GEAR HELP! from the experts who gig (long)

[ksmith63]

(this will be a long post sorry)
Hey guys, soon school starts back up and my band will *hopefully* be ready to start gigging. Our singer/2nd guitar and drummer just got back from studying abroad in australia + we just got a good bass player. well actually he's the reincarnation of HENDRIX on guitar but loves to play and doesnt mind playing bass. we may also have a new singer/ keyboardist too.

so i really need advice from those of you who gig often on gear we should have going into a show. we have a lot of good stuff but i think we may need a few things to get a really good sound. advice on any of the categories would be great.

PA system:
currently i have a pair of 15" cerwin vega monitors being powered by a randall rp2/200 power amp. also have 2 folded horn 18s (cerwin vega) but those things are so massive that they arent practical. 400w bridged into 4 ohms. this seems like it would be loud enough but we do get lots of feedback so we dont turn it up and you cant really hear it. Also we would be running the keyboard directly through the pa.

should i get an anti-feedback processor or a good graphic eq and try to get rid of the squealing that way? also do i need more power? it seems like we have to max out the amp to get the vocals clear. im afraid of blowing the amp and then the speakers (those monitors are VERY good). do we need floor monitors?

BASS amp:
we dont have a bass amp. before we would use a mxr 'bass di+' pedal into another randall rp2/200 to one of the cerwin vega 18s. bass wouldnt really be loud enough and wouldnt sound very good either. i just ordered a custom 2x12 bass cabinet (will fit in my car) from emperor cabs and two eighteen sound 12" speakers (102 db sensitivity so they should be loud enough).

do you think i'll need an actual bass amp? i plan on getting an aguilar db750 so i dont want to buy something now and then have to get rid of it later. the cabinet is going to sound great and the mxr pedal does pretty good but i'm still worried about sound + volume. Sean is too good of a bass player to get lost in the mix.

GUITAR amps:
i'm using my budda and the other guitar player is using my line 6 duoverb. the duoverb doesnt sound amazing and the budda gets loud really fast. budda also has tubes.

i still have the power tubes that came with the budda so i can have those for backups. should i have backup preamp tubes? has anyone ever blown one of those? are attenuators good to gig with? or should i pull 2 power tubes and buy a 2x12 cabinet? (less volume and will fit in my car easier and wont drown out everyone else)

Guitars:
all the guitars + bass need setups. my schecter needs new bridge saddles and the ibanez needs to be recrowned. the schecter could also use a set of distortions.

i can tell when anyone is slightly out of tune so i'm always afraid other people will be able to also. do we absolutely need these things done before we play shows?

any other cables, batteries, strings advice would also be appreciated. if you've read this far you deserve some sort of medal.

 

[ksmith63]

Re: GEAR HELP! from the experts who gig (long)

oh yeah, i forgot to mention that we are also all broke college students....

 

[drew_half_empty]

Re: GEAR HELP! from the experts who gig (long)

i dunno if backup power tubes are gonna do you much good, unless your amp has some sort of autobias circuitry

but rewiring your cab with 4 jacks (2 ins, 2 outs, one pair for 2 speakers) may be a good idea

that way you have the option of running only 2 speakers & pulling 2 tubes. Or if one tube goes out you can pull that one & the corresponding one & run at half power safely with 2 speakers

I'd keep one, MAYBE 2 preamp tubes around just in case

2x12's are kind of uncommon in bass amps, but they can get the job done. If you want an actual amp that's cheap look into ashdowns. Cheap, loud, good sounds, lots of options

 

[wahwah]

Re: GEAR HELP! from the experts who gig (long)

OK, I'll have a shot.

PA systems are the sort of thing you should hire when required. What you have there is barely suitable for a vocal PA, ie, it's really only suitable for running vocals through in a small room. Many venues have in-house systems, but if you're going to play parties or venues without a system, you might be able to negotiate a fee that covers hiring a PA system just for the night. You would also want to include one send of foldback for the main vocalist as part of that system.

Bass players need bass amps. Whilst it is possible to DI the bass, it requires a very good monitoring system and someone who knows what they are doing to really make it work. That will also mean requiring another foldback send and suitable monitor for bass, because bass is very capable of killing monitors designed for vocals. The idea would be to have your entire stage backline as an independent, self sufficient setup, ie, individual amps for each player. The keyboardist can get away with a small mixer and powered monitor (eg, Mackie) but each guitar and the bass are much better off with their own amp.

It's worth having a spare preamp tube for any tube guitar amp, simply because they have a limited life, and you cannot predict when its time will be up. If it decides to go 15 minutes before you hit the stage, it will be worth the price of a 12AX7 to have a spare with you.

It is worth having the guitars and bass setup properly for intonation. Music is generally more powerful and enjoyable when it's in tune, as you know. It is one variable that you can minimize by getting the instruments set up to perform at their best. Absolutely necessary? Possibly not, but it is certainly preferable.

With regard to the volume of amps, here's a basic rule of thumb. As I mentioned before, it is important to have your backline functioning as an independent system. The second part of that involves one of the most important things in getting a band to sound good, and that is BALANCE. Here's the concept. Using the acoustic volume of the drum kit as your reference, you should aim for a setup where the amps for guitars and bass and the keyboardist's monitoring match the level of the drums, so that the band has a well balanced onstage mix. This is something you can aim for in rehearsal. When choosing amps for guitar and bass, this should be your target.

Hope this helps.



Cheers.........................wahwah

 

[ksmith63]

Re: GEAR HELP! from the experts who gig (long)

hey guys, thanks for the input

guitar amps- i never actually though about rewiring the 4x12. awesome.

bass- i probably should have been more specific. the bass IS NOT being ran through the p.a. i have a separate power amp for the bass and i was just running it full range through the sub (which is why it sounded like poo). i'll have to take a look at ashdown amps but i may just need to get an actual preamp and run that through the randall poweramp.
2x12s arent the ideal size for bass speakers but 1x15 or 2x10 would struggle with everything else in the band and anything much larger than that wont fit in my car. this is why i'm having a custom cabinet made. also my isolation cabinet holds a 12 so if i had a good bass amp i could use that to record.

pa- most bars here in knoxville either have really good pa systems or none at all. the 'music' scene here is basically any saturday during the fall when there isnt a home football game.
renting a p.a.? did this once before with a friends band and i really didnt like it. cost was $100 (for one night) and we got the biggest piece of junk peavey ever made.:banghead: two of the inputs didnt work and there was volume/feedback problems. i'd rather have something we are familiar with even if it is only good enough to run the vocals through.
did you guys have any experience with anti-feedback processors?

keyboard - i figured the keyboard needed its own amp but i didnt want to hear it. what type of speakers do we need for this? i've got 2 extra guitar speakers + another power amp. would that be ok or do we need something that covers a better frequency range. keyboard isnt a 'main' instrument so i'd hate to make the guy buy stuff we wont use much.


thanks for the replies so far

 

[i love everyone]

Re: GEAR HELP! from the experts who gig (long)

i'd say a 400-watt PA would be loud enough for small bar applications, but not much above that. i used to have a ton of trouble using my own PA for gigs because of feedback. i usually turn the input levels up until they show that they're receiving a signal, then turn all the EQ knobs all the way down and the master volume to around 5, then turn each EQ level up until it just starts to feed back, and keep it a little below there. if you've got good mics, feedback should be pretty easy to keep under control.

as far as bass goes, a 1x15 can keep up with most bands if the speaker is powerful enough. also, you can probably get a decent used bass head for around $200. i recently bought a Peavey Mark VI 250-watt head for $150. it's probably cheaper than buying a separate pre-amp and power amp, and is easier to set up.

hope some of that helps.

 

[arbiter]

Re: GEAR HELP! from the experts who gig (long)

i'd say you guys have averything you need to start gigging. tha PA you have would be enough to use as monitoring or to boost the small club's system. don't bother with guitars now unless it is really necessary, but ALWAYS use tuners and tune right before starting a gig, or if someone goes out of tune in the middle of the gig, make sure all of you tune your instruments again. most of the crowd won't notice your lack of sound quality per se (low end guitar amps or such), but everyone will notice if you're out of tune, even slightly.

 

[WhoFan]

Re: GEAR HELP! from the experts who gig (long)

get the axes fixed up for sure...

 

[Imp]

Re: GEAR HELP! from the experts who gig (long)

check out peavey bass heads, they're *dirt* cheap, loud, sound OK and they're famously reliable.

12'' speakers are fine for bass, as long as they're bass speakers inside. you'd be amazed how many pro bassists use 12's (steve harris being one off the top of my head)

feedback? feedback has to come from somewhere, and i have a hunch it's your mics/mic placement.. if you're playing out the bare minimum is a used shure SM58 IMHO.. what are you using? also be careful to always point the mic directly away from the monitor and any amps that are being P.A'd!

number one priority is getting the guitars in tune and setup though, i agree.. you can wrap a turd in silk and it still stinks

google stuff like intonation and truss rod adjustment, even if you buy a little pack of allen wrenches.. plenty to learn if you've not done it before!

tom