Gave my Mesa Rectifier 2x12s some more thump.

[Gone_Shootin]

I've stated in the past that Mesa Rectifier 2x12s sound bigger than they are, and I still believe that they do. For a 2x12, they sound pretty good. But I wanted to add a little more thump to a couple of mine...

So I did some speaker swapping. Of course, I have plenty of V30s on hand (I have 4 Mesa cabs), along with a pair each of Swamp Thangs, Legend V12s, Soldano Purples, Texas Heats, and a quad of G12T-75s. I didn't try the 75s because they're in my Marshall 1960 cabs at my drummer's house mixed with some V30s. Which leads me to what prompted me to try this experiment. Those Marshall cabs as they are are ice picky and I'm having a hard time dialing it out. I want to put a pair of Reeves Vintage Purples (really good Fane/Hi-Watt Purpleback clones) in each of the Marshall 1960 cabs to go with the V30s (I discovered this blend when messing around with IRs in my Helix, I can't wait to hear it for real). But I had a string of bad luck and am getting back on my feet, so I have to use what I have on hand for now.

What did I settle on? A Swamp Thang and a V30 in each 2x12. I was set on using the Swamp Thangs from the onset, so that's the speaker type that stayed put. The V30s were the first I tried, and I really liked it, so I left one cab that way and tried the others in the other cab. They were all more honky than the V30, in their own way, and just didn't sound as good. The the Swamp Thang really smoothed out the harsh tendencies that V30s can have. That Celestion "chime" that can turn into ice picks if you get to happy with the treble and presence was really smoothed out, and there still is a bit if a mud hump, but it's not harsh at all, and the low end grunt from the Swamp Thang adds that little extra something. Great speaker combo for a 2x12. The odd thing is, I'm not fond of Swamp Thangs in 4x12s, they sound farty in the low mids to my ears.

 

[Gtrjunior]

Gave my Mesa Rectifier 2x12s some more thump.

I’m kinda surprised that you find the 12T-75’s ice picky.
I find that they have a great low end thump. I don’t think I’d call them scooped....maybe somewhat scooped but it’s not the first word I’d choose.
I have it paired with a Splawn Small Block in two 2x12 cabs. I think they sound spectacular together.
But I’m glad you found a pairing that works for you!!

 

[Gone_Shootin]

Re: Gave my Mesa Rectifier 2x12s some more thump.

I’m kinda surprised that you find the 12T-75’s ice picky.
I find that they have a great low end thump. I don’t think I’d call them scooped....maybe somewhat scooped but it’s not the first word I’d choose.
I have it paired with a Splawn Small Block in two 2x12 cabs. I think they sound spectacular together.
But I’m glad you found a pairing that works for you!!

G12T-75s are kind of an odd duck for me. I really like them in a Marshall 1960 with a 5150 running through them. Just dial back the highs and turn up the mids and it sounds great. I even kinda liked them with the Splawn Pro Mod I recently sold. But with anything else I've tried with them? Ice pick city. *shrug* Oh well, it is what it is.

And yeah, I agree that the mids are still there with the G12T-75, but it's more hollow sounding, almost like it's out of phase with it's self. But it definitely has the treble. Celestion specifically developed it as a treble speaker, hence the T in the nomenclature.

 

[JMP/HBE]

Re: Gave my Mesa Rectifier 2x12s some more thump.



I run two 4x12's of 1978 Blackbacks. Best cabs ive ever owned.

Sound great with my MESA.

 

[Gtrjunior]

Re: Gave my Mesa Rectifier 2x12s some more thump.

G12T-75s are kind of an odd duck for me. I really like them in a Marshall 1960 with a 5150 running through them. Just dial back the highs and turn up the mids and it sounds great. I even kinda liked them with the Splawn Pro Mod I recently sold. But with anything else I've tried with them? Ice pick city. *shrug* Oh well, it is what it is.

And yeah, I agree that the mids are still there with the G12T-75, but it's more hollow sounding, almost like it's out of phase with it's self. But it definitely has the treble. Celestion specifically developed it as a treble speaker, hence the T in the nomenclature.

Now hat you mention it, I’ve only used them with my Marshall (2204), a Blackstar and my Quickrod. Even though the Quickrod is probably the brightest of the 3, it still isn’t screaming high end at me. That’s probably why I’ve liked that speaker so much...it’s worked very well with what I’ve thrown at them. Maybe with a different amp they wouldn’t be so forgiving.

 

[Gone_Shootin]

Re: Gave my Mesa Rectifier 2x12s some more thump.

I run two 4x12's of 1978 Blackbacks. Best cabs ive ever owned.

Sound great with my MESA.

Well, if I could find Blackbacks around for a halfway fair price, I'd have some. But the only time I've seen any for sale around here, the owner wanted a small fortune. But yeah, I do lust for Blackbacks.

 

[dave74]

Re: Gave my Mesa Rectifier 2x12s some more thump.

I've always wanted to try the v30/swampy mix but never have.
v30/k100 is another great blend.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Re: Gave my Mesa Rectifier 2x12s some more thump.

I personally don't find T-75's are THAT ice-picky themselves. Sizzly, yes. Fizzy, maybe with some amps. Ice-picky, I dunno.

The real reasons I think Marshall cabs are so bright are two: First, they have 16 ohm speakers in them. 16 ohm versions of the speaker (at least in the Celestion realm) are brighter than 8 ohms. That is accentuated by the fact that Mesa cabs are 8 ohms, and that's one of the reason they're warmer. Second, they're constructed in such a way and of such materials that makes them bright and gritty and not as fat and focused. The front baffle is not sealed around the edges like a Mesa. I'm sure the plywood they use is also different than Mesa. Different thickness, not as stiff, I'm not sure, but it's different. The grill cloth they use in their not-so-vintage cabs also lets more highs through than what they used to use way back when.

Either way, I bet the Swamp Thang/V30 combo is killer.

 

[Demanic]

Re: Gave my Mesa Rectifier 2x12s some more thump.

So that's the difference between 8ohm and 16ohm speakers and cabs. That explains why I prefer 16ohm.

Sent from my Alcatel_5044C using Tapatalk

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Re: Gave my Mesa Rectifier 2x12s some more thump.

So that's the difference between 8ohm and 16ohm speakers and cabs. That explains why I prefer 16ohm.

Sent from my Alcatel_5044C using Tapatalk

I prefer 16 ohms too, but that's just because that's what I'm used to in cabs.

 

[Adieu]

Re: Gave my Mesa Rectifier 2x12s some more thump.

Try a Black Shadow MC-90

Those things are awesome, and play nice with V30s

K85/K100 and 65's would work great

 

[Gone_Shootin]

Re: Gave my Mesa Rectifier 2x12s some more thump.

I personally don't find T-75's are THAT ice-picky themselves. Sizzly, yes. Fizzy, maybe with some amps. Ice-picky, I dunno.

The real reasons I think Marshall cabs are so bright are two: First, they have 16 ohm speakers in them. 16 ohm versions of the speaker (at least in the Celestion realm) are brighter than 8 ohms. That is accentuated by the fact that Mesa cabs are 8 ohms, and that's one of the reason they're warmer. Second, they're constructed in such a way and of such materials that makes them bright and gritty and not as fat and focused. The front baffle is not sealed around the edges like a Mesa. I'm sure the plywood they use is also different than Mesa. Different thickness, not as stiff, I'm not sure, but it's different. The grill cloth they use in their not-so-vintage cabs also lets more highs through than what they used to use way back when.

Either way, I bet the Swamp Thang/V30 combo is killer.

Ah, but Mesa 2x12s have 16 ohm speakers. Also, you have a point about cab construction. Mesa uses, or at least used to use, 3/4" Baltic Birch, whereas Marshall uses 5/8" or 1/2" (depending on who you're talking to) Baltic Birch. But the grille cloths are a mixed bag. Mesa tends to use a heavy jute that has been treated (I've read that they no longer do that), but you can order their cabs with a few other types (basketweave, ect). And yes, Marshall's standard grille cloth is thinner and lets more highs through, but they also used to use alot of basketweave too, and do offer it from time to time... actually, I think they may currently have that in the current lineup somewhere. And then there's the pinstripe fabric, but I'm not gonna open that can of worms.

My 1960A has the regular grille cloth, but my 1960B is a basketweave from 1998, which does cut back some highs. But it makes no difference, they're bright as f***. Also, my Recto 2x12s are a bit brighter than my Recto 4x12, which lends creedence to the 8 ohm vs 16 ohm theory. But I think the size of the cab makes a difference too. So, the Swamp Thang is the ticket for those cabs. It's a dull, muddy speaker with a big bottom end, the perfect juxtaposition to a rather bright Celestion.

 

[Boogie Bill]

Re: Gave my Mesa Rectifier 2x12s some more thump.

Try a Black Shadow MC-90

Those things are awesome, and play nice with V30s

K85/K100 and 65's would work great

My Mark V combo has the C-90. I bought a Mesa Wide-Body Closed-Back to pair with it, and in a flash of brilliance, ordered it with a V30. I liked this combination much better than the big Recto 412 V30 cab I tried. I've used my Mark III and Mark IV EVM combos with Mesa 112 EVM Thiele cabs for years, and while the EVMs are still King, the V30 and C90 combo in the Mark V is a good one.

Note that Mesa has some restrictions on what kind of enclosures it uses with the C90.

Bill

 

[dave74]

Re: Gave my Mesa Rectifier 2x12s some more thump.

My Mark V combo has the C-90. I bought a Mesa Wide-Body Closed-Back to pair with it, and in a flash of brilliance, ordered it with a V30. I liked this combination much better than the big Recto 412 V30 cab I tried. I've used my Mark III and Mark IV EVM combos with Mesa 112 EVM Thiele cabs for years, and while the EVMs are still King, the V30 and C90 combo in the Mark V is a good one.

Note that Mesa has some restrictions on what kind of enclosures it uses with the C90.

Bill

Besides being a great model-mix (c90/v30), just having the open-back and closed-back running together adds that extra "character" compared to just one or the other.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Re: Gave my Mesa Rectifier 2x12s some more thump.

Ah, but Mesa 2x12s have 16 ohm speakers. Also, you have a point about cab construction. Mesa uses, or at least used to use, 3/4" Baltic Birch, whereas Marshall uses 5/8" or 1/2" (depending on who you're talking to) Baltic Birch. But the grille cloths are a mixed bag. Mesa tends to use a heavy jute that has been treated (I've read that they no longer do that), but you can order their cabs with a few other types (basketweave, ect). And yes, Marshall's standard grille cloth is thinner and lets more highs through, but they also used to use alot of basketweave too, and do offer it from time to time... actually, I think they may currently have that in the current lineup somewhere. And then there's the pinstripe fabric, but I'm not gonna open that can of worms.

My 1960A has the regular grille cloth, but my 1960B is a basketweave from 1998, which does cut back some highs. But it makes no difference, they're bright as f***. Also, my Recto 2x12s are a bit brighter than my Recto 4x12, which lends creedence to the 8 ohm vs 16 ohm theory. But I think the size of the cab makes a difference too. So, the Swamp Thang is the ticket for those cabs. It's a dull, muddy speaker with a big bottom end, the perfect juxtaposition to a rather bright Celestion.

Mesa use 5/8" plywood for their Reco cabs. Don't know if they used thicker plywood in the past, but it's 5/8" now and has been for a while, AFAIK.

"They share the same 5/8" void-free birch ply as our Rectifier® cabinets to create the resonant signature and road-tough construction"

http://mesaboogie.com/support/out-of-production/lone-star-cabs.html

AFAIK, both Marshall and Mesa use the same plywood thickness. It's ENGL and Orange that use thicker plywood. However, it might be the same thickness, at least for the walls of the cab (not sure about the baffle), but I'm sure the plywood Mesa use (marine-grade) is stiffer/denser than the stuff Marshall uses.

The construction is also very different. If you open up a Marshall cab, it looks soooooo messy inside. Crooked screws, paint splatter, unintentionally slightly offset center block, etc. The also used MDF for the back pannel for a long time (it's plywood now, though, or at least mine is). A Mesa cab, on the other hand, is super tidy inside, and I'm sure that also contributes to the end sound of the cab.

 

[LesStrat]

Re: Gave my Mesa Rectifier 2x12s some more thump.

:bigthumb:

 

[Adieu]

Re: Gave my Mesa Rectifier 2x12s some more thump.

Mesa use 5/8" plywood for their Reco cabs. Don't know if they used thicker plywood in the past, but it's 5/8" now and has been for a while, AFAIK.

"They share the same 5/8" void-free birch ply as our Rectifier® cabinets to create the resonant signature and road-tough construction"

http://mesaboogie.com/support/out-of-production/lone-star-cabs.html

AFAIK, both Marshall and Mesa use the same plywood thickness. It's ENGL and Orange that use thicker plywood. However, it might be the same thickness, at least for the walls of the cab (not sure about the baffle), but I'm sure the plywood Mesa use (marine-grade) is stiffer/denser than the stuff Marshall uses.

The construction is also very different. If you open up a Marshall cab, it looks soooooo messy inside. Crooked screws, paint splatter, unintentionally slightly offset center block, etc. The also used MDF for the back pannel for a long time (it's plywood now, though, or at least mine is). A Mesa cab, on the other hand, is super tidy inside, and I'm sure that also contributes to the end sound of the cab.

MESA actually has/had some "science-y" cabs like the Thiele, semi opens, tuned, etc.

They may or may not be right with any given choice, but somebody at that company actually studied cab building and experimented.


Most other brands, surprisingly....didnt.

Marshall especially. Almost no bracing, cheap materials, very sloppy builds are typical for most of their products.

 

[Boogie Bill]

Re: Gave my Mesa Rectifier 2x12s some more thump.

Besides being a great model-mix (c90/v30), just having the open-back and closed-back running together adds that extra "character" compared to just one or the other.

Eggs-zactly!

Bill

 

[Gone_Shootin]

Re: Gave my Mesa Rectifier 2x12s some more thump.

Mesa use 5/8" plywood for their Reco cabs. Don't know if they used thicker plywood in the past, but it's 5/8" now and has been for a while, AFAIK.

"They share the same 5/8" void-free birch ply as our Rectifier® cabinets to create the resonant signature and road-tough construction"

http://mesaboogie.com/support/out-of-production/lone-star-cabs.html

AFAIK, both Marshall and Mesa use the same plywood thickness. It's ENGL and Orange that use thicker plywood. However, it might be the same thickness, at least for the walls of the cab (not sure about the baffle), but I'm sure the plywood Mesa use (marine-grade) is stiffer/denser than the stuff Marshall uses.

The construction is also very different. If you open up a Marshall cab, it looks soooooo messy inside. Crooked screws, paint splatter, unintentionally slightly offset center block, etc. The also used MDF for the back pannel for a long time (it's plywood now, though, or at least mine is). A Mesa cab, on the other hand, is super tidy inside, and I'm sure that also contributes to the end sound of the cab.

Yeah, they do now. I've been trying to find it, but I read an interview with Randall Smith awhile back about why they quit treating the jute for their grille cloths. He also mentioned at the same time that they switched from 3/4 to 5/8 for the sides. I remember something about being an effort to make the cabs less mid focused.

And as a side note, I added one more touch today. I bought a cheap foam mattress topper and cut out a chunk to put on one if the rear baffles. And again, I A/Bd the two cabs. The foam cancelled enough of the reflection wave that it did add some clarity, so I went ahead and did the other one too. Taking them to my drummer's house tonight for practice.

 

[dystrust]

Re: Gave my Mesa Rectifier 2x12s some more thump.

Well, if I could find Blackbacks around for a halfway fair price, I'd have some. But the only time I've seen any for sale around here, the owner wanted a small fortune. But yeah, I do lust for Blackbacks.

Where are you located in IA? I have a '78 Marshall 1982B cab loaded with original 30W Blackbacks that I'm planning to sell in the near future. If you'd be interested, PM me and maybe we can work out a place to meet since it's a bit impractical to ship. The cab's currently in storage near La Crosse, WI.