resonates at least 500hz higher.
If I wanted a Hot Rails sound from a guitar fitted with HB's, I'd do what I've done in my own guitar with Hot Rails: I'd mount the real one in an adapter: https://www.guitarfetish.com/Humbuc...ratreg-pickup-ANGLED-THREE-COLORS_p_4349.html
For anyone who'd find it ugly, there's magnetically transparent plastic covers like those of EMG's and a rails pickup can be hidden in it (after all, cheap Japanese guitars from the past often hosted a single coil under a humbucker cover for economical reasons).
Another trick would be to lower artificially the resonant peak of a standard sized HB by putting it in parallel with a low value capacitor. That + a proper resistance for volume & tone pots would kinda mimic the resonance of a HR, albeit the HB would remain unable to reproduce the comb filtering of harmonics due to narrow spaced coils.
FWIW (= my 2 cents of geek; and sorry for the late answer: I'm more than busy).
Good luck in your tone quest, EddieVN!
+1... and the narrow spacing of the HR changes the coupling of its coils in favor of a much higher inductance: a Hot Rails B reads almost 12H according to my measurements. Standard sized HB's with such a high inductance are pretty rare. Even an Invader reads only 8.4H...
12H gives to the Hot Rails a resonant frequency a bit above 2.2k througha standard cable - IOW, a high mids focused voicing. For comparison, the Invader resonates at least 500hz higher.
If I wanted a Hot Rails sound from a guitar fitted with HB's, I'd do what I've done in my own guitar with Hot Rails: I'd mount the real one in an adapter: https://www.guitarfetish.com/Humbuc...ratreg-pickup-ANGLED-THREE-COLORS_p_4349.html
For anyone who'd find it ugly, there's magnetically transparent plastic covers like those of EMG's and a rails pickup can be hidden in it (after all, cheap Japanese guitars from the past often hosted a single coil under a humbucker cover for economical reasons).
Another trick would be to lower artificially the resonant peak of a standard sized HB by putting it in parallel with a low value capacitor. That + a proper resistance for volume & tone pots would kinda mimic the resonance of a HR, albeit the HB would remain unable to reproduce the comb filtering of harmonics due to narrow spaced coils.
FWIW (= my 2 cents of geek; and sorry for the late answer: I'm more than busy).
Good luck in your tone quest, EddieVN!
Re: Full-sized humbucker closest in tone to Hot Rails
Thanks a lot guys, some great suggestions there. Hadn't considered the Regular Custom or El Diablo and shall definitely be checking those out. Also the humbucker-->single coil mounting hadn't occurred to me either. Much food for thought.
Thanks a lot guys, some great suggestions there. Hadn't considered the Regular Custom or El Diablo and shall definitely be checking those out. Also the humbucker-->single coil mounting hadn't occurred to me either. Much food for thought.
Artie
Peaveyologist
Re: Full-sized humbucker closest in tone to Hot Rails
It's funny how different people hear the same pup differently, (obviously, with different guitar/strings/amp), but I've got 3 HR's in a Squier Strat, and while it doesn't have the jangly chime of single coils, to my ears, it's far from dark, or lacking clarity. Different strokes, I guess.
It's funny how different people hear the same pup differently, (obviously, with different guitar/strings/amp), but I've got 3 HR's in a Squier Strat, and while it doesn't have the jangly chime of single coils, to my ears, it's far from dark, or lacking clarity. Different strokes, I guess.
Re: Full-sized humbucker closest in tone to Hot Rails
The Invader wouldn't work if you think the Hot Rails is bright.
The Invader wouldn't work if you think the Hot Rails is bright.
Re: Full-sized humbucker closest in tone to Hot Rails
True. Which I do not (but the OP does).
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
True. Which I do not (but the OP does).
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Re: Full-sized humbucker closest in tone to Hot Rails
But the Dimebucker is bright. The Hot Rails... not so much.
freefrog
Well-known member
Re: Full-sized humbucker closest in tone to Hot Rails
Albeit the SH13 has a higher Q factor and almost half the inductance of the HR, a Dimebucker could sound close to the HR IMHO, once paired with a low value cap and some pot(s) of a proper resistance. The only missing parm would be the comb filtering due to the narrow coils spacing of Hot Rails, that any regular sized HB would fail to reproduce anyway.
What I mean can be seen thx to this applet:
http://www.till.com/articles/PickupResponseDemo/
In the "width" box, write 0.73 or 1.78 then check the comb filtering due to these respective outer dimensions of adjacent coils.
BTW, this difference of comb filtering explains why Hot Rails are felt as dark or bright by different people, IMHO.
EDIT - incidentally, I had previously a SH13 in the guitar where I've mounted a Hot-Rails in a humbucker sized single coil frame. Below is the spectrum of stacked single notes played from unfretted low E to 22th fret / high E, with these two pickups in bridge position (the HR being slanted):
Knowing that fundamental notes stop a bit above 1khz, I can clearly see...
1)how its halved inductance and lower Q factor give the SH13 a lot more harmonics (around a more focused and higher pitched resonant peak);
2) how the spacing of the coils shapes these harmonics differently with the two PU's.
FWIW (my 2 cents).
Albeit the SH13 has a higher Q factor and almost half the inductance of the HR, a Dimebucker could sound close to the HR IMHO, once paired with a low value cap and some pot(s) of a proper resistance. The only missing parm would be the comb filtering due to the narrow coils spacing of Hot Rails, that any regular sized HB would fail to reproduce anyway.
What I mean can be seen thx to this applet:
http://www.till.com/articles/PickupResponseDemo/
In the "width" box, write 0.73 or 1.78 then check the comb filtering due to these respective outer dimensions of adjacent coils.
BTW, this difference of comb filtering explains why Hot Rails are felt as dark or bright by different people, IMHO.
EDIT - incidentally, I had previously a SH13 in the guitar where I've mounted a Hot-Rails in a humbucker sized single coil frame. Below is the spectrum of stacked single notes played from unfretted low E to 22th fret / high E, with these two pickups in bridge position (the HR being slanted):
Knowing that fundamental notes stop a bit above 1khz, I can clearly see...
1)how its halved inductance and lower Q factor give the SH13 a lot more harmonics (around a more focused and higher pitched resonant peak);
2) how the spacing of the coils shapes these harmonics differently with the two PU's.
FWIW (my 2 cents).
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freefrog
Well-known member
Re: Full-sized humbucker closest in tone to Hot Rails
And here is the same thing than above with an Invader (not played in the same guitar, though: the Axe with SH13 then HR is my Variax 500 that I've routed for humbuckers. The one with the Invader was a Tom Delonge Strat)...
The invader is much darker than the SH13 but the different comb filtering due to its wider coils spacing can still be seen above 2khz.
The peaks and dips in the fundamental notes are due to the acoustic resonance of each guitars (the Tom Delonge exhibiting a poor balance of mids... for random physical reasons, this thing was not a very good guitar).
And here is the same thing than above with an Invader (not played in the same guitar, though: the Axe with SH13 then HR is my Variax 500 that I've routed for humbuckers. The one with the Invader was a Tom Delonge Strat)...
The invader is much darker than the SH13 but the different comb filtering due to its wider coils spacing can still be seen above 2khz.
The peaks and dips in the fundamental notes are due to the acoustic resonance of each guitars (the Tom Delonge exhibiting a poor balance of mids... for random physical reasons, this thing was not a very good guitar).
littlebadboy
New member
Re: Full-sized humbucker closest in tone to Hot Rails
For some reason, the Parallel Axis comes to my mind.
I love the Hot Rails sound too! Been wanting to have a guitar build with an SS config but with rails on both. I actually liked how they chug.
For some reason, the Parallel Axis comes to my mind.
I love the Hot Rails sound too! Been wanting to have a guitar build with an SS config but with rails on both. I actually liked how they chug.
Aceman
I am your doctor of love!
Re: Full-sized humbucker closest in tone to Hot Rails
I love the Hot Rails. Great double blade. But I really never came across a full size HB that I went "That's what the Hot Rail is." Love the Hot Rails for what it is, a Hot Rails.
Full disclosure: Currently using a Fast Track 2 in a cheap Kramer. Love the Fast Track, Fast Track 2, and Chopper from DMZ.
OMG: Frogger!!!!!!!! Those are BADASS!!!!!!!!!! You are my new pickup science super-hero!!!!!!! I beseech you, plead, and beg that you do a thread on that. Tell us your methodology, explain the multiple single note stacking (for averages I assume), what you played, how you played, and just freaking everything....software, guitar strings, etc!!!!!!
I love the Hot Rails. Great double blade. But I really never came across a full size HB that I went "That's what the Hot Rail is." Love the Hot Rails for what it is, a Hot Rails.
Full disclosure: Currently using a Fast Track 2 in a cheap Kramer. Love the Fast Track, Fast Track 2, and Chopper from DMZ.
OMG: Frogger!!!!!!!! Those are BADASS!!!!!!!!!! You are my new pickup science super-hero!!!!!!! I beseech you, plead, and beg that you do a thread on that. Tell us your methodology, explain the multiple single note stacking (for averages I assume), what you played, how you played, and just freaking everything....software, guitar strings, etc!!!!!!
Jacew
New member
Re: Full-sized humbucker closest in tone to Hot Rails
You could fit real single or cool rails there too, and get the hole filled
You could fit real single or cool rails there too, and get the hole filled
freefrog
Well-known member
Re: Full-sized humbucker closest in tone to Hot Rails
I don't want to be a super-hero: they put under-wear upon their pants! ;-)
I don't want to be a super-hero: they put under-wear upon their pants! ;-)
